Raaven

What do you have to do to start recording water time. Is it a some kind of official documentation or maybe just some kind of personal journal? How many weeks are the classes for? Becoming a charter for me would not be to a small fortune as much as it would be to actually and finally do something I love!

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FYI.... Vessel Gross Tons IS NOT registration weight of the boat.

Look up the official formula to calculate what size vessel your experience is on.

I've been full time in the Business for 34 years now...about all the advice I can give is..

Develop and follow a strong business strategy..

Research out your cost analysis...

Advertise, advertise, advertise....

Don't expect to make any money....

Have a second form of income......

Wishing you the best of luck! It can be done!

I have the same problem.....I always thought it was because I was catching too many fish on them...but the other day I put down a brand new, out of the package kevorkian...and it never took a hit..... but came back up all silver!

That never happened before....maybe they are having issues they don't know about yet?

One thing you can do is come off of plane and stay about 5mph to deploy your coppers. Going that fast will get them out fast. When they are out drop your boards in let them out and clip on your copper. After those are set you can deploy the rest of your spread. Don't drop your boards in doing 5mph!

We do that when fishing tournaments !

Everyday charters, the coppers go out last. What's the hurry?

Don't know if it's true or not, but I had a guy come up to me at the gas dock at Olcott last year when one of my buddies was paying for the gas and asked me if I was a licensed charter captain? 19.5 ft boat really? He told me I needed to be licensed if I took money for gas? So now I let them pay for truck fuel, tolls, hotel and food and I put gas in the boat.

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Passenger for hire means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent or any other person having an interest in the vessel (46 U.S.C. 2101(21a)).

Consideration means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including monetary payment going to an individual, person, or entity. It does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel food, beverage, or other supplies (46 U.S.C. 2101(5a)).

Next time someone tries to tell you that you NEED a license to share expenses...tell them to go look up THE LAW.

When I got my first "six pack", in 1986..what he was saying WAS TRUE...you couldn't take anything, including some one buying you lunch, without a license.

Well it seems that has changed sometime in the last 26 years? I just looked up the actual Law, and above is what I found.

nobody likes R&Rs?

The fish do!

I have them in the water all the time.

They are not a spoon everybody has a stock of aboard...

You know, this is a good subject to hit upon...

I'm out there catching fish, doing my thing, and someone asks "what are you using", "What is working"...

Well it does THEM no good to tell them about lures they might not have, or can't just walk in to the store and buy...or modifications to stock items they just can never match...

So you go to the basics to try to help them out!

Everybody has, or knows of ,and can buy a Michigan Stinger NBK

But the other day the R&R black/white, a little red on leading edge, gold sparkle, glow back that I modified with a little peacock tail dangling on the single hook...WAS ON FIRE!

Tell a guy struggling to get a hit on the water, all that... and you get a long pause...followed by a "Ok, I KNOW I DON"T HAVE ONE OF THOSE. "

Run stickbaits off your planer boards back 100-150 feet, and spoons of choice on the riggers..40-75 feet back. troll east of harbor in 10-20 f.o.w and you should do well on the brown trout all the way down and beyond 4 mile point! Thin fins, rapallas and smith wicks have been good, in firetiger, black/silver, and anything with an orange belly. spoons have been..michigan stingers in uv green alewive, nuclear green, green wiggler...the old honeybee stingers in chartreuse/green, chartreuse/orange..as well as assorted sutton 44's and small evil eyes...

After you are down at the point and sick of playing with the small browns...head out to 50-100 f.o.w put those riggers down to 22-35 feet and troll back to harbor AND HANG ON.. king salmon have been playing nice all the way thru there daily...stingray size michigan stingers in kevorkian, green wiggler, and dirty white boy, nk's old silver/green glo, and ss waddler, as well as wire dipsys set out 45-55 on #3 setting with spin doctors and atomik flies!

Have a great time with your family and good luck catching!

Raaven,

Misdemeanor is right on with his explanation. On my boat I have my "go to" spoon/spoons, which are pretty much the same year after year, always suttle changes every season. I run NKs, Dreamweavers, and Michigan Stingers, and as Matt said somtimes the fish just like spoons from one manufacturer.

If your "go to" spoons or spread is all NKs, and that's what is working for you, don't change things drastically. Deffinately try other makes of spoons, but make small changes. For instance, run your usual "go to" set-up, but designate 1 rod that is going to be the experimental rod, and this will be the rod that you will use to run spoons that you've never run before. Changing your entire program introduces to many unknowns in the equation. To me.. figuring out my "go to program" is a methodical, thought out process, and it's always changing from trip to trip, and somtimes hour to hour.

And always try running the same color patterns of different spoons, as stated ealier, somtimes they just want one type.

Good Luck.

All good advice!

One thing I would like to add about "experimental " stations and lure selections....

Experiment with a station THAT WORKS FOR YOU, and when the fish are biting.

I learn nothing about a certain lure..if I run it where even my "Go To" struggles to connect this week...

Just like when nothing is working this hour, I won't say that lure doesn't work, just because it's in the "hot " position!

I'm pretty sure it depends on where in the lake you are fishing. In the more upscale areas ,pompous fish will snub their noses at spreads that are not in sync. Color coordination is important to them as well. Running spoons of different makes in these areas would be concidered a Fishing Fopa and only desparate fish would touch them. In the middle class areas of the lake you would still have quite a few Wanna Be upscale posers that would snub their noses but a large portion of the population would strike. In the lower class areas the ones really trying to get bigger would hit them, but for the most part, most of them would sit on bottom and wait till they get their EBT card, Then go fill up on frozen seafood at Wally World 1st of each month.

That explains why I only catch the dumb ones that are color blind?

Well, we did the boarder crossing thing all weekend. It was so easy! Took less than 5 minutes each time.

I run musky charters on The St. Lawrence from Oct-Dec. We have to call every morning also...It was never a problem, just took a few minutes. One morning they asked to talk to our clients...Seems that they had some DWI's in their past, so the Canadians didn't want them over there fishing. No problem, we just trolled in the American side of the river!

Like you said, REALLY EASY..Not a hassle, what's the big deal? Following some rules and procedure sure beats paying a hefty fine!

I try to run spoons from one manufacturer. I've been doing well with NKs. I'll typically run a NK 28 20-25 ft back off the rigger with a matching Mag spoon on a free slider. I have a bunch of DW spoons in some patterns I'd like to try. The nuclear green NK's consistently fire so I'm hesitant on taking them out. Is it really that critical to only be running NK spoons together? I'd like to try some of the DW spoons on the other rigger but don't want to throw the whole program off.

I never knew it was "critical" to only run one manufactures spoon at a time....

And since no one ever told me this important detail.....

I run multiple different spoons of shapes sizes colors and manufactures ALL AT THE SAME TIME !

I catch some fish.

I say switch it up and try some new ones WHEN YOU WANT. What's the worse that can happen, you don't catch a fish for a few minutes?

Does any one know if the counters on reels are more true with a full or empty spool? Given the diameter of the spool. I would think when its is full due to that is were most reels are at while fishing but not really sure. Any help would be great! Also they are Okuma reels that i am wondering about if that helps at all.

Thanks Matt

-Jakey Baby-

If your buddy is using 20 lb. wire and his dipsys are hot at 75 feet, your 30lb. wire might not fire at 75 feet !

Very unusual to be able to target Kings this early.

If they weren't there, or if they were there and you didn't know it, you would have beat up on the poor little Browns.

Glen

I haven't heard any reports of kings back in Mexico Bay...but Kenny has been getting them on the buoy line, and heard a rumor someone had a great day in the Trench...Good reports all up the south shore this year! If you go out and look for them, you will find them! All my "spring king" charters are booked on Waterwolf on weekends out in Wilson! We start out there in two weeks. Boat is still in Clayton from last falls musky trips.....Got to move her on the 15th..Kevin won't let us have our slip until after the Invitational.

Where do I sign up for those knitting classes you are teaching?

Very nice morning trip.

Conratulations on some happy customers.

Got to ask.

You know those salmon where there when you left those Browns or did you take a chance and go out and find them?

Anybody else on those fish or were you alone?

To answer your other question.....TK and Hattrick, and Proteus, and Lucky Dutchman and Salmon Tracker were all around me today, as well as some rec guys. As far as I know they all caught some kings today? As well as other days THEY FISHED FOR THEM.

You don't catch them on the beach with the little browns.

I think that the best we can hope for is that everybody just considers their actions, considers the consequences to the fish, and does their best to minimize their impact, while still having a great time and enjoying this amazing fishery.

Gator out.

I agree.

This mornings charter was a prime example of "my opinion" on this subject.

Three guests show up at 6 am. Two adults and a 14 yr. old autistic kid.

Well the wind was howling in Oz and it was cold! So we waited at the dock an hour, and started fishing at 7. First pass down the beach pulling smithwicks on planers, three riggers set shallow at 1.8 -2.0 mph produced 14 fish on, boated 9 browns and a northern pike! We released 6 of the browns, 3 were hooked bad so we boxed them. The northern of course was released. Did we turn around and make another pass? NO. As far as I was concerned, we could have kept all nine browns and had our daily limit.

Instead we talked about the rare abundance of spring kings we have been catching in Oz this spring! These guests have been coming up for years, brown trout trip every spring, back again mid summer for kings.

"Let's go try to catch one" responds the client!

Ok, pull the boards, pull off the beach, drop in some wire dipsys with spinny's and flies, switch up the riggers to stingrays and magnums, bump the speed up to 2.7-3.0 mph...and troll out to 50 f.o.w.

Well wouldn't you know it, we bang an 8 lb. brown on a rigger in 25 f.o.w. on route! Box that one. Nice fish.

It didn't take long for the kings to play...all five stations took a salmon, and we lost a couple more also in the next two hours!

Now we are limited out.

Or are we? Legally, we can still take some lakers...The kid has never caught a lake trout before? Perfect.

Slide out to 70 f.o.w. Put on some small spoons on the riggers, lengthen the leaders on the flies...slow the boat down to 1.2 -1.5 mph....send everything down!

It took a while to find them....But we were enjoying a sandwich anyway!

Pretty soon a dipsy fires....HEAD SHAKER...yup it's a laker! ohhhh noo ! It come off just before it hit the net! Darn it. The kid really wants one now.

Another pass or two on the numbers, and what's that? Rigger bouncing funny? Hit the release......a few minutes later, this kid is ecstatic about his first ever LAKE TROUT!

Father said "We had a great day! Take us in"...back to the dock at 11:30.

Gee, and to think we could have turned around and pounded on small brown trout all day...catching 30?-40?- 50 ? more AND RELEASING THEM ALL... How many would have died?

You guys crack me up.

Thanks for the kind words Big Dave.

Glen

Glen, don't get me wrong...I don't know if YOU are a game hog, or not....

I pull off the dock every morning with full intentions of catching/killing my clients their LEGAL limit every day. Of course, this doesn't always happen!

But if after a few passes of rods popping, and the box almost filled, I have to make a decision...either make another pass and be limited out in two hours, of a six hour charter..OR PULL OFF THE FISH. The clients are more than willing to try for a few bigger fish...and we can always go back in there and box out later in the trip?

Meanwhile.....I see other boats JUST POUNDING on those fish all day every day...and releasing...thinking they are doing good by letting them all go...

How many die? I don't know. EVERY ONE IN MY BOX IS DEAD. That's a fact.

I also release A FEW fish on a real good day...but won't sit there and C&R EVERY ONE I can get to bite.

I find it more challenging to target a different species, or a trophy...and sometimes you get them!

Also curious as to how "YOU" would know how many fish are not surviving after release and that it would be more than I would admit?

Please educate me.

And when and if I find them should I drive away from those fish so I don't hurt them?

Good fishing.

Glen

I consider EVERY FISH that is hooked, battled and released, as having the potential of dying. No matter how careful we are handling them. Would you feel different if there was proof every fish released died? I don't have the proof, just like no one has the proof THEY ALL LIVE.

Take the emphasis off CATCHING and get back to fishing!

If every pass a certain item is catching a small fish, do you take it out of your spread? Maybe a magnum lure will only target the trophy you are looking for? Maybe only going out a little deeper will find the bigger year class? If you have limited out, and are just weeding through the dinks, you already have those fish figured out! Why sit there and keep catching and releasing ? Just so you can brag you caught three or four times your limit? Would you be bragging you killed three times your limit, and can't wait to go out and do it again tomorrow?

You can always "pull off" the fish, change your whole spread, and target a trophy ! Then you won't have your rods firing EVERY pass...but you might educate yourself into being a better fisherman, not just a game hog.

I also don't see driving 4 hours after work on a Friday to go out and quit fishing after 45 minutes Saturday morning so I don't hurt any fish.

Now, do dead Salmon sink or float?

Glen

I have dropped a few at the dock while unloading the cooler...EVERY ONE SANK.

There is no reason you have to quit FISHING after limiting out quickly. you could always change species, techniques, location ?

If you are spring shoreline brown trout fishing, you can go out and target salmon? Mid summer salmon fishing, go in and target browns, or head out to deep blue and try to find some steelhead? Late fall staging salmon...catch and release as many as you want! They are all dead anyway.

Or keep going through your numbers and catch 70 brown trout releasing them all , and killing more than you would admit.

St Peters Outfitters in Oswego should have one.

Gone! Out of business...

Every fish that goes in the box...is a dead fish. But not every fish released, lives either. If people were REALLY concerned about "tomorrows fish"...they wouldn't sit out there and catch/ release fish all day...then go back to the dock with an attitude that they did better for the fishery, than the guy who took his limit AND LEFT.

Our fishery is a Put and Take fishery....

Take your limit, and go home for the day, or catch your limit, release them, and call it a day. Don't sit out there and C&R 30-40-50 fish..release them all, and think you are doing any good for our fishery.

JMO.

Not even close.....probably one of the better cleaning stations on the south shore.

Don't you have to take your guts with you when you are done?

Fishing Report

Your Name / Boat Name: Eddie

==============

TRIP OVERVIEW

==============

Date(s):

Time on Water:6pm-8pm

Weather/Temp: cold rainy

Wind Speed/Direction:calm-10mph NW

Waves: 0 building to 3ft by night

Surface Temp: 50

Location:

LAT/LONG (GPS Cords):

===============

FISHING RESULTS

===============

Total Hits: 4

Total Boated:3

Species Breakdown: kings laker brown

Hot Lure:

Trolling Speed:2.7

Down Speed:2.2

Boat Depth:40-80

Lure Depth: 12-30

====================

SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS

====================

Went out to take the new boat for its first trip first shot came off a dipsy out 75 on a flasher fly combo nice king about 10-15lbs dumped it at the back of the boat loaded everything in the new boat but the NET!!!!!! haha go figure about 5 mins later 21ft rigger with a blue dolphin went off nice little king...turned around went back through picked up a brown and a laker then waves kicked up and we left. first time we finally could fish out of oswego in forever not looking good for this weekend either.(not to bad 3 for 4 without a net haha)

Sounds like a nice short trip.

Do you guys have any recommendations for keeping the lines and cables separated and not ending up with an ugly mess.

Thanks,

Doug

Yeah...RUN THREE !

You can always stack and slide if you want more items down there.

The easist and most effective way for me to tell the difference between browns and atlantics? VOMERINE TEETH!

Located on the roof of the mouth...

Brown trout always have two alternating rows of pronounced vomerine teeth up there, with a group of them forward on the "head" of the vomerine...

Atlantic salmon always have a single row, very light (almost not even noticeable ) with NONE on the "head' of the vomerine...

Hope that helps?

For breakfast and lunch, go to Gillis' on 104A just east of town. For dinner try O'Conner's Restaurant it's right in town. There is also Pleasant Beach Hotel which is right on the east side of the bay. All three places are great.

Brian

I agree ! Plus, you can get a good soup and sandwich in the hardware store...

I have priced out several places and man replicas are $$$$$$

"Each scale is hand painted an average of 3-5 times to build depth in the paint."

You get what you pay for! Find a "cheap job" and see what you have to look at, for your trophy of a lifetime!