Capt Vince Pierleoni

Davey, I'm surprised you have not mentioned cormorants as doing damage to Steelhead. I can assure you they are having an enormous impact. Perhaps it's easier to point fingers at the lake anglers? Do you understand that lowering the creel on Steel will be counter productive? Why? because just like the fleets that HBC from the north deals with, there are some of those over here too. When creel was reached on Steel they would continue fishing, in exactly the same fashion, for the other species. Trust me, I'm frustrated with abuses too. As for your slam on Tournament fishing, there is no greater impact economically on an area than when an event is held. Those are probably the most justified fish harvested in the lake, and most of the smart guys are fishing the events with charters, sharing the great resource. We could debate sizes of Chinooks caught, but our fishery chief has already said its not having an impact (open water harvest) and these fish are the greatest table fare anyway. If you are fishing where the fall run Chinooks are "half dead", then you must have some private water. Over here in the Niagara and 18 mile they are harvested so fast they never end up like that. The small, young Chinooks this year have actually put up quite a good show.

Welcome Hairy from the North. The tribs with the big runs are the ones with Natural repro--and have protected areas/timeframes. Perhaps thats what needs to be done on the southshore if we cant get the hatchery product improved. Davey, sorry but no debate here. There was simply less adult Chinooks returning home the last 2 years, and in the west end, its been longer than that. As for the boat surverys, I challenge you to find ONE crew that I ever drove past or didnt cooperate with. You can add diet studies, head collections, stakeholder meetings--I participate in them all. I think you are extremely incorrect if you dont think healthy Chinook numbers buffer your Steel. You know the truth. I think you are playing a dangerous game of DIVIDING user groups when you start pointing fingers at the lake anglers. It works both ways. Perhaps there would be more mature Brown trout and Steelhead in the lake if they werent all played out to submission in the tribs. Maybe we should look closely at closing off sections of quality tribs for spawning--not just C n R, but no harrasment whatsoever. See, it can go both ways but everyone who knows you knows where your heart lies and what your true colors are. I'm very sorry about what is happening to the trib Steel, it affects us all. If the alewives were cropped properly the health of the Steelhead would magically improve. The solution was, is, and always will be Pacific Salmon.

Based on what we saw for adult alewives the last 2 yrs I would have to say yes, Brian. The Kings were in a competitive state right out of the gate in 2012, with the 3 yr class driving it. That left an excellent number of 4 yr olds for 2013.

"shorting the gamefish(especially pelagic) capabilities of Lake Ontario" . Very well put, and therein lies the frustration many feel. I've seen it in competitive balance twice, 1989 and 2012.

The late great DEC fisheries chief Bill Pearce, who is enshrined at the Altmar hatchery, clearly spelled out in the "year 2000 plan" document that bolstering the south shore economy WAS one of the original goals. Sadly, this emphasis definitely has taken a back seat. Hmmm, or has it? Perhaps after hearing of the astronomical increases in the "pay for fishing rights" game on the SR, maybe its just being targeted in a different way. We were warned when the Atlantic Salmon program began that the end game would be high cost limited access fishing. Too bad the inconvenient truth is the greatest solution to one of the biggest obstacles to restoring any naturally reproducing Atlantics--the Alewife--is best controlled by the pelagic Chinook Salmon. As for increased numbers of adult Steelhead for trib anglers to fish for, the simplest solution is a better density of Chinook for Lake anglers. This is a far better idea than planting more fish in a system where many are mysteriously dying. Wild Steelhead actually are doing quite well in Lake Ontario, but evidently they aren't originating from the Salmon river.

Unreal, Brian. Makes me think of that incident that happened in NYS around 2000. If I remember right it was near Albany. A bowhunter nodded off and fell out of his stand. He only had the waist belt style safety belt, so he was hanging upside down and had cut himself badly on a broadhead. He was squirming and bleeding and a pack of yotes showed up. I'm pretty sure they were leaping and grabbing him where they could with their jaws. The only thing that saved his life was he was hunting behind his house and he had shown his wife and daughter where that stand was and they came looking for him. I'm pretty sure it was the old NY Sportsmen magazine that retold the story.

Went Thurs AM. Lots of Coho in the raceway. The Kings we saw that day looked to be predominantly 2 and 3 yr old males. When we arrived one of the "educators"(name tag designation) was trying to explain away the poor river fishing to a group of anglers using the bad winter story. As we left it was a different group of concerned out of state anglers-but same excuse. We did not see very many Chinook hens in the raceway, hopefully they had some in the holding bays. If anyone has any info on the stripping that is to start in the next couple days I am very interested in the take.

Plans are already being made to try to minimze the impact of cormorants in this area. I'm not sure if going far out in the lake is the answer as that opens them up to other predators. What definitely needs to happen immediately all over the Lake is high impact cormorant control. These devils are eradicating alot more than just Chinook plants.

While a good thought, it won't happen due to egg disease issues/concerns. To solve the "eggs in one basket" issue, the DEC needs to set up an additional hatchery for Chinook production. Yes, it would be ideal if Altmar could get it done but it has proven to fail in too many seasons(egg eye up, cold water and flow problems causing issues, space issues in Spring with Steelhead arriving). Some here have suggested utilizing more of the eggs and sperm from the NY/Ontario wild strain. I think this is a great idea as a higher percentage of those return as 4 yr olds and are better adapted to this climate and prey varieties.

Rolmops, those 80 lbers of which you speak reach those weights because they are a longer lived strain-7 yrs to return. The 2 yr olds would not be necessarily any larger than our 2 yr olds. The 4 yr olds in Lake Ontario are still behemoths, deep bodied tanks with huge tails and fins. More of each class needs to survive so the 4 yr portion is larger. The cormorants and skilled anglers are cropping the new lower survival amount. Survival must be increased as priority one.

The Lakes were ruined years ago when the Seaway was built and the Alewife and sea lamprey invaded. The Pacific Salmon program was, is, and always will be part of the solution. FACT.

Lucas, Lake trout are opportunists above and beyond anything else. Yes, they love gobies but they also love the taste and texture of tube jigs. They are eating a ton of gobies but many anglers noticed Lakers higher in the column during Summer months in some locations due to the abundance of adult alewife. There are many periods of time when gobies and Lakers are in the same locations but the reason for the additional Lake trout stocking is "just because." You weren't asked and neither was I. It is not to control goby populations, it is a federal initiative to restore a self sustaining population of Lake trout to the Great Lakes. Although this isn't all bad( lamprey control occurs mainly to protect Lake trout & huge Lakers are kinda cool) it is the opinion of many that it is too much of a priority and the other species management is suffering.

It is my understanding that the clipping study will go on another 2 years. Returning to streams this year are 2 yr old clipped Kings and 4 yr old clipped Kings. There are also 3 yr old mature Kings that will not provide any data as the clipping was skipped that year. Many of us are looking forward to next year. Based on all the young fish out there if they make it through the winter it should be better. Keep in mind that many of these could be the result of strong natural hatches and does not resolve any of the concerns we have with the hatchery or stocking practices.

Sadly Skipper, our efforts to do that many years ago were again met with DEC opposition. Retired insiders told us it was because they did not want the stakeholders and user groups to think they had more of a say in management decisions. Sound familiar? Many of us have been cooperating 100% with the DEC and Fed field techs regarding the clipping study. We are hopeful that this info/data is truly going to be used to improve things and not just yet another delay tactic.

Actually K Red, young Bass anglers recently told me they watched the cormorants stealing 12--14" Largemouth from the shallows of Wilson harbor. Others had told me they have decimated the Greece ponds and Braddocks of Largemouth and there is still many hanging around there. There has been documentation of cormorants relentlessly diving on Lake Ontario stockings and thats got to stop.

Wow. Lifetime memories for sure. Congrats!

Rollie, the insinuation that this is all about financial gain could not be further from the truth. Actually, it's been quite the opposite. I have been bombed with inquiries because of the slow fishing/low King numbers. Guys who just want to get their lifetime friends or ailing relative hooked up before they head home. Anyone who knows us knows we weren't short of business. No, it's about being there as a kid when it was a wasteland and watching it rise above the ashes. I have never lived more than 8 miles from the south shore. There may come a day when the carrying capacity of pelagics is reduced, but that day is not now.

Its been bad over here too. Last Saturday approx half were sans nav lights.

There is much happening behind the scenes. In the Western basin we have been concerned with the low Fall returns for several years. We have tried the diplomatic approach and all we have encountered is stall tactics. When there was funding for another hatchery it was met with road block after road block. This was very telling. Those of us actively working with the DEC staff who get their hands dirty do not blame them. We know its at the top of this broken State. There is much more than bickering going on and I and many others have admitted there is much more we can do to improve things--starting with making sure the cormorants don't get all the released Salmon and trout.

There is zero evidence anywhere, that backing off predation on alewives results in increased catch rates of Walleye, Yellow perch, or Lake Trout. It is in fact, just the opposite. Alewife are a voracious predator of the hatches of all three of these species. The catch rates for those species could/already have increased over there(Lake Michigan) out of necessity due to less Chinook, but that read like propaganda. The weaning has begun.

IRon, we do give a rip. We enjoy contributions regarding the Michigan fishery. Thanks.

Good stuff, Rick. I thought you would end up a torch carrier. The bottomline is comparing Michigan to Ontario at THIS time is apples and oranges--other than the agenda which sportsmen seem to have no say in--Lake Trout priority one. There is surplus bait for the pelagics in Lake Ontario at this time. Yes, they did stock 3 yrs ago but keep in mind that much of that was "paper numbers.' If direct stocks are in poor condition they don't contribute. Our fishery in open lake is driven by natural fish and pen held fish. Returns in the western basin are mostly pen fish. On top of the quality challenges of hatchery product, predation by countless cormorants and increased warm water species is not being factored into any equation. Lastly, the skill of the average angler has skyrocketed and the Pacific Salmon are the targets day in and day out for obvious reasons. I feel strongly that our fishery can be turned around quickly with much more care and concern given to the Pacific Salmon species. Not only does this increase quality fishing opportunity and lakeshore/state economies, but helps all species including the native effort by balancing the ecosystem.