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look guys, unfortunately with the current pro/am format observers are necessary to a point. believe me my team was not fond of them especially after providing a reliable and responsible observer only to have our assigned observer show up late and drunk off his fanny throwing up or sleping all day, only to wake up when we asked him to document fish. back then you did not have to document waypoints, these folks didn't know where we were, we could have been in scotchbonnet for all he knew. we did report it to the "commitee" and they addressed it at the captains meeting. i haven't fished the event for many years but i would be comfortable assuming that these types of incidents are still occuring. as some here have indicated and i absolutley agree, the observers don't make that big of a difference when it comes right down to it. weather it be a border infraction or an undersized fish, if you have fished this event especially in niagara you have had the opportunity to witness one of these entertaining expositions. the outcome? depends on who you are, who you know on the commite! this often occured right in front of the gallery so all could witness. so, observers are unfortunately needed with the current rules mainly to keep the honest people honest. i thought the whole theroy behind this thread was rule changes? take a look back here and rethink why many folks in the know believe the rules were changed again in the am division, mees thinks a particular am boat or two were in the crosshairs of the commitee and they just didn't have a pair big enough to make the appropriate rule changes. again sorry for my posts but enough is enough. imho if this scotty event wasn't breathing down the back of the pro/am it would have been status quo. Dave

one can only imagine what the comitte is attempting to come up with. we have heard of a new division for the amatuers and we have also heard of the "possibility" of a new tournament on monday with a (in my opinion) pseudo number of boats commited to participating. (just what the fishery needs more dead fish!)What we haven't heard about is what most are asking for, RULE CHANGES. i for one just wonder why this "new" tournament following the pro/am is only being held in oswego and niagara? could it be that these are also two ports where the upcoming scotty has listed as venues? why wouldnt they have them at the oak or sodus? hmmmm... sounds like a possible diversion to me. (HOPEFULLY i am wrong)! i will reinforce that i am a former pro/am participant that fished the first ones in niagara and oswego and for many years following until the the frustrations set in. i do have a team and we ARE going to fish these scotty's! if they are half as good as what many of the reputable posters on this site indicate this coming tournament season should be interesting and exciting. as the other post informally announcing the king of the lake series states 20k as the guarnteed first place my team is looking forward to compete in a tournament with fair and consistent rules for ALL with the opportunity to win the big cash payout as an amature boat. one can also only imagine what the boys in wilson are going to come up with when hosting this event! cmon spring! Dave

great info. finally something positive and participant friendly. make it 38 teams comitted! 20k cash for first place in this economy is nothing short of spectacular! if done right this event will be the premier event on lake ontario. this should get interesting, i am going to make some popcorn and see where this post goes. come on spring! Dave

harbour sixty steakhouse or hy's steakhouse are very nice if you enjoy steakhouses. they are a bit pricey but excellent food and atmospehere. hope this may help...dave

get it wet - you are correct that for most the open communication really doesn't help..... and usually hinders.......but for "some" (and you know who they are) that do get reliable information it will make or break theirs and your placing. last year at niagara is a perfect example especially on the second day! would many of those boats that had good fishing east of olcott on saturday made it ALL the way to the river on sunday without reliable information from their "network'? probably not!!!!! so, put yourself in this situation....your team is in the money or close. you make the calculated decision to head to the river on the second day based on YOUR prefishing and do well....the guys that went the other way because they did well there the first day have tough fishing, whats the last thing you want to see???? the competetion,,,,,correct??????? they would have to make the decision on their own to risk running down to the river blindly. since this rule was changed there is no strategy......"lets keep intouch with the network and hand them the program if they are struggling. we do want to win but we wouldn;t want to step on any toes either right????? so you who pre fished your ass off and had a program were just knocked out of the MONEY by someone in the network BECAUSE OF OPEN COMMUNICATION!!!!! makes sense to me. just on of the many rule changes i have seen over the years to welll..... i will say it!!!!! perhaps stack the deck???????? sorry again for my rant but lets really look at the picture here. and again i will say it, funny that all of a sudden the commite wants suggestions when they COULD lose a number of boats to the scotty especially if it is run as good as some of the posters have stated! dave

i have been following this thread with plenty of interest, we fished the niagara county pro/am every year rochester and oswego. we participated in the first one in niagara, monroe and oswego counties and fished them for many years watching the changes occur. my friends and i chose to not fish them years ago for many reasons relating to what we saw/considered undesireable rules changes. i am not sure what i say matters here because we don't fish them anymore BUT we dont fish them for a reason. i must say that i get what atomik is saying and agree with him 100%. it really doesn't matter WHAT we think regarding rules changes because the fellows that make/change the rules have agendas and stakes in prize money when fishing these "tournaments". it is honarable what the guys from lotsa stand behind and that they take a role in attempting to better this thing in niagara. if i am not mistaken.... representatives from lotsa sit or sat on the comittee a while back and really had no impact? imho.... their time spent in discussions with the so called commite is moot, the commitee listens the reps from losta leave and nothing changes unfortunately. we feel that the open communication rule ruined this "tournament" for many while almost guaranteeing others a place in the top 10 and at least winning some money. there has never been a consistent explanation regarding the decision relating to this and that is not a good thing! just another reason to have an observer, when the teams board the boat in the morning all cell phones and pagers go into a zip-loc bag and the observer holds until the end of the day.....its really quite simple. fool proof???? no! you will always have cheaters no matter what. brings me to my next point........ i and my team mates have personally witnessed basically what we would call the good ole boy network relating to observers, depending on who the team was or whom they had relationships with generally dictated how the comitte would sway regarding potential or full blown protests no matter what the observer says. not gonna go there though! as for amature monies going into the pro division i have been wondering where that extra money came from for the "extra pot" that was announced on the last day of niagara last year. funny that the commitee is all of a sudden interested in listening with the scotty tournament knocking at the door. it is a reality but very unfortunate that politics plays such a role in this "tournament". i have to say that i am sure that there are some fair and honest volunteers on the commitee/commitees and i am sure the participants appreciate your efforts but one must ask themselves if what they say really matters? anyhow gonna get off my pedestal now and take my bashing now as i did last spring. there is a reason why we don't fish the pro/ams but WILL fish some of the scottys. and btw the scotty is just as much of a tournament as the pro/am so leave those comments out.....been there heard that! dave

just left the lake wilson/olcott area and she is looking great. doesn't appear to have upwelled/flipped and the water color looks good as far north as i can see. should be ok from what it look like. looking forward to fishing the next cpl days. dave

we are hoping to be up for some of the derby, just trying to get my crew to agree on the dates. Good luck when you are there! Dave

Launched out of the state park and was on the water by 5:45am. Quite bumpy on the way out so we set down a bit west on the 26 line and trolled north. Second rod down fired with a 22lb mature that hit a kevorkian Mag stinger, very dark fish i might add! A bit later our 10 color fired with another mature, this fish was on a white glow spinny with a greem atommik, nice fish also..... about 19lbs. we did a few more circles in that area and caught 2 smaller 6lb kings and decided to continue north. our north troll was quite productive catching and releasing 11 more fish all steels, biggest being about 14lbs an we dropped what appeared to be two other matures. spoons and attractors seemed to share equal action with the kevorkian and hawg wild doing the damage for the spoons and the T 100 atommik being the bewst fly on thw white spinny, it was alos working on a trash can dodger(until we broke it off) we worked between the 50 - 54 lines and fished out to the 29 line. all in all it was another productive day out west and we look forwqrd to fishing there the next cpl weeks during the loc. good luck to all. dave

I am confused!!!!!! Been fishing the south shore in the Western Basin for more yearsthan I care to discuss and the upwellings/rollovers occur with Easterly/Northeasterly winds. South winds are quite favorable here and usually will not effect temps negatively. Dave

Cold water Affair - That is a great idea, a larger minimum length! Like you said, during many of the years especially with niagara you would have no problem keeping those smaller fish. guess nothing is ever perfect. it did sound like most had a great time just were not pleased with having to come in at 7 -8 am. your idea is a good one for sure! Dave.

Traveling man - I must agree with you on that! Aside from the obvious reasons of conservation and letting those guys swim for another day (an obvious risk to your score in some years due to poor fishing) I would be a bit aggravated if i spent the money to get in, travel, lodginging, food and of course time. To have my fishing overwith an hour after i start due to another rule that has been put in place for what reason? Probably why my friends and i have elected to not fish this event anymore, too many fuzzy gray rules to contend with. as i hung around the weigh- ins to catch up with old friends it is apparent that this specific rule did not go over very well with many. Should probably be revisited? Congrats to all the winners and the participants as well! Good luck next weekend and see ya at the oak. Dave.

left the fort at approx 5am and ran to the drop to fish west marked a few fish and bait from 45 ft out to 250ft. we ended up with 11 fish a few trout 2 nice kings and the rest were shakers. Best bait was stinger nbk dowm 45 and a easter egg yeck. divers went with atomics behind a white spin doctor with yellow tape on it 180 back set on 2. we had more action across the border with the two bigger fish and we had three others on that we were not able to boat due to fishing partner wit a thumb problem.....used to fishing walleyes i guess. cant stop these guys. lead core was dead. heading out of olcott saturday and heading east as we heard that the fishing has been a bit better past the plant. who knows. dave.......

Capt. Bob - as i indicated earlier, i mean no disrespect to anyone. and by the way i do still have a boat and enjoy my time on it when i am able to use her. that said....i did not realize that you needed a boat to be interested in this topic or to reply. i am sure...... with all due respect... that i have donated enough of my monies over the years to have a say. i am also confident in the knowledge i have regarding the politics of this tournament across the lake just read the various posts. i personally don't see any reason for the organizers to post payouts until they are sure of the prize structure? i don't see anybody else doing it. like i stated earlier if it is just the payout you are truly looking for maybe contacting the organizers would be the best more efficient way to retrieve your answer? since i am being called out unfortunately i will say i think that may not be the case. likewise on the last communication. good luck.....dave

reelxite - i understand why tournaments wait until the last minute to announce their prize structures although i appreciate the refresher. as you mentioned that is when they have all of the info. i was not going to stick my nose in this again but will and i guess my problem is with your statement in regards to the announcement and possible fiscial growth. again i am not the britest gentelman nor do i mean any harm but...... why must you even give the impression or assume that they are afraid to make it public? so rather than assuming..... could it be possible that their financial pool may be growing like the other tournaments? maybe not? who knows?????reviewing past posts regerding the salmon slam i have noticed one specific thing and that is an email address and/or phone numbers from the organizers that states any questions feel free to contact them........ maybe it would be better to contact them personally regarding concerns or suggestions you may have rather than using this board which will cause negativity? i am aware of where you dock as i to was there for a number of years until my old boat became to much for a couple of old guys to handle. that is what confuses me the most..... there is an opportunity for your team and all of the teams in wilson to increase their winnings. if it is the salmon slam you do not like or your preception of why it is taking place and you are staying in wilson i would just suggest not entering. admittedly i am niaeve to the politics that are taking place regarding this you get bet your last lure i am still sharp enough to see whats going on behind the scenes. respectfully.....dave

Ray.... i am sure you are correct regarding the integrity of the members on this site as well as all fisherman in general. again i am not trying to stir poop here in any way. the unfortunate thing here is the way things are seeming to be potraied. i am not sure of the changing of ports issue you mentioned because the last time i launched out of wilson i believe i did see some of the tournament boats already at beccue marina? like i said......... i am not here to stir poop and have been entertained as well as learning a great deal from the info on this board. also i continue to have great respect for the sucessful capts that fish this lake with bob being a frontrunner in many ways. so..... i wonder what the difficulty is. as i sit here and digest this i don't see any challenge as you described. it appears to be it is what it is, nothing more nothing less. as a customer i would be greatful to have the opportunity to fish for extra money for free. i agree with many that it is a great incentive and of course if i was still fishing the tournament i would discuss with the team to consider wilson. but a challenge.... i guess i am a bit nieve to whats going on then, so perhaps i should shut my mouth. Dave........ home port where ever the the good reports are coming from.

Just an observation here as I continue to watch the internal politics unfold regarding this function. I must first say forgive me if I step on any toes as I truly may be misinterpeting the context of mr. songins post!!! Also I must say that I applaud the Businesses that have contributed and worked hard to obtain sponsors for their event! But, if I am not mistaken, the salmon slam is giving away money and prizes without requiring an entery fee....... correct? Its my understanding...... they are saying that this will be $10000.00 in cash and prizes, similiar to any tournaments advertising on any of the great lakes. The question I would like to ask here is what does it matter what the payous will be? I must add that I have fished the Pro/Ams in both divisions on many teams as a participant and an observer so i do have some experience and you really don't know what their exact payout will be until the night of the observers meeting. Correct? I am not sure if i made my point with this post but in my humble opinion nobody is forcing anybody to fish in the salmon slam the only requirement is that you are signed up gor the pro -am and fish out of wilson. doesnt seem to be to hard of a decision.....or does it?