MyTurn

Anybody???

Anybody planning on fishing the open division?

My condolences, truly the end of an era. I never met Joe but did have the opportunity to "speak" with him several times on the web. I always marveled at the commitment he had to the fishery and his web site.

I was somewhat excited about the open division but now that I see the rules I am a lot less interested. I like the concept of a division that does not require an observer AND allows culling. What I don't like about the open division is: - It is really 2 seperate 1 day "derbies" rather than a bonifide 3rd division of the tournament - Having to be in line to weigh by 12 noon. Lets see, if I am fishing out of wilson and trailering my boat and fishing the usual waters for that time of year (say around 4 mile), then I need to pull lines about 10:15 to 10:30 to make the weigh in! Seems silly to me.

Vendor setup is from 8 to 9:45 Doors open at 10:00

I am going to be an optimist here and see the addition of the open division as an opportunity for us to vote with our feet and our wallets. As detailed in previous posts, my opinions run against having a observer in AM and most definitely against the killing of up to 9 (18") dinks per team. I know, this year Niagara is a week later and the fishing might be tough blah blah blah... fact is no one can predict how it will be. SO... I see the OPEN division as an opportunity to vote on the direction that we the paying customers believe the tournament should take in the future. If the open division is very successful at the expense of the AM division, well then the writing is on the wall. So as they say in Chicago, St, Louis and many other places, get out there vote, vote early, and vote often. And thanks to the organizers for giving us the choice. Peter Kelly

a 1099 must be issued for payments over $600 and they are supposed to be sent no later than Jan 31st.

Did you get your 1099 yet? Still waiting for mine so I can file

I seem to recall that too Greg, though can't remember the specifics.

I don't disagree that the observer CAN HELP maintain the integrity of the tournament. However to say that it GUARANTEES the integrity of the tournament is just not so per my actual experiences. Also, to say that that having observers is the ONLY way to ensure integrity of a tournament is to say that tounaments that don't have them (such as the Scotty) do not have integrity, which is a statement that many people including myself would disagree with. The observer issue crops up every year when the fishing is done and we get bored. The culling issue was a big deal at Niagara this year because lots of us got stuck with dinks and were done by 9 AM. (Next year could easily be different due to Niagara being 1 week later) Getting back to the original purpose of this discussion, how to increase AM participation, I think several things should be kept in mind: #0 Think of entrants as customers. #1 Don't alienate existing customers (past participants) #2 Rules STABILITY. Don't radicaly change them every year to find the magic bullet or chances are you will do #1 (above) #3 Look at what other tournaments do rules wise and consider their experiences. (How the heck do the Michigan tournaments get so many entrants?) #4 make gradual or small rules adjustments based on widespread gathering of input from existing customers and potential customers. Turn a discussion like this into a carefully constructed poll, and run it here, on GLA, Spoonpullers, and elsewere. Also have clubs such as LOTSA run the poll at meetings or on our web site.

It doesn't. In 7 years of fishing the Niagara Pro Am I have had an observer that was so drunk he slept all day (until he finally puked), and an observer who did not know a Salmon from a carp. I have also had several observers who took their job very seriously and did an outstanding job. Point is, the observer thing is a crap shoot, and as long as there is no quality control of the observers then their presence guarantees nothing.

From original post: Sorry if I hurt your feelings but I thought based on the above that PEOPLE'S OPINIONS were what you were looking for. If only those in the "inner circle" are qualified to express an opinion in this matter, WTF is the purpose of this thread? BTW my name is Peter Kelly, I see yours is "Rod"

o kay... whatever you say (cuz I really have no clue what you are saying). I was merely suggesting a poll to help compile the results of this now 4 page and counting thread so that those who do not have all afternoon to fish through the whole thing with pencil and paper at hand can easily see what the consensus is. FWIW I think going to 3 divisions as described on the first page of this thread is a terrible idea. More complication is not what is needed.

My vote is to allow culling for Niagara and eliminate the observer for day 1, and put observers on the top 10 boats for day 2. Most BBS software enable putting up a poll, maybe the moderator of this forum could do one for the issues that have been raised in this thread.

CBish: One thing your analysis leaves out is the mortality rate from stocking to maturity. I don't know what it is but believe that it is huge (i. e. a very small percent of stocklings get to maturity, or even teenager status). Dp: everyone had the opportunity to fish to the best of their ability within the structure of the rules. Apparently some did a better job than others at targeting bigger fish and keeping the dinks off. I am sure that some of this was just the luck of the draw. Hopefully the experience of this tournament will help to evolve and improve the rules as is being discussed on this and other threads. All in all, too many fish is a good problem to have!

I would go with 2 or 3 and knock out the background Jim.

I'll add to that: 1) Dawn Wilson who runs the Newfane Marina and does all kinds of work for the pro am. AND 2) All the men and women who put in countless hours on all of the Pen Rearing projects. The Olcott pen rearing project, headed up by LOTSA members and heavily supported by the club, is I believe a major reason why there are "miles and miles" of 18" dink salmon out there. Those dinks that drove us nuts this year will be kicking our butts in 2010.

Actually it wasn't. There was no option for the committee to allow culling on a tournament by tournament basis.

I posted this on the Poll thread but maybe it belongs here: While the fact that there are a ton of 2nd year fish out there (these 18"dinks were pen reared or stocked in 07) bodes well for 09 and 2010, it is abominable that we have to kill so many for the sake of a fishing contest. There was a HUGE consensus among the people I spoke with at the weigh in that this is wrong and something needs to change. The most common thoughts I heard were: 1) Change the min for all fish to 25". All species (including atlantic) would share a common min length. - OR - 2) Allow culling by releasing a fish by the side of the boat (NOT netting, measuring, and dumping) Once the fish hits the deck it must be kept if it is legal. Releasing by the side of the boat would greatly improve the fish's odds of survivability. I realize that there is a school of thought that all 4 tournaments must have the same rules, and that this option is not a good one for the East end when the fish are deep and the water is warm on top. SOOOO, the way around that is you make this rule optional based on the Tournament committee's discretion at each of the tournaments. At the captain's meeting the committee announces if the "culling" rule is in effect or not. - OR- 3) Increase the "captain's discretion" buffer from 1/2" to maybe 4 or 5 inches After thinking about this more I really like #3. As Paul pointed out it would make the Captain's decisions even more interesting and would still work in years when the fishing is tough.

Sorry to hear about the wreck but look on the bright side, you can get another boat, you can't get another you.

We ran mostly flies on Sat and still took 2 dinks we had to keep. Sunday we started with all flies and 2 out of the first three were legal dinks. We wound up taking our 2 best on spoons. We were done by 9:15 both days, so for a 2 day tounament we only got to fish about 6 hrs. While the fact that there are a ton of 2nd year fish out there (these 18"dinks were pen reared or stocked in 07) bodes well for 09 and 2010, it is abominable that we have to kill so many for the sake of a fishing contest. There was a HUGE consensus among the people I spoke with at the weigh in that this is wrong and something needs to change. The most common thoughts I heard were: 1) Change the min for all fish to 25". All species (including atlantic) would share a common min length. - OR - 2) Allow culling by releasing a fish by the side of the boat (NOT netting, measuring, and dumping) Once the fish hits the deck it must be kept if it is legal. Releasing by the side of the boat would greatly improve the fish's odds of survivability. I realize that there is a school of thought that all 4 tournaments must have the same rules, and that this option is not a good one for the East end when the fish are deep and the water is warm on top. SOOOO, the way around that is you make this rule optional based on the Tournament committee's discretion at each of the tournaments. At the captain's meeting the committee announces if the "culling" rule is in effect or not. - OR- 3) Increase the "captain's discretion" buffer from 1/2" to maybe 4 or 5 inches

I would like to express my thanks in advance to the people and businesses behind this effort. Anything that brings more prizes, sponsors, and attention to the Pro Am can only be a positive thing in the long run.

What is the deal with you guys complaining about the "bonus Laker" allowed in AM? For years the rule was you could have 3 Lakers in your AM box, now that they only allow 1 there seems to be an issue with "having to target lakers" WTF? I don't get it.

LOTSA is hosting a "Tournament within a Tournament" at the Niagara Pro Am June 2-3. Everyone on your team (except your observer) must be a LOTSA member and your team must be entered the Amateur Division to be eligible for prizes. Entry fee is $ 40 per boat and payback is 200% of the entry. Thats right, LOTSA is matching the entry fee dollar for dollar. Prizes will be paid to the top 3 finishing LOTSA boats, (based on a minimum of 5 boats entered). If you are not a member of LOTSA this is a great reason to join plus you will also be eligible to enter the LOTSA Summer Tournament set for July 21st out of Olcott. Full details are at: http://www.lotsa.org/2007%20LOTSA%20Pro ... 0Rules.htm

2003 Carolina Classic 28 for sale The Carolina Classic 28 is a sturdy, strictly-business fisherman with clean lines, and a deep-V hull. Construction is solid fiberglass, and her 10'6'' beam results in a very roomy cockpit. It has a surprisingly complete cabin below with a big V-Berth, stand-up head with shower, a compact galley with corain countertop, microwave, and teak-framed cabinetry. Easy-access engine room (the entire bridge deck raises at the push of a button.) The cockpit has plenty of room and includes a pair of in-deck fish boxes, gunnel rod holders, a transom livewell, and fresh and raw water washdowns. Additional features include side-dumping exhausts, wide side decks, high gunwales, and a well-arranged helm with flush-mounted electronics. This is a fresh water boat that has NEVER been in salt water. Options/Equipment: - Twin Volvo 375 HP straight inboard gas engines - 290 gallon fuel capacity - 30 gallon fresh water - 25 gallon holding tank - Fiberglass Hardtop with electronics box - Simpson Lawrence Anchor Windlass w/ Delta Plow Anchor - Furuno 582 Color LCD Fishfinder - Raymarine RL70CRC color chartplotter featuring C-Map NT charting and radar overlay - 4kw Raymarine Radar dome - Autohelm ST5000 hydraulic auto pilot - Standard Intrepid VHF with loudhailer - Sony AM FM CD with cockpit and cabin speakers, and remote - Hydraulic Trim Tabs - Swim Platform w/ Fold-Down Swim Ladder - Teak & Holly Sole in Cabin - Upgraded Fabrics on V-Berth - Teak Overhead Hanging Rack For Cuddy Table - 8 overhead rod racks in cabin - Corian counter top, microwave and Norcold refrigerator/freezer - Hot Water Heater (Flow-Through) - Vacuflush head with holding tank and macerator - Port side huge tackle center with drawers - Starboard side seating & storage - Cockpit Coaming Bolster Pads (White) - Spreader Lights, Windshield Wipers, - VC Offshore Black Bottom Paint (2 Coats Sprayed On) - 10 Taco Gold Rocket Launchers - 4 pivoting vector rod holders - 2 swivel base mounts for cannon downriggers - 2 huge in floor fish boxes with macerator pumps - Fresh/Raw Water Washdown, 30amp Shore Power - Fresh water use only on the Great Lakes History: Meticulously cared for and in exceptional condition. 500 hours at least 50% of which are slow troll hours. Freshwater Boat Only! Priced to sell at $ 117,900. (716) 542-2791 evenings or send me an email More pictures at http://www.competitiondata.com/index_miscpages/cc28_4sale.htm