Ivan

Thanks wolf. My above post was sarcasm. I understand that a small craft advisory is a good gauge. I look at weather/wave reports before I drive up. I also understand that not just any boat with any operator, can go out on big water anytime they feel like it. That's not at all what I'm saying here. My whole point to all this is simply that Paul doesn't have the right to "confront" anybody else about when they should or shouldn't be out fishing. Where do you draw the line? Who sets the criteria? What kind of guy "confronts" a 70 yr old man for fishing? I don't consider my 21' Lund Baron with a 250 Verado to be a small, incapable boat. It might not be a 10M, but it does pretty well in rough stuff and I'm a capable operator. Just so you know, here is the definition of small craft advisory: Small Craft Advisory (SCA) - An advisory issued by coastal and Great Lakes Weather Forecast Offices (WFO) for areas included in the Coastal Waters Forecast or Nearshore Marine Forecast (NSH) products. Thresholds governing the issuance of small craft advisories are specific to geographic areas. A Small Craft Advisory may also be issued when sea or lake ice exists that could be hazardous to small boats. There is no precise definition of a small craft. Any vessel that may be adversely affected by Small Craft Advisory criteria should be considered a small craft. Other considerations include the experience of the vessel operator, and the type, overall size, and sea worthiness of the vessel.

OK Paul. You're right. For future reference, just so I and the other guys with "tiny" boats know, when is it ok for us to fish your lake? We know now that 3 to 5s are too much for a 17' lund. That day started at 3 to 5 right? Do we need to wait until it's 2 to 4? 1 to 3? 2 or less? What if you have a 19' boat? What if you have a 21' boat? When is it not ok for you to go out? I'm done. Good luck to you too.

Paul, No disresepct...you have alot of experience, but you are drawing alot of conclusions about me without knowing me. I also have a wife and a 3yr old daughter. I also know my limits. I may only fish Lake O 2 or 3 times a year, but I also fish lake St Clair, Lake Erie, the Georgian bay, and the St Lawrence river every year. I have plenty of big water experience. I never said I can handle everything Lake O can dish out. Maybe you should read a little better. As you said, the lake whipped up fast. It was probably fine for the guy until things took a turn for the worse. It was fine for you, then you had to run. Why is it different for the guy in the Lund? Why do you feel you had any more right to be out there than he did? So had the guy not come back in, you would have went back out to look for him? How long were you going to wait before you went back out to look for him? Sounds like you waited a while before you saw him come in. By the time you decided to go back out to look for him, if he really was in trouble, it probably would have been too late. Regardless of what you say, I still don't feel you have the right to tell somebody else that they shouldn't be fishing because you are not confident in their capabilities and the size of you boat. That's not your call. IMO it makes you look like you think you are better than them. I guess we will agree to disagree. By the way, it must not have been that bad if a 17 foot Lund made it in on a kicker motor. Sorry to get argumentative, but you started it.

I don't want to get into an argument over this. I wouldn't risk my life for a fish and I certainly wouldn't want to risk anyone else's life because of my decisions. Really though...Seas would have to be over 10 to feel like I was in danger of really being killed in my boat. Not saying that I'm going to go out fishing in 10 footers either. I've fished in 6 to 8s more than a few times though. I think talking about being killed in 3 to 5's is a little extreme. It's not always fun fishing in rough conditions, but I usually don't let it stop me. Just because you have a larger boat don't lose respect for Lake O, or guys with smaller boats that have just as much right to fish as you. I used to fish Lake O in the 80s in a 14' Mirrowcraft with bench seats and a 9.9 with my dad when I was a kid. We caught salmon too. I enjoy your reports by the way. No hard feelings. Thanks

Why would somebody "confront" somebody else for fishing in conditions they think are too rough? Everybody has their own limits...to each their own. 3 to 5s are fine in a 17' Lund for some people. Sometimes the smaller boats fit between the waves better. That Yankee Troller should handle anything Lake O can dish out. Are those giant boats making you guys soft? (just joking) A couple years ago on a weekend when a hurricane had come up the coast, I drove up to fish and launched out of Olcott. The lady at the ramp didn't even want to take my money and said everbody was sitting around waiting for the waves to lay down some. I drove 4 hours to fish. I wasn't going to turn around and go home. I had already looked at the lake and knew I would be fine. I launched my boat and headed out. Nobody else went out except Thrillseeker ( I think) followed me out. (that's like a 30+' boat). I know you guys have liability with clients and don't want to take them out when it's rough, but some people are more comfortable and capable than others in rough water. You guys that are always up there can pick and choose good conditions. Maybe it's not a big deal for you to miss a day if conditions are not great. I only get up there 2 or 3 times in a year, and I am going to fish if I drive up to the lake. Not trying to start anything, just saying to each their own.

Kooter, I saw you this weekend. I remember saying that is the biggest Grumann I've ever seen. Didn't know they made a boat that big. Unfortunately, I think last weekend was it for me this year. I'll be spending my time muskie fishing Chautauqua now until my November trip to the St Lawrence.

Fishing Report Your Name / Boat Name: Adam/ blue Lund Baron ============== TRIP OVERVIEW ============== Date(s): 8/25 and 8/26 Time on Water: 6:30 to dark Saturday and 7:30 to 3:00 Sunday Weather/Temp: hot and sunny Wind Speed/Direction: very little except some east wind both afternoons Waves: 2 feet or less Surface Temp: 74 Location: Oak Orchard LAT/LONG (GPS Cords): =============== FISHING RESULTS expected better =============== Total Hits: 11 Total Boated: 8 Species Breakdown: 3 kings and 5 steelhead Hot Lure: Trolling Speed: Down Speed: 2.2 to 2.7 Boat Depth: 75 to 500 Lure Depth: 40 to 80 ==================== SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS ==================== The mornings were terrible for us this weekend. We never moved a rod until after 12:00 both days...I'm not sure why?? Saturday we started around 75 fow and fished inside around the 80 fow mark until noon or so. Screen looked good. Marked fish from 40 down to the bottom. Temp was around 50' down inside. After alot of nothing, we headed out and went 4 for 5 on steelhead around 350 to 400 fow. Temp was about 70' down out there. Came back inside around 3pm and went 2 for 3 on kings and got 1 steelhead inside also before dark on Saturday. Sunday was more of the same. Looked good inside, but never moved a rod until after 12:00. Finally boated a decent king and a steelhead before we left at 3pm. good steelhead were 10 and 12lbs. Kings were, 14, 18, and 21lbs. The one king we lost was pulling good and probably over 20lbs as well. All kings around the 80 fow area. 2 of the 4 kings we had on were on NK spoons. 1 on orange crush on a rigger about 55 down and 1 on mag 42 sec on a fixed slider about 65 down. The other kings were on flasher/flies. 1 on the bottom on white/green dot spin doctor with cryptonite fly and the other on 42 sec spin doctor/green mirage fly on dipsey at 240. Had 2 other releases on flasher/flies around 65 down that were probably kings but never hooked up. It seemed like a tough weekend. I know I thought it would be better and we didn't see many caught either day.

I just helped a buddy find a used Grady White. He got an 05 Seafarer 23' hardtop walk around. They are sweet boats and IMO probably perfect for trolling the Great Lakes. I do more than troll the Great Lakes and trailer far distances so my Lund is a perfect fit for me. I do agree that if only trolling the Great lakes, then you can't go wrong with a glass walk around. I looked at alot of these recently for my buddy. IMO Grady Whites, Parkers, and Pursuits are the nicest and hold their value well. Wellcraft, Proline, Hydra Sports, Seaswirl, and Trophys are nice also.

Here's my 21' Lund. I can fish pretty much anywhere with this boat. It trailers easily. I can cast or troll. I have tracks on the gunwales and can change out rod holders, downriggers, etc. The split window and top set can give some nice protection from the elements, if needed. It has an open bow and electric motor for casting. This falls into the 18-21' deep v aluminum I suggested above. Lund, Alumacraft, and Starcraft are all quality aluminum boats. Something similar to this in layout can be bought used for $10 to $15k if it's not too new. Here's the walk around glass style as the other option http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... id=2508006

What are you casting for? A boat with a cabin is not going to be suited for casting, so I'm not sure what is more important to you. If you want a boat that can be a good multi-species rig, can be trailered around easily, can fish big and smaller water, but is big enough to handle a family, etc. I would look at a 18-21' deep V aluminum boat like a Lund, Starcraft, Alumacraft, etc. If you want a boat with a cabin that's a little bigger and primarily used for lake Ontario, look at something in the 21 to 25' range and is glass. I like walk-arounds like Grady White, Seaswirl, Hydra Sports, Parker, Proline, etc. You wouldn't be casting out of something like this though.

Fishing Report Your Name / Boat Name: Adam in a blue Lund Baron ============== TRIP OVERVIEW ============== Date(s): sat 8/18 and sun 8/19 Time on Water: sat 7-4 and sun 6-3 Weather/Temp: mostly sunny mid 70s Wind Speed/Direction: nw sat and sw sun Waves: 2 feet or less...beautiful weekend conditions Surface Temp: 74 Location: oak orchard LAT/LONG (GPS Cords): =============== FISHING RESULTS =============== Total Hits: 20 Total Boated: 17 Species Breakdown: 10 kings, 7 steelhead Hot Lure: Trolling Speed: Down Speed: 2.2 to 2.7 Boat Depth: 100 to 250 Lure Depth: 65 to 100 ==================== SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS I made it up to Lake Ontario for the first time this year. I took a muskie fishing friend that had never caught a king or steelhead before and let him reel in most of the good kings. We ran 3 riggers from 70 to 120 feet of cable and 2 braid dipseys at 220 to 260 on a 2 setting. Every rod caught at least a fish. Best temp seemed to be around 100 down and most of our good kings came 80 to 100 down. Saturday we found mature fish right away and worked one spot all day between 130 and 230 fow. Got 7 kings that day with 4 over 20lbs. 26lbs was biggest. Sunday we struggled a bit with matures. Never found a good spot to pound, but found good looking screen in 100 to 120 fow east of the breakwall. We picked away at some smaller kings and steelhead. Best baits were spin doctors 42sec, NBK, white w/green dots and flies 42 sec, green mirage, and cryptonite. Spoons were NK orange crush, Stinger green gator, and DW 42 sec with gold cup. Can't wait to get back next weekend. I have another friend that I need to get into some nice kings. ====================

Like others have said, if the boat is primarily being used for Lake Ontario, top speed is not your concern. You need power for waves, but won't be doing top speed most days anyway. I have a 21'10" Lund Baron with a 250 Verado that will do 50+mph, but can't do that most days on lake O. 22 to 28mph seems to be a tolerable speed in pretty rough stuff. Slower if it's really rough. I'm not afraid to fish rough water either...I've been the only boat to leave the dock before at Olcott while 30 foot boats waited for better conditions.

A buddy of mine has a 196 Fishmaster with a 115 Merc 4 stroke. It's a nice deep boat for it's length and handles rough water very well for it's size. He is plenty happy with the boat. He also owns a smaller Lund. Anyway, the Starcraft will do 37 to 38 max gps speed. He said with 2 people and the roof up about 35mph gps. I just asked him when I saw your post.

Thanks guys.

I though about adding another 200', but the few times I used the copper I never put out more than 300' anyway. I guess it would be best to have all 500' in case I wanted it. What kind of knot do I use to tie the copper to a swivel for the splice?

Thanks Joe

I did a little research and found answers to a couple of my questions. 300' of copper should be around 60'down. I guess it's about 20' for every 100' of copper Looks like I tie floro or mono directly to the copper using an Albright knot. Is that what you guys do? Does that Albright knot need to be covered with shrink tubing? How much mono/floro should I use for leader material beyond the copper?

A few years ago I bought a reel with 500' of copper on it. I lost 200' of it in a bad tangle on a fish on a dipsey, so I have 300' left on the reel plus backing. I plan on just using the 300' I have left but am looking for advice on what to do with the end of the copper. I know I want to put mono or floro at the end beyond the copper. How much mono/floro should i use? Do i tie a little swivel that can fit into my reel to join the copper and the mono? What type of knot works for copper? Do i need shrink tubes to put over the knots? What will 300' get me? 60 down? Sorry about all the questions, but it's been a couple years since I had the issue with the copper rod and I forget how it was set up to begin with. Thanks in advance for responses.

Nice fish Mike...like the tigers.

The Three Rivers MI board also voted last night to postpone the club's Chautauqua Tourney that was scheduled for 7/21 and 7/22. A new date has not been set yet.

Good call Larry. I think the fishing will be better in October anyway. Adam A.

Me and my 3 year old daughter. This was the first fish that she caught all by herself. She made the cast, set the hook, and reeled it in all by herself. She got it on a rubber worm in a golf course pond. I was very proud. I'm hoping she will be my boat partner some day.

Thanks poverty. There are so many variables to salmon fishing with line lengths, down speed and temp, etc. We've got them dragging balls on the bottom in 110' of water and up high over 500' of water. I think that's part of what makes it so fun and challenging. Plus the fish can just flat out scream a reel like nothing else in fresh water. I hope I can make trip up to the big lake this year and get some good advice to keep honing my skills. I just don't get to do it enough to learn enough on my own.

I know it doesn't help immediately, but Dale Wiley always has a booth at the Butler, PA fishing show in February each year.

People seem to be under the impression that Muskie Thrills is Dale's website. They sell Wiley's exclusively, but it's not Dale's site. It is probably the best place to get them though. Orders do take a while.