Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

reelxite

Professional
  • Content Count

    159
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by reelxite

  1. More info on the June 12th portion of the Orleans County Open "Condor Memorial" https://www.facebook.com/robert.songin.9
  2. Fishhawk X4 for sale used with new probe purchased last year $400 plus shipping. Lets see if anyone pays attention call or text ONLY!!!!!! 585-733-5829
  3. So as an added thing to keep the event on the up and up we have engaged the services of a professional lie detector administrator and will be randomly testing all of the money winners
  4. Ams are defined as not having anyone on board that has a license either federal or state that can charge for the service guiding to catch fish
  5. The are many exciting new developments happening on the Lake from the tournament perspective and the Orleans County Open is one of those with some new twists. First we are implementing an AM division and eliminating the need for Observers so the following format will be followed. Pro Division: 10 total Fish Box; 5 Salmon 5 Trout only 3 can be Lake Trout Am Division: 6 total Fish Box; 3 Salmon 3 Trout There will also be some Scoring changes: All fish will be 10 points per fish and 1 point per pound except Steelhead they will be 20 points per fish: This change was implemented after feedback from participants as to the concern of targeting Lake trout in the event, as it is counter productive the USGS goal of restoration efforts of Lake trout In Lake Ontario. Since the cost of an observer is typically $100/day the teams will be saving $200 off the cost of fishing the event. The new price to fish the event will be: $500 per Pro boat; Plus what ever side pools you want to participate in (Ex: Calcutta, brackets,) you need to fish the pro division in order to participate in the additional pools. $300 per Am boat Both events are 100% payback Looking forward to seeing you all at the event: The OCO Committee
  6. The are many exciting new developments happening on the Lake from the tournament perspective and the Orleans County Open is one of those with some new twists. First we are implementing an AM division and eliminating the need for Observers so the following format will be followed. Pro Division: 10 total Fish Box; 5 Salmon 5 Trout only 3 can be Lake Trout Am Division: 6 total Fish Box; 3 Salmon 3 Trout There will also be some Scoring changes: All fish will be 10 points per fish and 1 point per pound except Steelhead they will be 20 points per fish: This change was implemented after feedback from participants as to the concern of targeting Lake trout in the event, as it is counter productive the USGS goal of restoration efforts of Lake trout In Lake Ontario. Since the cost of an observer is typically $100/day the teams will be saving $200 off the cost of fishing the event. The new price to fish the event will be: $500 per Pro boat; Plus what ever side pools you want to participate in (Ex: Calcutta, brackets,) you need to fish the pro division in order to participate in the additional pools. $300 per Am boat Both events are 100% payback Looking forward to seeing you all at the event: The OCO Committee .
  7. On this Dave we agree and you and I have always agreed on this fact, when salmon fishing is good all season from April to September it takes pressure off of every other species. But as long as the west end late summer/fall fishery continues the recent trends we have seen over the past few years Steelhead will always come into play in the open lake fishery.
  8. If anyone knows Sandy and what is happening there its Rob(Legacy) and I would definitely believe him if he says its lights out fishing there.
  9. Is there a problem with sharing information about good fishing in the tribs, we do it ll the time on the lake, we like to have as many people as possible share in this great fishery.
  10. The pens are owned by the Oak Pen Rearing Group and all decisions as far as how they are used are made by consensus of the group, not me alone.
  11. So my one comment for today, I talked to a fisherman today who fishes both lake and tribs. I also talked to a friend at the Oak. The Oak is very slow could be because the canal is now empty. But the Genny and Sandy are on fire with steelhead, for the past 3 weeks. There have been many fisherman having double digit days catching fish and the guys that really know what they are doing are occasionally doing better than that. Remember this is second hand, I do not fish the tribs, this time of the the year my focus is on whitetail hunting. So the question is how good does it have to be in the tribs? If the fishing is this good now why do we need the new reg? Is it because the DEC is worried that with all the salmon cuts the last few years, we will have to focus more on steelhead in the future to catch fish on the Lake? I know they keep tabs on this site and hope they are reading and seeing how big of a divide they are further driving between the trib stakeholders and the lake stakeholders, and I consider many of the DEC guys friends.
  12. Again I will restate it pen rearing steelhead has never been focused on the the lake fishery and has little effect on steelhead availability on the lake it has always been focused as a benefit for the tribs.
  13. Dave what you don't know is that the pen was not pulled for the new steelhead reg. It had nothing to with that it had to do with a cut in stocking in salmon in the pens at the Oak, so if that is what Rob told you it is absolutely wrong. You can verify this with Legard because we were very upset with the cuts to the pen project and him and I had a very long discussion about the whole subject. But again you dont know the facts I did and was over ruled by the rest of the committee. I throw no one under the bus! They have every right to do that. One last thing when TU did not give us financial support for the pen projects it was because they wanted us to support a cut in the steelhead harvest on the lake, whats that called "quid pro quo"
  14. Dave, again you are wrong the pens not being use for steelhead in Sandy had nothing to do with the Reg. it was not even proposed at the time, get your facts correct, to bad you are really out of touch. Also it is not my decision alone to make any more with the pen project at the Oak it is being transitioned to the younger men that support it and it is done as a group which I am part of, again you are out of touch. So the fish being released at the time they were released was not my decision, and I guess it was our fault that the fish stayed in the river for 3 days, again you are out of touch. And I will give you a little know fact, we went to TU when we started the Pen project in 1998 and they gave us nothing, It was totally financially supported by lake interests, something again you dont know. If you are going to make statements get your facts right.
  15. Dave, we have always asked for help and have always posted on this site and facebook on multiple pages, also making it general knowledge in the community buy posting notices at the local places of business when help was needed, (Ron B always knew what was going on) did not know we needed to send a special invitation to the trib anglers to get their attention, and if we did where would we sent it. Would like to think if they cared about the fishery they would attempt to find out when work needed to be done, the lake anglers do! Its not a secret when the work needs to be done the the lake anglers are always asking when the pens need to be put together when the fish are coming. The trib guys could have stepped up any time and taken over the steelhead portion of the project to show they cared but never did and never asked. they just let it go to the wayside and did not care to ask. It was not until the DEC made it a priority and came up with the funds to support it that something happen. And then it was lake a guy that helped facilitate the construction of the pens for free. As you can tell when it comes to the pen rearing you pushed the wrong button!
  16. Sorry to say Dave this was not the reason we stopped raising steelhead in the Oak, I was still the coordinator when this happen, it happen for only one reason absolutely "NO" help from the trib anglers!!!!! From the beginning we always knew that penning steelhead would have little effect on our open water steehead fishery. We raised them for only the benefit of the tribs. I still have the original justification documents I gave to Bill Abraham for the projects. I will say at times we did get help from the trib anglers but it was always minimal, maybe they would show up one time and feel they did their due diligence for the project. It was always lake anglers supporting the tribs from that perspective. In past conversations with Ron B. he even stated that he did not believe that the pen project helped the steelhead stream fishery, and if denied I call "BS" right now. Remember with the help of Bill Abraham we together started the pen program and I have always been involved with the decision process of the program and will till I retire or die.
  17. Dave I have no animosity towards you or anyone who supports this change personally. I respect your right to your opinion. I know we have been on opposite sides of these debates before and I am sure we will be again.
  18. I will agree that steelhead caught in the rivers can survive until they have been caught to many times, I see drop back fish all the time on the lake that I know have been caught in the streams I will agree with that. Also steelhead caught in cold water conditions on the the lake like April and May, have a chance though small because they are caught on long lines. But caught in July, Aug and Sept. when most of them have been caught on the lake they are doomed. There is no evidence that they survive if released, again it looks good when they swim away but I challenge anyone to prove to me they survive, a day, a week or a month. The mouths would not be just ruffed up there would be clear evidence with disfigured mouths and in my experience that does not occur. Like is does with Salmon which have a much harder stronger mouth.
  19. There is one thing that I can attest to no matter how you treat a steelhead when he is landed fishing the open lake while trolling, even if you use a process such as a resuscitation/revival tank no one can prove that fish survives absolutely no one. It may swim away but does he survive? I can say this, I have caught salmon that I know have been caught before due to wounds on their mouths, I assume that they have been caught as skippers and received the wounds when being released. In my 37 years of fishing on the lake I have never caught a steelhead that showed any indication of being caught and released. I have caught a few that had small hooks in them which at one time probably had egg sacks attached but that is it. So even if this reg. is adopted there is no way to identify if it works. As I said before it is a feel good reg. with no way to assess its impact. Lets look at a little bit more of history, there is a very important condition that should be adhered to when stocking fish at a site. The water temp at the site must not be more than 10 degrees different than the temp in the delivery truck. A number of years back while delivering steelhead and salmon to a site for the pen project that condition occurred. The fish where placed in the pens anyway because once the trucks leave the hatchery they cannot bring the fish back so they have to be stocked. All looked fine when the trucks left, but the next day the pen project coordinator for the site returned to find 10,000 dead steelhead and 50,000 salmon swimming happily. Let face it steelhead are far more fragile than salmon. With that information catching a steelhead 80 foot down in 45 degree water and bringing him up to 65 degree water a 20 degree change is fatal no matter if he swims away or not. This stocking issue has since been addressed and there are alternate options put in place to handle it. The issue here is with the continued reduction of salmon stocked on the lake over the past few years and another possible reduction in the 2020 stocking on the south shore fishing offshore may become more prevalent. That being said more steelhead will/could possibly show up in our catches as happen in the late 90's under the same scenario, I know we as professional and recreational anglers do not want to kill any more fish than we have to lowering the limit to 2 will force us to do exactly that. Since our total limit on silvers will remain 3 and we will need to try to complete our box, we will still be fishing possibly catching more steelhead putting them at risk and most likely their demise. Leaving the limit at 3 will actually put less fish at risk since once we catch our 3 for each person on the boat our fishing day is over. I do not have to go over the reasons why we will still be fishing in the same water and this will happen since it has been covered many times before.,
  20. For those of you who have not read the regulation change concerning steelhead on Lake Ontario open waters lowering it to 2. Here is the part of the new regulations that was published. In the justification portion of this document it was stated. “Four of the five proposed regulation amendments result from a series of meetings with a Lake Ontario Fisheries Management Focus Group (Focus Group), convened to determine anglers’ desired fisheries management outcomes and to seek consensus on management actions that will result in maintenance and improvement to high quality sport fisheries. The Focus Group was comprised of 16 angler representatives” I was part of that group and I can tell you that this was not a consensus at least 7 of the contributors including myself apposed this proposal. Here are the new regs: 2. Reduce the open Lake Ontario/Lower Niagara River creel limit for rainbow trout/steelhead from 3 to 2 fish/day -Rainbow trout/steelhead provide the primary sport fishery in Lake Ontario’s tributaries from November through the following spring. This potential change is designed to increase numbers and sustainability of rainbow trout/steelhead in the tributary fishery by reducing open lake harvest when Chinook fishing success in the lake declines and more anglers specifically target rainbow trout/steelhead. 3. Reduce the creel limit for brown trout in Lake Ontario tributaries from 3 to 1 fish/day -This change is intended to prolong high quality brown fishing opportunities through the winter months, while still allowing anglers the opportunity to harvest a trophy fish. Fishing effort on Lake Ontario tributaries can be intense each year from fall through spring and maintaining high quality brown trout fishing opportunities relies on anglers releasing a high proportion of their catch. Let me give you a little history of this new steelhead regulation, a number of years ago (unfortunately I can not specify the date). The tributary angler groups wanted to reduce the harvest limit on the tributaries to 1 because they viewed the fish in the tributaries subject to over harvested of a limited resource (only so many fish will enter the trib. and they are easy prey to anglers). The DEC agreed and we as lake anglers did not support it, but did not oppose it, with an agreement between lake anglers and the DEC Management at the time that they would not impose the same regulation on the open lake. All was well in the fishing world, but we knew in our minds it would only be a matter of time and they would come after an open lake reg on steehead. It started with the minimum size being raised to 21 inches, now they are trying to lower the limit to 2 on the open water, not unexpected. So now we see in regulation proposal #3 that they are going to lower the brown trout limit on the trib. to 1 for the same reason as they lowered the steelhead to 1 in trib. in the past. How long will it be till they come after the limit on the lake too, as they are now doing with the steelhead. Even though the DEC have again promised not to do so as in the past. I have no problem if the tributary anglers want to self-regulate and propose regulations that will limit harvest and size in the tribs. But we as lake anglers in return should be allowed to propose limits and sizes on the Lake. We as open lake anglers must oppose this regulation and let our voices be heard. We still have till Dec. 14, to let our voices be heard. Send your comments to: [email protected]: with this in the subject line: 6 NYCRR Part 10 Section 11-0317-Amendents to Great Lakes sportfishery regulation in 6NYCRR Part 10
  21. After a conversation with the DEC to clarify the format of the input they would like as to the regulation changes, they do want you to comment as to your position, why you oppose the new reg and your rational to support it. So KIngDavey, I stand corrected and your previous post on this matter was correct. But it does not mean that input as far as a simple agreement/dis-agreement with these changes does not or cannot have a political impact. As you and I know the DEC is monitoring this thread, as they always have monitored this board to stay up to date on the fishery. I as well as you have been attending these meetings what seems like forever, and I have seen the science and in the past we have all questioned some of it and agreed with some of it . The science according to DEC supported raising the size limit on steelhead to 21 inches to increase survival and returns to the streams, and according to the science lowering the limit to 2 from 3 will continue to support this. The data used to support these changes is received via surveys both open lake and tributary, which is contributed by anglers, so it depends on that quality of that input. But where the science in my opinion falls apart is, no matter how many fish are released there is no data to assess release survival open lake. From my own personal experience I have released many steelhead having them swim away for a short distance only to have them surface, this then gets counted as a released fish, but did it really survive. I don't know and neither does the DEC, there is no way to get the data. So that leaves a big undefined variable in the equation. Some further personal experience with catch and release, from the Salmon perspective I have caught many salmon, that I believe had been caught before mostly as skippers (1 year olds) the evidence to support this is disfigure mouths on these fish due to poor release practices. I believe that supports the catch and release survival of the skippers only. But I never see steelhead with the same evidence of catch and release survival. Some further information the comment period officially began Oct.16, it is a 60 day period so there is plenty of time to comment on it, I still stand opposed to this new regulation. Please take the time to get your input to the DEC.
  22. You and I both know when these number occur the fish they are catching are Salmon and it is the easiest/safest time of the the year to release them and have them survive, Spring and early Summer. Not MID July, August and Early September. The Salmon we catch during these months also have just as high of a mortality rate as steelhead. Having observed over 40 years of properly releasing fish and the time of the year released.
  23. Last time I checked this is a democracy and every comment (Vote) should be counted (we do not want voter suppression here) weather it is a simple one word "I agree/disagree", it is a paragraph, an essay, or a book stating their posistion. Every stakeholder has a right to comment on this issue in the way they see fit no matter how simple or extravagant and if they choose to quote someone's words they have the right to do so, it is done all the time on fake news. I guess we will need to verify that all votes are being counted at the meeting on Nov. 6th.
  24. Gentlemen if you did not know there is a proposed reg change to the steelhead limit on LO to lower it to 2 in the open waters. The DEC currently has a comment period on this change for a 45 day period which already commenced last week. If you would like to read it the info is at http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/115977.html and http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/34113.html If you would like to comment the email address is: [email protected] In the comment line you mus put: 6 NYCRR Part 10 Section 11-0317-Amendents to Great Lakes sportfishery regulation in 6NYCRR Part 10 This is my input, feel free to use any our all of my comments I am opposed the changes in this regulation in regards to limiting the possession limit of steelhead and rainbow trout to just 2 on the open waters of Lake Ontario. I believe that this change will do more harm to the populations survival of this species than good. Most steelhead are caught during the warmer months of the summer by the process of trolling baits, when the surface waters reach their highest temperatures and lowest oxygen content. The stress these fish endure during the process of hooking (in colder deeper water) and landing in these conditions, plus the fact the netting and removing of the hook is a process that must be completed out of the water (unlike the streams where the water temperature is lower and oxygen higher when these fish are available, along with the fish never having to be lifted from the water to be released), puts undo stress on this species especially when handling larger fish. Having an overall limit of 3 fish of any species with only 2 being steelhead, even makes the situation more intolerable since at this time of the year Salmon can/may be harvested in the same open lake waters. Anglers will continue to fish in the same area hoping to catch salmon and may/will continue to catch steelhead and have to release them after the exhausting event of landing them, most likely causing a higher mortality rate. The fact that there are multiple derby’s at this time of the year with the lower, limit it may cause anglers to cull already dead smaller fish if they land a large one that may be eligible for prize money, this will be virtually un-enforceable by the econ-officers since when checked the anglers will only have the 2 fish limit per person on board. With the recent cuts in salmon stocking the past few years, their availability could be drastically reduced forcing more anglers to target steelhead in the coming years putting more pressure on the steelhead population. By lowering it to 2 while still having a 3 overall for the combination limit could/will keep anglers catching steelhead and releasing mortally wounded fish, while if it remains at three most anglers will stop fishing when they reach their combination limit. This will be especially true for professional (Charter Captains) fishermen. So in conclusion this regulation change will cause more mortality in the open lake steelhead population than its intended purpose of trying to increase survival. Bob Songin Forgot to add that anyone can comment on this issue even out of state license holders
×
×
  • Create New...