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Everything posted by reelxite

  1. lets try again here is the PDF 2013_LOU_Highlights_Website.pdf
  2. Rolmops were you able to reach Steve Lapan and if you did how did the the conversation go?
  3. Since you feel strongly about the Powder Mills Hatchery, please pursue this avenue and keep us informed on your progress. The best starting point would be Steve Lapan at Cape Vincent he is the unit leader of Lake Ontario (315)-654-2147. If it looks like a possibility of it becoming a viable option we will gladly support it. But since Caledonia has a proven track record and has the space we will still try to purse it as an option. Good Luck and please keep us up to date.
  4. The problem is not water volume it is water “Temperatureâ€. The pumps that were replaced at SRH were to reuse water that had been circulated through rearing house to the ponds outside. Stocking fish in the state It is illegal unless permitted and controlled by the DEC. Although the browns that are released from Powder Mills can go to the lake they are really intended for opportunities in the creek. The DEC is against anyone raising kings and stocking them in the lake because the feel they lose control. We have suggested this in the past with little success. Guys, that is some great out of the box thinking now how do we convince the DEC to look into these opportunities. Raising other spices at the Powder Mill park hatchery would and could provide opportunities for all anglers. I am sure we will hear some excuse as to why they can’t do it, most likely space.
  5. Yes, all of LO relies on SRH, it is illegal for private hatcheries to stock fish in state waters. If SRH has an issue we are without stocking for 3 years and that includes steelhead. It takes 3 years to re-verify that the hatchery is void of all viruses. Canada does not collect enough eggs or have the facilities to make up for our short fall if SRH has a problem. That is the whole goal to back up SRH and secure the fishery. Caledonia is the best option at this time. As stated in the letters, Salmon river is already treated as 2 separate facilities to prevent any diseases from entering the rearing facility. Moving the eggs to Caledonia would be no different. Everyone must remember that if something happen to SRH it will impact Chinook, Coho’s, Steelhead and Atlantics. I would believe that the stream steelhead and Atlantic guys would be screaming for a back up to.
  6. As stated, we are all in favor of a second site and believe we can acquire the funding and manpower for it with little if no cost to the state. But the DEC continually fights us on the issue and we would need their approval to build it. The reason the hatchery was built at Altmar was due more to political pressure than resource availability.
  7. There is no dam that separates the hatchery from the down stream waters. The dam on the Genny is upstream of the Oatka and not all of Spring Creeks water flows through the hatchery, unless you can stop fish from swimming up stream. Spring creek will always be at risk since the canal does connect to the Genny. We attempted to promote a hatchery and (would prefer that) on the Niagara River, re-licensing moneys from the power plant could have built it, but the DEC fought us. They did not even have to man it the FED's would have done it. The facility could have also been used for an educational center with the local universities. But again they fought it.
  8. Approximately 50% of them are put in the pens on a normal year. Last year for example, Sandy Creek’s project was canceled because the fish were received to late. The water was to warm. If it was too warm to put them in the pens. Then it must be too warm to put them in the creek it self. So potentially that’s100k kings, that may have died, do to late delivery. If not died, did not imprint to Sandy Creek a west end tributary. Olcott put their fish in the pens, but had to release them early because of warm water temps. Oak Ochard and the Genesee held their fish long enough, but flirted with dangerously high temperatures. This again puts stress on the fingerlings. With the cold winter we are having this year we will again be receiving our salmon late. The water temperature issues not being solved at Altmar , will again slow the growth rate of the juvenile kings. In years past, there were times the fingerlings did not even get stocked in the tribs because of dangerously high temps they put them directly in the lake. The use of Caledonia Hatchery would solve this problem.
  9. The DEC letter to us did not publish so I have attached it to this post. Please read this letter after our first communincation with the DEC then our rebuttal last. Thanks Bob Songin Response_Caledonia_Chinook_proposal_1120132.pdf
  10. There has been a move underway from a stakeholders committee to re-install the Caledonia hatchery as a tool in the management of Chinook Salmon in NY State. The DEC is ignoring our latest communication on this matter. I have posted our original letter, their response and our rebuttal. The latest communication from Steve Lapan has been they have nothing more to say. Juts like our Governor ignoring the people. This is also great way to promote the governors fishing and hunting innovative . We have published these communications hoping for feedback and support from the stakeholder community. Nov. 14, 2013 Mr. Steve LaPan Great Lakes Supervisor DEC Lake Ontario Unit Cape Vincent, NY CC: Senator George Maziarz Re: Proposed addition of Caledonia Hatchery as a resource for Chinook Salmon Management in NYS Dear Steve, Caledonia State Fish Hatchery, located on Spring Creek in Caledonia, NY, was founded by Seth Green as the first fish culture facility in the country to help support the management of cold-water fish species (trout) in NY State. Spring Creek was determined to have optimal temperature qualities year round to support cold water fisheries culture management and successfully has for almost 150 years. Because of these qualities, when Chinook Salmon were first introduced to Lake Ontario, it made good sense to use this facility to support this project with great success over the years. With the discovery of VHS (Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia) in 2005 in the Lake Ontario watershed, to prevent the possible spread of this disease to this facility, eggs from the Salmon River hatchery were no longer brought to this facility for rearing starting in 2006. It is believed that the loss of this facility as a resource to support the Chinook salmon fishery has had a detrimental effect on both lake and stream angler success from mid summer on in the Western Basin of Lake Ontario. A Chinook salmon returns to where they were born at the end of their life cycle to spawn and die. Early in their life, the Salmon "imprint" on the chemical composition of the waters where they are to return at maturity to complete their life cycle. The use the Caledonia facility promotes a higher level of imprinting to the western tributaries due to its location in the western drainage basin. Chinook Salmon are the premier fish that anglers across the country come to Lake Ontario to fish for and drive the Western Basin fishery related tourism dollars. Based on a 2010 Niagara County study conducted by Niagara University, the annual economic impact of sportfishing is in excess of $30 million in this county alone! We therefore have continually requested that this facility again be utilized to support the Chinook salmon fishery with little success or cooperation from the DEC. The following statements support why this facility should again be utilized for the support of the Chinook salmon fishery in Lake Ontario: Over the past several years the coldwater fishery-stocking program has experienced more than its fair share of problems, both within the facilities and also from outside factors, which resulted in, reduced stocking levels. DEC has missed the target stocking numbers for Chinook salmon three out of the past five years. The Salmon River Fish Hatchery at Altmar has always had, and continues to have, water temperature issues with drastic temperature swings from mid-summer highs to mid winter lows which prove difficult in the management of the fish in this system. However, through the years, there have been a number of attempts to resolve this issue – including the current project supported financially by the Occidental NRD (natural resource damages) award, which has over $2 million allocated for this project. The problem still remains. Of the 10,000 gallons/minute needed to supply this facility, less the 10% of it is of optimum temperate quality year round for the fish species in this facility. With excessively cold water in the system during the winter months, it has made it difficult for this facility to deliver Chinook salmon as fingerlings to the intended stocking waters in the Western Basin of Lake Ontario in a timely fashion each spring. The more temperate waters of Caledonia Hatchery would provide for a more timely delivery along with a shorter travel distance to the delivery sites. It is bad management practice to have all of our resources (fish and eggs) in one facility. If there is an outbreak of disease, it would be fatally detrimental to the program. The strain of VHS currently present in LO has only been detected in warm water fish species. There has been no issue of infection in cold-water species (salmon or trout). The Erie Canal receives its water from Lake Erie, which is a known source of VHS-positive water. With the Erie Canal being filled with VHS-positive water from Lake Erie, Caledonia Hatchery is already at risk to possible VHS contamination due to its connection to the Erie Canal through the Genesee River, which connects to Oatka Creek and then to Spring Creek Salmon River Fish Hatchery is treated as two separate facilities, one as a collection facility and one as a rearing facility. To prevent the possible spread of disease from one to the other, a disinfectant process was put in place in the collection facility – thus keeping the rearing facility free of the virus. This treatment process would also be effective in the transportation of eggs from Salmon River to Caledonia, keeping Caledonia free of the virus due to egg movement. Currently it is common practice to move eggs and fingerlings from one facility to another. A current example is the movement of both brown trout eggs and fingerlings from the Randolph hatchery to both Caledonia and Rome hatcheries. Caledonia receives its fingerling brown trout from Randolph hatchery in late March; the delivery of Chinook fingerlings to Lake Ontario from Caledonia would occur in early April. Randolph’s trucks are on the road from March through May. Rescheduling of the delivery of brown trout to Caledonia could be shifted with little effect on the overall system. Caledonia as a resource to raise Chinook salmon for stocking in the Western Basin of Lake Ontario has always had a positive influence on the success of the stakeholders of this sporting community. We hope that through your efforts and support that it will again. We hope that you will join with the stakeholders in requesting that the DEC again use this facility to support this program. Sincerely, Capt. Robert Songin President, Lake Ontario Sportfishing Stakeholders Coalition Mike Waterhouse Orleans County Tourism Bill Hilts Niagara County Tourism Capt. Bob Cinelli Hotline Charters Capt. Vince Pierleoni Thrillseeker Charters Capt. Dan Evans Lone Wolf Charters Capt. Jerry Felluca Rebel Charters Capt. Rob Westcott Legacy Charters Joe Yeager President LOTSA Capt Sam Zucco Dream Catcher Charters/Genesee Charter Boat Association Read next post the DEC response: DEC. 23, 2013 Steven R. LaPan Section Head, Great Lakes Fisheries NYSDEC Bureau of Fisheries Cape Vincent Fisheries Station P.O. Box 292, Cape Vincent, NY 13618 CC: Senator George Maziarz Rebuttal to your response of Nov 19, 2013 our letter dated Nov 14, 2013 for the Proposed addition of Caledonia Hatchery as a resource for Chinook Salmon Management in NYS Dear Mr. LaPan After reading your response we don’t agree with your assessment that inclusion of Caledonia, as a site to raise Chinooks would open up the Hatchery system to more risk than already exists. Raising Chinooks at this site would eliminate the largest risks we face, that of losing the entire Lake Ontario stocking of Chinooks due to a disease outbreak at the single rearing site “Salmon River Hatcheryâ€. An event of this kind would devastate the Lake Ontario fishery and the annual revenue it generates throughout that community. Raising Chinooks at Caledonia would mitigate such an event. We appreciate your efforts to protect the hatchery system and the fish stocked in NYS waters against diseases that could possibly contaminant other water systems with in the state. But as you stated no system is risk free of possible contamination. VHS has already been detected in a number of inland bodies of water within the state; it is most likely present in many more and yet undetected. The Erie Canal system along with the many other canal systems within the state provide for a pathway for possible contamination. I am sure there will be no movement to shut these canal systems down, to protect these waters from these pathogens. Infectious Pancreatic Necrosis (IPNV) is also a risk to many bodies of waters, with many sources, of which two are; The virus can be transported and excreted by fish-eating birds and mammals By contact through water routes and by ingestion of infected material. Unless we can stop birds from eating fish and excreting into any body water they fly over and as stated before, shutting down of the state canal system, bodies of water and like wise hatcheries within the state will always be at risk to IPNV. Though Chinook Salmon have been known to be susceptible to Bacterial Kidney Disease (BKD) to this date it has not been detected in this species. Your response to our first letter supports this, stating that it has only been detected in “Wild Steelhead†not the hatchery-raised strain. It has also been communicated to me that most if not all of the wild Chinook salmon do not enter the hatchery system at Salmon River Hatchery (SRH) they remain in the river itself. History proves that Chinook salmon can be successfully raised in the Caledonia Hatchery system and this has been accomplished twice in the past. The second time being halted by the discovery of VHS in Lake Ontario. Sighted in a study titled “Comparative susceptibility of representative Great Lakes fish species to the North American viral hemorrhagic septicemia virus Sublineage IVb" by Robert Kim and Mohamed Faisal. This study showed that cool water fish species (Bass, Yellow perch ex.) were far more susceptible to the virus than cold-water species (Chinook, Coho ex.). Chinook Salmon had to be injected with far higher levels of the virus to cause high levels of fish mortality. It is questionable weather these levels even exist in the open lake environment of Lake Ontario to infect this species. As stated in my first communication VHS has not been detected at the SRH Chinook in all of the years since it has been identified in the lake. Even though the egg sanitation process used at SRH on newly collected eggs does not guarantee internal egg virus decontamination it has proved successful for external use. As stated earlier, to date there has been no positive VHS identification in Chinook at the SRH. As the program manager of the Oak Orchard Pen Rearing project, I am highly knowledgeable of the study performed between 1999-2002 on the contribution of this project to the fishery at Oak Orchard and must disagree with your assessment. This study was performed on three groups of stocked Chinook. Group 1; pen reared Salmon River Hatchery (SHR) fingerlings, Group 2; direct stocked Caledonia fingerlings and Group 3; direct stocked Salmon River Hatchery (SRH) fingerlings. The results of this study found that the Pen reared SR fingerlings out performed the other two groups but Caledonia fingerling far out performed the direct stocked SR fingerlings and were not statistically far behind the SR pen reared fish. The next logical step in this process would have been to evaluate pen reared SRH and pen reared Caledonia strains of Chinook at Oak Orchard, which never happen. We do agree with your statement that “Chinook Salmon are capable of imprinting to the waters where they are stocked providing the stocking occurs prior to the stage where the young salmon undergoes the smolting process†and they are stocked in a timely manner where good temperatures allow the fingerlings to remain in the tributary long enough to smolt. Our belief is that due to the water issues at Salmon River Hatchery this is not happening on a consistent basis with-in your current management practices. As stated in the study “2003 Interim Evaluations of Pen-Reared Steelhead and Chinook Salmon†by D.L. Bishop, M.J. Sanderson, M.A. Wilkinson. “Caledonia-reared Chinook grow faster than those at Salmon River Hatchery due to warmer water temperature, and must be stocked earlier than Salmon River fish to avoid smolting in the hatchery.†“Caledonia fish may have an advantage at sites like Oak Orchard which warm more rapidly in the springâ€. This would also include sites like 18 Mile Creek, Sandy Creek and the Genesee River to name a few. Salmon Rivers colder water temperatures during the winter months retard the growth rate of the fingerlings to be stocked in these faster warming tributaries causing later deliveries to these sites. These latter deliveries have an impact on project success by limiting the time the fingerlings can be held in the pens and also by the warmer temperatures in which we must hold them. Even at times causing the cancellation of part or the entire project at some sites. Holding these fish later could also be causing a higher mortality after release. As for the harvest results the data does in fact show higher rates of Chinook salmon catch and harvest over the past 11 consecutive years, but that can be attributed more to the advent of modern communications and increased angler skill than an increase in angler opportunity. Modern communications, including both the Internet and cell phones helps keep anglers more informed with where the fish are and techniques to catch them than ever before in history. Also trough the use of the new tagging/marking trailer acquired by monies from the Occidental NRD award it is becoming evident that 50% or more of the fish harvested in the open lake are naturally reproduced and the lions share of these natural fish have been determined to come from the Salmon River along with the over 360,00 fish stocked in the Salmon River from the hatchery. These fish returning there in the late summer and early fall, limits the angler opportunities from the Niagara River to Genesee River (the western basin) at this time of the year. Fish raised and stocked from the Caledonia hatchery would help eliminate this problem since they would not move east in the late summer and early fall. So again we request that the Caledonia Hatchery be placed back on line as a source for the rearing and stocking of Chinook Salmon in the Western basin of Lake Ontario to help resolve these many issues. Sincerely, Capt. Robert Songin President, Lake Ontario Sportfishing Stakeholders Coalition Mike Waterhouse Orleans County Tourism Bill Hilts Niagara County Tourism Capt. Bob Cinelli Hotline Charters Capt. Vince Pierleoni Thrillseeker Charters Capt. Dan Evans Lone Wolf Charters Capt. Jerry Felluca Rebel Charters Capt. Rob Westcott Legacy Charters Joe Yeager President LOTSA Capt Sam Zucco Dream Catcher Charters/Genesee Charter Boat Association
  11. I have some pens at the Oak that need repair. I would need the work done say mid to late March just before we put them together. Ours are made of 2 and 1 inch aluminum piping. I know that this is an issue because of the process. We should be able to put them inside to have the work done. But you have to be mobile and come to us. This is not a volunteer the job, it will be compensated. We are just looking for a fair price and a good job. Contact Bob Songin at 585-733-5829 or [email protected]
  12. Thanks Vince will do, and thanks Tom for the support.
  13. We have a number of particapants stepping up to support this event as sponsors over and above the entry fees that will be required to register. It would be nice to see others do the same. They are: Mark Lewsi - Devonian -$500 Richard Hajecki -Yankee Troller - $200 Gerry Felluca -Rebel - $200 Paul Czarnecki - Free Spirit - $200 Bob Songin - Reel Excitement - $200
  14. We have a number of particapants stepping up to support this event as sponsors over and above the entry fees that will be required to register. It would be nice to see others do the same. They are: Mark Lewsi - Devonian -$500 Richard Hajecki -Yankee Troller - $200 Gerry Felluca -Rebel - $200 Paul Czarnecki - Free Spirit - $200 Bob Songin - Reel Excitement - $200
  15. The friday event is the Condor, just to eliminate confusion the Shongo is the event 4c's runs latter in the year.
  16. Had 3 guys today, fished 85 fow, wall to lakeside, went 9/13 all kings, all males, all fin clipped. Spinners and flies. Purple spinners and A-Tom-Mik purple miragies
  17. So we are ready to go for reports at the "at the Oak" site, I was in Wilson for the whole month of May till June 2nd then the Orleans Pro/Am and the Tight Lines Tourney in Canada so since I was not fishing "at the Oak" I had very little information to share. Just got back yesterday and did some scouting today. Along with Capt. Bob from "Sunrise II" I can get you some info. I will be back to posting as often as I can so check out the site for up to date inforamtion.
  18. I would like to thank everyone for showing up and helping put the pens together last Saturday I under stand it was a beautiful day to get it done. I would especially like to thank Mark Lewis (Devonian) for his help in coordinating the event in my absence he did a great job. I will be sending out the fish delivery dates as soon as they are firmed up. Thanks again for everyone's support for the project. Capt. Bob Songin Reel Excitement Charters
  19. Just a reminder; We will be getting the pens put together for this year on Saturday April 6th. I will be out of town that weekend but Mark Lewis has graciously agreed to coordinate the event. So please meet him at Lake Breeze Marina at 8 AM Saturday April 6th to lend a hand. We expect our fish delivery some any time after that date and will keep everyone informed as when we will receive them. Thanks for everyone help. Capt. Bob Songin Reel Excitement Charters
  20. As I sit here and write this it is snowing out side, but the calendar says its time to think about fishing and this years pen rearing project. We would like to get the pens put together for this year on the first Saturday in April which is the 6th. I will be out of town that weekend but Mark Lewis has graciously agreed to coordinate the event. So please meet him at Lake Breeze Marina at 8 AM Saturday April 6th to lend a hand. We expect our fish delivery some any time after that date and will keep everyone informed as when we will receive them. Thanks for everyones help. Capt. Bob Songin Reel Excitement Charters
  21. I am highly disappointed with quality of the big water ugly sticks I bought for Lake Ontario Salmon fishing. I spent over $1000 on a number of rods that I believed would be a superior product only to find that in normal use they could not hold up to the riggers of big salmon. Last August I decide to replace all of my yellow rigger rods with the 8" 3" ugly stick trolling rods since then 6 of them have broken. The retailer and wholesaler stood behind them for the first year but now are referring me to the manufacture who I have found out will not stand behind their product which claimed to have a 5 year warranty. Pretty sad for what was suppose to be a quality company. I suggest everyone stay away from this product.
  22. 1985 Tiara 31 OPEN fresh water boat, Excellent mechanically, very well taken care of, located Lake Ontario Point Breeze inside winter stored. New gelcoat in cockpit, equipped with Sea Star 770 Auto Pilot, Raymarine DS600X digital fish finder, Raymarine 425 GPS, 840 Fish Hawk, aluminum radar arch with 14 Lee rod holders, Lee Jr. outrigger holders with 19-foot Lee outriggers, multiple canvas options, Tri-axel 15000 lb GVW Tow Master trailer $28,000. Call Bob Songin at 585-733-5829 email [email protected]
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