Raaven

Set the legislation, charge the fee, and the law abiding out of state captain will pay the fee, as he or she already does, concerning licensing, drug testing, liability insurances, once needed twic cards, income taxing, etc....  The costs associated with another license is really not that big of an added deal, as I see it, it would just be handed down to the client. Although, as already reported in this thread, I also believe your bigger problem revolves around a number of non-licensed captains who are bringing their people up from their home states and charging the same type of operating fee's, on a lesser scale than the licensed captain, under the table to offset their own expenses for their recreational activities. They would not pay your added out of state fee, to begin with, and there are a considerable number of boats, around Lake O, who I believe would fall into this category, my opinion. 

You are correct.

Added legislation with guaranteed fees for the law abiding people...But no guarantees of increased enforcement at all, just hopes and prayers the authorities go out there and do their job for a change. 

It's such a frustrating topic. Back when I was President of LOTSA and one of NY's reps to the Great Lakes Sportfishing Counsel, I traveled extensively and lobbied to establish both rules and empowerment to enforce them, yet here we are some 30-35 years later and still can't seem to get anything meaningful accomplished.

 

The last time we were able to get all the key interests on the same page, we banned commercial gill nets in NY waters of lake Erie laying the foundation for the fishery we enjoy today. Unfortunately without a grassroots effort no meaningful change will come to fruition.

Yes, it is!

Ask any Charter Captain how many times they have been approached and asked for their credentials by Authorities?

 In 28 years in this industry and over 5000 charters operated, I personally have been asked ONCE.

I would bet that is one more time than most my peers with more time and more trips than I.....

  Not only is it frustrating, It's DISGUSTING, how bad the lack of enforcement actually is out there....

We fished the Canadian fence line off rochester from mid July thru late august and the kings where out there the whole time mixed in (deeper) than the steelhead. Bait was always present and the water temp didn't fluctuate that much as the inside and mid waters did. Some days 60' down other days 100' but the kings stayed there in same few waypoints the entire time. Most days we never set a line or trolled shallower than 425 feet of water!

We burned a lot of fuel but that's where the fish where. Talked with a bunch of boats and always same report.... King here or there, one good day on them then three bad days. Not the case way offshore. Different world.

When in doubt or searching go north lol

Same here. We didn't have a huge king bite all summer, like other years. But every time we ran way offshore this summer we caught kings. Consistent. They were out there, and the bulk of the fishermen who said they "went offshore", were only half way to the fish and waypoints we were working. 7 miles out will get you 400 plus feet of water...but we were going 15 miles to start and trolling beyond that even. Profits are down, due to excessive fuel consumption, but clients rebooked. It's the same even RIGHT NOW. Fish in the pack of boats in the skinny water and get 5-9 bites on a good day, less every other...Run 16 miles NW and get 15-20 bites, catch the same 4-5  mature salmon as you do inside, plus  the same amount of 2 year olds, plus all the steelhead you want.....You just have to burn the gas. 

See we have a much bigger problem on the Upper & Lower Niagara River, any Canadian can just say they are a guide and they do not need the safety equipment or insurance and they fish N.Y. waters competing with you at $150 charters while your trying to get $400.

Then every walleye Tourney on Lake Erie in NY Waters there are 5 to 7 Ohio Charter Boats working fishing with clients in those tournaments.Chautauqua Lake now has more out of state guides working there then local.Without a Non Resident License fee those caught guiding without a license will only get a warning, with the Non Resident Charter Captian License in effect they could be fined as much as $10,000.00 for working without a license.They could no longer advertise chartering in NY State if they do not have the Non Resident Charter License.

I understand your frustration...

I still don't comprehend how making a new law, and new fees will solve these issues..

ONLY THE LAW ABIDING PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW THE LAWS AND PAY THE FEES,  criminals don't follow laws..they are criminals. Without the law enforcement ENFORCING the laws, your problem will still exist! 

If the law enforcement was out there RIGHT NOW, enforcing the laws already in place, your problem would be solved as well? 

There are fines in place in New York state for guiding without a license. THEY ARE NOT BEING ENFORCED. 

The state of Michigan also has a Charter Sport Trolling License for Non Residents for $80.Seems like we are the only state where Non Resident Charter Captians can operate for Free!If we get this Non Resident Charter Fishing License passed it may also mean Ontario Canadian Guides may have to purchase this license to operate in NY State border waters as well!

Larry, I applaud your devotion to our industry! I know you only mean well, with all your political endeavors. 

I do have a couple thoughts on all this though, that I hope you don't take as opposing any of your efforts.

To begin with, I don't comprehend how increasing fees are going to help those of us in business?  If a Non resident legit business has to pay increased fees and purchase more licenses to continue doing business...that's what they will do, pay the fees! They are not just going to "go away", stop doing business, increasing opportunity for those that are residents. The only one who is going to benefit with these new laws and fees is, the one collecting the fees. 

Remember, LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, are the only ones that adhere to the LAW. 

Wouldn't our group efforts be better directed at trying to make the law enforcement ,ACTUALLY ENFORCE THE LAWS already in place? 

If the USCG, just walked down the docks and asked for captains licenses, and made sure all crew members aboard these charters were properly registered in the maritime consortium, and arrest some of these "fly by night" operations, and ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY WRITTEN, and collected the hefty fines attached to these violations........the end result of what I believe you are looking for, would be a reality. 

Just try to get the Coast Guard to enforce their commercial laws.....

We're out here fishing near all the other boats an listening to others catching on the radio while we are out here catching absolutely nothing, don't know what we're doing wrong

Don't feel bad....there are SO MANY details involved in successful trolling for lake Ontario salmon...I'm sure you are only a few thousand $'s in equipment and a few hundred hours of experience away from catching them consistently...

If it makes you feel any better, those guys you hear on the radio catching them, if they were on your boat working with what you have..they would be lucky to catch one as well. 

About all the advice I can give you for today is, DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. What you are doing is not working...change speed, direction, lures, depth, set back, etc etc etc.....change things until something works, and take note of what detail made the difference.  

Thanks that makes sense! Now where can I find a map that shows coordinates in decimals haha

Minutes.......Lat/Long minutes. 

So help me understand the slices a bit better... looking at slice C, it starts at 43.3, which is pretty much the canadian border?

No...  notice that is 43.3    NOT  N  43 30' .076    That chart is using latitude in decimals of degrees, not in degrees, minutes, seconds. 

For instance.... The center of the lake/ Canada border on my GPS on the boat is  N 43  37'  51 .97  read properly, latitude North 43 degrees, 37 minutes 51.97 seconds... I would refer to it as...THE THIRTY SEVEN LINE. 

On these NOAA charts....the same line is in plain degrees in decimals..    43.631 

Raaven,

 

Yes we know there are plenty of muskies there (relatively speaking) but the point about this post is has anyone has got any in the central basin US side primarily around Rochester east or west. We know the Niagara and St Lawrence have them as well as eastern Lake O. We're talking Oak Orchard to Sodus area. That is the big question and mystery. At this point its only heresay.

With the salmon fishing as slow as it's being reported, I suggest everyone go musky fishing in that area.    Put a couple dozen boats trolling all day everyday for about a month ...and see what gets caught!   

Hi EsoxAC3,

 

I've been going up to the islands with the family every year for the last 30+ years now.  After the family sold our cottage up there, we usually stay and fish in Alex Bay or Clayton.  Many of those years we spent pike/bass fishing or off the docks with worms.  These days I try to carry on that family tradition with my own as I keep my boat up in Clayton and will fish from there up to A-Bay. 

 

In my own opinion and experiences (and I am by no means an expert so please take all my thoughts with a grain of salt), there is a population of muskies that never leaves the river and there is a greater population that migrates out to the big pond and back in again in the fall.  It's not to say you can't catch them in July/Aug but it is certainly more difficult.  If you haven't ever fished up there before, I'd highly recommend hiring a guide first time out like Capt. Bob Walters / Capt. Darryl of Water Wolf Charters (who both gave great presentations at Muskies Inc. meeting last year).

 

This past weekend I had the family up there and we had a chance to visit the "Musky Hall of Fame" museum up in Clayton.  It's a pretty cool exhibit if you have ever never been and fun for the family.  Admission is free and I make a little donation each time I visit.  My daughter gets really excited to see the replica mounts

 

 

 

Saturday we were out on the water watching the boat races they had going on - boy were those boats loud!     After that, I was ready to for some quiet time and momma got to do some worm fishing while daddy played with baby for a bit.  After we went through our allotment of worms for the day, mommy got to play with baby and daddy got to try a couple casts.  I only had about an hour to fish that day but it wasn't long before I felt that unmistakable tug on the end of your line that feels like you snagged bottom.  I knew what it was right away, just didn't know how big till it came fully air born out of water a couple times.  As mommy held baby at front of the boat, Daddy tried to figure out how to net fish one-handed.  Lucky for me I dipped net in the water and fish swam herself into it - stroke of luck there. 

 

After a quick picture, we released her back and she swam right away strong.  Water temp was 68 degrees.

 

 

 

She was even kind enough to leave one of her teeth in my solid oak wood lure...  I should donate this lure to the musky museum with the tooth in it still. 

 

 

So EsoxAC3, to sum up my answer to your question, I'd say that summer time musky fishing up in the Islands will greatly test your patience but reward your determination, with an emphasis on greatly testing your patience.  To go days or weeks without seeing anything in the summer is normal.  I got lucky.  If you are looking for more "action", then I would try pike or bass fishing up there.  We got some nice pike last weekend we were up there and you can catch them consistently every time out. 

 

 

Lastly, I'd be remiss if I didn't give a special thank you to my wife for allowing me to keep my family traditions alive and for playing along so willingly even though I know she would probably much rather be out on a wine tour or shopping at the mall.

 

Good luck to each of you this year!

 

Cheers,

Chad

      Great fish Chad!  Congratz!   Thanks for sharing. Glad she released well for you. By all means stop down to Save The River and apply for your musky print. They are really nice to frame and hang on the wall near the replica mount.   I don't know if I would give that lure to the museum, or not? I might just retire it, and put it in the mouth of the mount, to go with the whole story!  We have a few musky teeth stuck in the wall down in the cabin of The Waterwolf, that were given up by released fish. I hear Capt Rich Clark has quite the collection of them, from all the musky he has caught and released in his lifetime up there?

We are still finishing up our salmon season down here, but can't wait to get up there and hunt for the next World Record musky, that we all know lives in the mighty St.Lawrence.  

See you then.  

                        Capt. Darryl Raate  

They are out there.

I believe one of the reasons very few are caught by people trolling for trout and salmon is.......While trolling for trout and salmon, our presentation is too small, and focusing on the wrong water temp.? 

Capt. Dave Wilson caught one a few seasons ago in front of Oswego.

Capt, Vince Pierleone caught one off Nine mile point/ Mexico Bay area, quite a few years ago....

That new IGFA catch and release World Record we caught last season, was in Cape Vincent, on a returning troll from the Lake Ontario side of Wolf Island. 

We catch quite a few out there towards Grenadier/ Fox Islands, as well as over by Amherst and Garden Islands on the Canada side.....all areas more Lake Ontario, than St.Lawrence River. 

Here is the thing. Musky are rare, even when targeting them.

Run a bunch of 8 - 13 inch swim baits at high speeds for about 40-80 hours in prime musky feeding habitat....and see if you get a strike?   Then just maybe you will get lucky and catch one!

But don't give up there.....We trolled 600 hours last fall, for 9 musky on, and only landed 5 of them! 

That is Lake Ontario musky fishing. 

Lemon Pledge Ingredients:

Naphtha, petroleum, light alkylate 5%-10% 
Polydimethylsiloxanes (Silicon oil) 5%-10%
Water 70%-85% 
Butane 1% -5%
Isobutane 1% - 5%
Propane 1% - 5% 


Source: Consumer Product Information Database


Plexus ingredients:
Alipathic petroleum distillates 23%
Isobutane 12%
Propane 3 %

Source: Plexus Plastic Cleaner MSDS Page 1 of 3 Material Safety Data Sheet

New to using copper. Using a 5' flouro leader at the end of the copper. Is this too short?

Sent from my iPad using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Is it catching fish?

I know my copper leaders are longer...

All the browns you could want inside of 50 fow....steelies from 300 and out..nice nest of kings in 450-500 fow in front of olcott...  

Ok, don't even try the pledge....

Yes, plexus works....But the price of it doesn't mean you will use it as often . 

We have ORIGINAL Isinglass on the Waterwolf....Been using lemon pledge on it once or twice a week for 22 years...No yellowing, still soft and subtle, rolls up and stores like a dream. 

Try getting those results with the Plexus...    

Talk to anybody who maintains a big sport fishermen on the ocean...sometimes they need to do their isinglass daily...what do they use?  LEMON PLEDGE. 

Lemon pledge and a soft cloth. 

"* Video/Camera or other release -  ....... in the water rather than lifting ~ as good enough - slip'ed the net hoop back over for release and hardly if at all touched the fish,left it in the water - were o.k. with just estimate the size,length and weight rather than needing to put on a board. Leave the fish in the water where it belongs."

This is great IN THEORY, but does not take in to consideration the musky anglers who fish OUT OF LARGER CRAFT, where it is impossible to even touch the water, due to higher transoms . 

Not everyone who musky fishes does so out of a small boat.  We need to net the fish and carefully handle them, to even unhook them. 

Tuesday we found our 4 kings in front of Wilson..250 F.O.W.  Talked to another boat who found quite a few more out in 400'. Talked to a friend out of Olcott, that was catching all the browns he needed in tight down there....Also heard some lake trout were caught just west of the red can...

Pick a species and go fish for them, you should do well. 

Getting ready for a trip in August and started readying my rods.  I had a disgusting number of leader break offs with fish and gear loss last year,   I'm thinking the material I've got on hand was old and degraded.  Any thoughts on this???

I always think that my fishing line..IS THE ONLY THING BETWEEN ME AND MY FISH. 

Therefore, I always use high quality line / leaders, and change it for new a couple times per season. Leaders are checked every time the rig is put in, and taken out of the water, and replaced if there is any apparent damage. 

This may sound expensive?  

But is it really?

How much do those swivels and that spin doctor and that fly cost when you lose it all due to a failure? 

How often is it just a little skippy that breaks off? 

More likely it was a trophy Loc derby winner that got away, due to you not wanting to spend a few dollars for new line! 

Can't be great every year. .

 

July 4th was the time I wpuld start back up from spring back in the stone age. Then it was Lakers & browns W/ an ocaccional king or steelhead. All the modern equipment we have these days & still bad reports. Yea, it must be to much bait. That has to be it.They will show up , give it time. All the better when they do . Seeing the skunk once in a while will make some on here appreciate the good days.

 

 4 rod law anyone ?

I'm already running a 12-14 rod spread!

I'm lucky to connect with more than 4 kings a day....The best day in the last month of charters every day, we had 9 kings. Most days we boat 1-4 though. 

It's a good thing we have been catching Steelhead and cohos.  Even they come and go every day as well....There has been nothing consistent all season except, if you fish for kings, you will find some. 

If you fish for browns, there won't be many kings caught.

Dragging bottom really slow with cowbells? If you are, you are NOT targeting king salmon! 

how many miles from mexico bay is 600 ft?!!

Almost 20 miles on a course of 280 degrees....from Little salmon river breakwall.  11 miles will barely get you 400 from there...

You don't need to go that far...just get off the browns in shore, and three times as far as the lake trout areas...AND GO SALMON FISHING.  

Great... Now every Lake Ontario boat will be out in 600 -700 FOW this weekend clogging up my fishing areas

 

Just kidding!!! Out deep was great for us last weekend.

No, they won't.

After using all of that gas in one trip, not very many return a second time!     

Like I said, we are spoiled. 

Then where are they cause my friends on the northern side are having the same issues as us here. I know its a very big body of water and I have been out here for 30 years from chartering with gramps, then my uncle and now myself and none of us plus others have seen it this slow. Not to mention the amount of small skippers being caught which is some sign that the pen projects are working and then the amount of fisherman who cover this lake from east to west and north to south and we are all having similar issues.

They are in the 50% of the lake, THAT NO ONE FISHES MUCH. Up here on Lake Ontario we have become spoiled, in the fact that we can usually catch all we want within a few miles of shore. From 10 miles off shore and beyond, out of any port on either side, not many people spend too much time fishing. This leaves around 3500 square miles of lake, that only has a few hours of fishing time per week in it! Those of us that do fish out there, might not have the time or any reason to make reports to all the other fishermen WHO WON'T SPEND THE GAS TO GO THERE AND LOOK ON THEIR OWN! 

I am not happy about having to spend an additional $100- $150 per trip to run my charters out so far.....My bottomline is taking a hit for sure.  But I sure am grateful that I don't run a business on the Atlantic, where the Captains would love to only have to run 20 miles every day! 

I am not catching limits of 25 lb. kings on every trip out there....in fact, I haven't boated an honest 20 lber all year , yet...18's and 19's, yes....12-15's, a plenty...no 20 pluses for the Waterwolf though...

Good thing for the 10-12 steelhead and coho we get on every day out there, they are saving our sss looking for the motherlode of mature kings. 

The wind changing every day all season isn't helping us much, what we find today, is gone tomorrow.... every day out of the gate is a brand new search.....

Lots of square miles out there without a boat in it.....you can't really call a friend, when all of them are staying together in no king zone, crying the blues about "where are the kings", as they beat up lake trout and browns in skinny water.....

That's ok though, we have already booked two new customers who were upset that they booked a SALMON charter, and went lake trout fishing, they would rather get skunked fishing for what they want, than hear excuses from their Captain about why he isn't going where they are.... 

maybe I need to mention ther is an alpina in there

Or is it an Andy Reeker?