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King Davy

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  1. Yeah Bob nobody wishes this prey situation would right itself anymore than I and I’m sure everyone feels that way. It’s not just that good salmon fishing takes pressure off steelhead, it’s the solid runs of kings into rivers that attract steelhead from the lake months before they are actually ready to spawn. To include non spawning scout rainbows that are attracted to the dinner table of eggs and flesh. I’ve spent a lot of time in the last 20 years all over Alaska. There’s a reason that king salmon and sockeye are the sacred saviors of those fisheries. They feed the trout and re-fertilize the habitat. I know you guys will catch steelhead off shore. You guys have every right to. Bob I believe this reg is trying to balance the heat they’re going to take if the salmon fishing gets difficult. You and I lived through this last time. And you and I and many others had to fish for all species cause the salmon numbers were down. And reading the reg rational that’s what it looks like. The guys I fish with and or are acquaintances have no ill feelings towards guys fishing the lake and how they fish or what they fish for. But we still want a shot at these marvelous game fish throughout the fall, winter and spring. I truly believe that DEC is trying to keep both environments viable especially through this difficult bait fish situation. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  2. Yup I’ve met him. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  3. Not saying question shouldn’t be welcome. Saying the nasty behaviors yelling and all that has gone on at some of these meetings is highly unprofessional and not very civilized. And if you’ve been to enough of them then you’ve seen it. We have to respect each other. Then and only then do we have a true partnership. DEC is a group of appointed positions, yes by elected officials but do we not think a measure of due diligence is enacted to make those appointments? Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  4. One other thing. DEC is under no obligation to hold all these public meetings, to show up to be scrutinized by those who don’t like their news. They do it because they care what we think. I know they listen and consider our feed back. BUT... they have a lot of data, 51 years of past history that has tendencies with results that match up with past, existing, and probable future results to govern their management decisions. They will be the first ones to tell you not every decision they’ve made was dead on perfect, but they’ve had a lot more wins than loses. They are up against the ultimate player. Who always gets the best hand ....Mother Nature. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  5. Rick, I guess you should ask DEC these questions. However They can’t participate in coming on this site. So ask to speak to them. I’ve put what my “assumptions” are on why the current proposal. But I’m guessing. I’m guessing at what would make sense to me on why, which included the history of the 90’s early 2000 when the steelhead fishery in the tribs ultimately went south because of the increased harvest on the lake due to diminished salmon fishing success. Serious shortfalls of steelhead to the hatchery back in those days. The crash of the adult steelhead fishery in 2014, and 15 from the poisonous alewives. We still haven’t fully recovered to the fishing we had before the die off. Finally everyone who attended any state of the lake meetings saw the statement DEC led the presentation with. They recognize the two marquee species targeted by all stakeholders both lake and tribs are king salmon in the lake and steelhead in our rivers. Which makes up the majority of the interest in our 12 month a year sport fishery. From the very beginning of this program in the late 60’s has this been the basis of management strategy. Again my take... right, wrong, or indifferent is that in the face of another probable down turn in salmon fishing success after three years of cuts, (and we all await what’s next) still trying to get the steelhead fishery fully on its feet, they are trying to manage for opportunity in that year long sport fishery. It’s clear there are many that don’t agree with this direction. But I know we can’t get this back to where everyone is happy until we get through this predator prey issue and have full salmon stocking again. That takes pressure off trout species, allowing pretty stellar fishing all year long. I am 100% in agreement that the fishery only becomes fabulous again if we have a full fledged king salmon program. Everything else falls into place when that’s good. Last thing, our fishery managers, scientists, biologists, technicians, and staff have kept this fishery viable for 51 years through all these obstacles. At what point are you naysayers going to trust the professionals they are? Every other Great Lakes fishery has crashed hard, except this one. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  6. Just a couple of corrections here. The 25” size limit is up for comment that is a tributary reg only. Does not include the open waters of Lake Ontario. Lake stays at 21”. Clarification- Bob’s statement in the copy of one of his posts above that “they” are now coming for our lake creel on steelhead. The “they” is not the tributaries stakeholders. He knows as well as everyone else in that room we never asked for a creel reduction in the lake. We did seek the 25” limit for lake and tribs and it was not accepted. DEC took all the discussion from the panel, held several internal meetings with regional managers and staff, also looked at past history of what other domino’s fell during the last round of King salmon cuts from the 90’s to early 2000’s. The steelhead fishery on the rivers was bleak at best returns to the hatchery impacted and they came back with this regulation. That’s how we got to this point. Anybody who thinks trib stakeholders went in demanding creel cuts on the lake is simply misinformed. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  7. There are dozens of web boards up and down the lake from tackle shops to lodging, etc that have daily fishing reports on all these rivers not to mention Instagram, FB etc. DEC is doing stream creel surveys this year from 18 mile to the Black River. Talked to the young lady last week who was touring the western tribs. She’s done 800 interviews on Sandy alone since first of Sept. There are articles in river fishing magazines that name many rivers in this area. The salmon river , save the Kenai in Alaska is the busiest river in the US. I used to get annoyed when these waterways were mentioned but in reality it’s public news every single day. There is no stopping it. I spend a lot of my fall time fishing the sound for bass and tuna or the FL because I can’t get close to the LO smaller or medium size rivers and spend most of my time fishing them once the weather gets nasty. And this year winter started first of November. Crowded rivers are a lot harder to fish then a busy day on the lake. But it’s a lost cause to sit around waiting for people to go away. Just go, set your expectations realistically and fish. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  8. Except for some brook trout ponds deep in the Adirondacks. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  9. Yeah the horse has been out of the barn for many many years on any secret spots in any of our LO tribs. I can walk away from crowds on some waterways and do, but since social media those days are over. However you can share fish locations in the lake to include Lat Lon numbers and you can still find room to fish because they are always swimming. If you want to fish any river in the Great Lakes including Canada you are never going to be lonely. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  10. The state TU meeting was also attended by DEC. We are involved in several river and stream rehab projects with them across the state. Get a hold of the bureau chief of fisheries and ask him how I handled my presentation. Completely on the up and up sticking to the facts. The general council made a motion to have TU officially support these regs. I rescinded the motion explaining that DEC was simply looking for individual stake holders to comment with their personal experiences and why they either supported or not any of the regs. Not just the lake Steelhead reg. Feel free to friend me on FB and you’ll read the comments from attendees that after my talk appreciated why this isn’t a TU state or National initiative. This was about trib anglers and there are many that are TU members that fish the LO tribs. From all over NYS. This was simply an awareness presentation and truthfully many we’re already aware and had previously commented. Everyone who enjoys this fishery has a right to have knowledge of current events and can get involved if they choose to. Especially those that don’t live along the lake shore and can get to a meeting from the Catskills, Adirondacks, LI, NYC etc. It was that simple.
  11. Yes there is a combination of pens owned by sites and pens owned by DEC. DEC has funds for pen materials and they got us materials to have two pens built last year for the Oak Steelhead. Seth Green TU did offer to pay for them but DEC had budgeted for them. So they incurred the cost. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  12. Gill you should call the hatchery, ask for Fran or Tom the hatchery manager. They can explain how they house fish. You have two species that stay in the hatchery for over a year. You can imagine this question has been asked several times. Best to get the word from the guys that run the show. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  13. Gill there is no capacity left to raise more steelhead. They live in a hatchery for over a year. Salmon has no more room. Caledonia is out from whirling disease, and the other hatcheries are at capacity. Bob and Glen you raised the subject that I’ve mentioned several times in this thread. We know Salmon fishing should get tougher over the next couple years because of the stocking cuts. You guys know that I fall on the side of believing the science and data collected by DEC, USGS, and MNR on the bait fish assessment. Having said that it would look like to me more cuts for 2020. Question is, will it be deeper, the same or say back to only 20%? Either way five straight years of cuts will have an impact. You saw a post earlier from a drift boat And lake Capt. The impact on steelhead fishing in the tribs after the 93 salmon stocking cuts was monumental. I’m truly not sugar coating this. Today we have a huge stakeholder crush on the tribs all fall winter and spring of anglers fishing for steelhead. So the reg is trying to curb the impact of what is going to have to be more pressure on steelhead, brown trout and lake trout, if and when the salmon fishing gets harder. As far as fishing this year, I’m out an average of four out of seven days a week since Labor Day. Fishing hasn’t been nearly as good as last year. Now to level set I’m employing the least effect way to catch a fish by choosing to swing a streamer to bring the fish to the fly for that thunderous strike. It’s been way harder than last year. But I’m fishing around bait and gear guys on the Salmon, Maxwell, Salmon creek, Mill, Irondequoit, Genny, Sandy, the Oak and Johnson. And Lindsey and I have out fished them which rarely happens bait VS swinging several times. Which means we may together catch three or four fish. However there is a few reasons for the slower fishing. And don’t get me wrong you can find pockets of fish and have a good day. Number one other than the huge run of Salmon Labor Day on the Salmon we had a real drought from Labor Day until end of Oct. so we’ve had salmon and trout trickle in instead of being induced by higher flows. The canal feed has helped some, but again not a massive move of fish. Linds and I hosted two excellent anglers from Virginia this same weekend last year. They are gear guys fishing hardware. We had them in the Irondequoit and Sandy. In three days last year they landed 20 to 25 browns and a few steelhead. They are back in town and after two days fishing Sandy, the Oak and Johnson... they’ve landed one brown trout. On the Genny with the turbines down again now till spring there are some better numbers of fish near the falls and real spotty down where you can wade easier. And then there is much colder water this year as you can imagine than normal with the early onset of winter in Nov. Do I believe the fish are out there? I do, because we know the salmon fishing has been so good last year and much of 2019, that less pressure was put on our trout. But in years where we have poor flows, and less than stellar salmon runs the trout aren’t induced into rivers in hordes at one time. They’ll trickle in all winter long. As far as brown trout if the creeks and rivers aren’t flowing well enough they’ll spawn anywhere from estuaries to actually spawning at river mouths. If there are continued stocking cuts it will be more difficult for lake anglers fishing salmon. Coupled with if this lake steelhead reg is enacted brings more difficulty. At the same time as lake anglers May harvest more browns and steelhead it will have a direct downturn on trib fishing. And when after Oct in many of our tribs you only have one species to target all the way to the end of April. steelhead. It’s not a situation any of us want to be in. It looks inevitable. And this has all happened before. One last important item. When the steelhead fishing hit the skids in the 90’s and early 2000’s, the Hatchery had some real dicy years trying to recruit enough fish to get their eggs to continue the program at or near its capacity. We are all going to endure some tougher fishing conditions. Trib steelhead enthusiasts just went through this with the die offs in 14 and 15. I think we’ll have to because if the DEC is right we need to take pressure off the bait fish awhile longer. Meaning more challenges each time we hit the open water or a river. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  14. Ok can’t help myself Bob so tongue in check pen rearing or not you are saying steelhead have always been a greater benefit for trib environments so then the steelhead reg would be an improved path forward to benefit the tributary fishing of Lake Ontario! Ok nuff fooling around on this. Have a good night Bob. I know some of you guys would never want to do this. But I’d rather get away from the WWW, find a pub someplace and get together for a beer. We can still yell at each other, but more fun face to face. Some of us might actually like each other. First round is on me. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
  15. Bob, so taking the pens away because of salmon stocking cuts takes away opportunity for others for a different species that wasn’t cut to where both lake and trib guys could benefit from hopefully getting fish to home in to a local river. What sense does that make? And I’m not blaming Rob or anyone else for the message. So here’s the question. Let’s say DEC continues cuts this next year maybe even deeper. Those pens staying dry docked or will they be put to use for some good for the entire fishery? Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
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