Lucky13

Monroe County Planning sent a representative to the Fisheries Advisory Board meeting last night, and the board (or the few that were there, it is always hard to get a quorum in summer) and Matt Sanderson of NYSDEC all agreed that from the Fishing Community perspective, the number one needed improvement was to update the lake shore launch facilities so that they are adaptable not only to the "new Highs" but also to the possible lower lows we can see when the uplakes supply drops and we don't have record rains in the spring.  It was noted that many of the private marina facilities are still doing a lot of launch business because they have invested in floating docks, while all the fixed docks at Public launches are virtually unusable and the launches are closed and off limits even if someone want to use their chest waders to access their boat.  We'll see what happens.

It will either float out deeper and eventually break up, or it will wash up at Ontario Beach (Charlotte) where George, the Mechanical Equipment Operator will break it up and haul it away.  They have been floating down to the beach for years, although I suspect the large size of this one is related to undercutting of the cattail mat by the high water level and the wave action up Salmon Creek, which is not impacted by the nearly submerged headlands breakwater installed by the USACE.   Without that breakwater reducing some of the wave force, we may have seen a much greater loss of mats off the bay face of the marsh, which was losing about an acre a year on average.  It is going to be interesting to see what kind of damage the breakwater has sustained in all this " aqueous plentitude." 

I saw one hauling a tube under the bay bridge the other day, no regard for his very large wake especially from the tube.  Hefty revenue stream for the County Sheriff if they get the boats out!

18 hours ago, rdebadts said:

Lucky, I just can’t subscribe to the notion that all children should avoid all fish from all ny waters. That is essentially the blanket recommendation, with very very few exceptions. The problem is it just isn’t borne out for most species in most waters, if viewed individually... at least based on the scientific literature I’ve reviewed. Just because a 40 lb bottom feeding carp may have borderline levels doesn’t mean that every other single fish in that entire body of water is unsuitable to eat. That’s asinine, but that IS the extraordinarily conservative approach of my state. In fact, most of these fish are similar in bioaccumulation to frequently consumed ocean fish.


The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

A lot of people still smoke cigarettes, too.  I have not seen data for ocean fish (and for Lake Ontario, I think we all have yet to see the most recent data DEC has gathered under a GLRI grant, and NYSDOH participated in a three state study that I have yet to see published, making me wonder if they didn't get " the right answer") but my understanding is that fish that stay littoral especially off population centers, are just as contaminated, but offshore and faster growing fish are way below lake fish in contaminants.  I know what you mean about most waterbodies being " off limits" for children, basically the entire Adirondack region makes the list now, but mercury is well documented in its negative effects.

And there are lots of studies about negative impacts of endocrine disrupting chemicals on developing organisms including humans.

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 2:07 PM, jimski2 said:

The worship of large fish with money contests and media reports contributed to consumption of unhealthy amounts of chemicals. Harvesting smaller fish like perch should be promoted for consumption rather than the taking larger specimens that should be released.


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This is just so wrong.  Salmon and trout are oily fish, high  in Omega 3 fatty acids.  They are an exceptional food fish.  They are also mainly supported as a managed fishery, through stocking, so harvest is in no way a threat to the population if kept to the legal limits.  If there were no issues with bioaccumulation of legacy contaminants, I'd be packing a freezer to whatever extent I could.  This is not to deny that perch are wholesome protein and delicious, but they do not have the high levels of Omega 3's.  They also contain similar concentrations of the same contaminants as trout and salmon at the same age, not size, so they pose the same health risks as Trout and salmon from the contaminated waterbody and should not be eaten by children and women of child bearing age.  In the Adirondaks, perch over 12" are listed as contaminated with mercury in virtually all waterbodies, but the trout don't accumulate the mercury at the same rate as the perch, and are still somewhat safe (although the warning is the same, if ANY fish is listed for a waterbody,  children and women of child bearing age should eat NONE from that waterbody.

Andy Todd from Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources  said their data indicates the salmon basically start living off themselves and going off the feed in early August, so if you want large salmon to eat, you are better going now until the end of the month.  Eating quality of non feeding fish declines a little more each day.  That said, I have seen silver kings ascending the Salmon River in late august, and they smoked up fine.  And the decline in eating quality seems to accelerate the closer to spawning and the longer they have not been feeding, so brighter fish in early September will still be edible, but as Capt Rich says, out deeper for younger fish will provide better eating. 

Monocultural cattail stands are often "floating" on a slurry of bottom mud and bay water, and little islands of cattail  were commonly encountered anywhere from just east of the bay mouth all the way to Ontario Beach prior to the wetlands project at Braddock.  While the Headlands Breakwater is supposed to reduce the amount of wave action breaking off the cattail mats, it is likely that erosion is being exacerbated along the Salmon Creek channel by the higher water.  Maybe you saw one of these. From discussion with a major birder in the area, a blind would not be necessary, the birds started coming to the headlands before they were even completed 

The biggest thing to remember is that the risks to women of child bearing age, and children and teeners, are much greater than for adult men and post menopausal women, and the high risk group should still consume NO fish of ANY species from ANY water body where there is ANY advisory for the lower risk group.  The advisories, which are issued by NYSDOH, not DEC, are based on risks of cancer, mutation, and birth defects found in laboratory animals, but do not include the much more insidious  possible effects of disruption of the endocrine system of developing organisms, i.e. children, and there are a lot of studies indicating this, although the best quantification of the risk has been "Eat  None." 

Based on what Jeff and Dawn Dittman have said, they have a tendency to wander, so the old "in to spawn out to feed" model doesn't always apply to the sturgeon.  Juveniles  like the area from Veteran's down to St Bernard's, fortunately there is almost no bank access in that stretch, so little pressure on the tykes.  The bigger ones appear to go out to the lake, wander back in, swim up other tribs (one was recaptured in the Niagara with Genesee tags), they have no consistent pattern other staying pretty shallow, and the now mature males reappearing in numbers around when they expect that gravid female to appear.  And that should be in the next couple of years, at which point we will finally get some idea as to whether this is going to take off permanently or not.

Word of mouth, information in the baitshops,  and the stenciling at the piers and launches has gotten the word out to most that these fish should be released immediately, and certainly should not be targeted to begin with.  The subsistence population is still a challenge, but the recreational guys seem to have gotten the message quite well.

14 hours ago, Gill-T said:

I have never aggravated anyone. 

Never been married, huh?

As to the dead fish on Canandaigua, did you call NYSDEC?   It is likely a thermal inversion  (localized), as the species you see undergo thermal stress from rapid upwellings of cold water, but they will likely want to know about it.

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:31 AM, Ray4852 said:

I started the walleye talk on this thread. years ago we had a nice walleye fishery on canadagua lake. I  saw the tail end of it during the later 60s. it was very popular on that lake. the old timers fished for them at night with lights hanging over the boat. they caught nice size walleye and trout there. the walleye and trout manage to live together.  lake trout in that lake were big. plenty of bait. as the lake started to develop around the lake the walleye fishing decline and the fishery died out. our fingers lakes today is mostly trout and some panfish. I think the DEC could take one of these lakes and turn it in to a walleye lake no trout just walleye add the right bait and see what happens. keuka and canadagua I think could work. we need a good walleye lake. just a thought. we need a good walleye lake in one of these finger lakes. I think we have enough trout. walleye are good eating. the local economy would benefit too. 

Do you really believe that DEC should eliminate all competing species, even ones that are native, in order to stock one that is marginal in that habitat, or even think that it would be possible, not to mention cost effective?  There are walleye lakes, Oneida and Chautauqua immediately come to mind, oh, and Conesus, lets see, shallower, warmer, than the "standard" oligotrophic steep sided cold watered Finger Lake.  Or maybe we should turn one of the natural walleye lakes into a trout lake for the locals around there unwilling to travel to a Finger Lake, and unhappy with those big perch.  Or, why not do as close to what Ma Nature set up to begin with.  Or I want the guvment to install a trout stream in MY backyard!!!

Nice Victrola!

Where would they get alewives to use to stock the Lake?  DEC ( Steve LaPan) says if they used all of NYS Hatchery capacity to raise alewives they could feed Lake Ontario for 8 days.  Keuka is a lot smaller, but it would take a really "big pond" to raise enough alewife, and alewife have temperature and habitat needs (cold, pelagic expanses with phytoplankton and zooplankton for food) that  are "challenging" to replicate artificially.  Also, Ciscoes are native to the system, and USF+WS has been successful at raising them in conventional hatchery facilities.  The symptom of the problem in Keuka is skinny, young lake trout in large numbers, indicative of insufficient bait, and maybe underharvest.  The DEC solution is eliminate  stocking of the fast growing silvers ( RT, BT, and LLS) to take some of the heat off the remaining bait, and attempt to "jumpstart" a native preyfish.  If the bait comes back, so will the silvers.  But first I think they want to see the lakers , which are indigenous to the lake, showing better condition. 

Seneca and Kueka are both oligotrophic, steep sided deep cold well oxygenated and relatively deficient in nutrients.  IF they were natural habitat for walleyes the fish would be there.  Walleyes have not been stocked for a long time in Hemlock Lake, and yet there is a residual population that survives through natural reproduction.  Seneca is attached to the canal system and there are lots of Walleyes in there, they would be in Seneca if they found it to their liking ( and probably are to some extent, but maybe not enough for anyone to target them.)

I can bring a sixpack!  Whaler can probably make popcorn!

12 hours ago, jimmac said:

Great post. Its amazing that a thread starts as a heads up on proper safety gear turns into a comedy about cnn, left wing radicals, the communist party, canadians taking your boat, smart phones vs dumb phones, dropping sh@t, flares burning you, cell phone batteries, etc. Who needs reality tv...its all right here.

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No "Dueling Banjos" in the background, though!

There are major concerns in Quebec about the possible impacts of stray Coho that are finding their ways into the Atlantic Salmon Rivers of the Gaspe Peninsula. They didn't come from New Jersey!

3 hours ago, baitballin86 said:

. So please go **** yourself i have been ripping since 21


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That pretty much sums it up right there!   Good luck!

Are you maybe putting the cart in front of the horse if you are paying all that money and travel cost to get a captain's license and you have to ask for advice here?  The Coast Guard is only licensing you to safely take people for a boat ride for money, they don't care what you know about fish or catching them.  But it is likely that your customers will want YOU to know what you are doing.  Do you think the learning curve is that short, start in 2019 and be chartering in 2020?  I suppose you could do what a lot of guys did in the late 70's, drag lines around for a bunch of hours, then find bottom and 55 and get them a couple of Lake Trout.  Most of the guys I knew who did that washed out of the guiding business in a couple of years, the  guys who can consistently fill the box with salmon have pad a LOT of dues to get to where they are.  Just sayin'

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:30 PM, thork9 said:

Not really, SP will rescue but in the mean time it’s a money grab state just started having forest rangers out on snowmobile trails writing tickets, lots of them. State figured they can make more money that way, it isn’t for safety on the trails. I know some of them and that’s what I’m told. There told to go out on a weekend and write as many as possible . Why do you think they write for no helmet, seatbelt, it’s not for safety, it’s MONEY sure charge etc.

Certainly the money is a great benefit to the State, helps to defray the costs of scraping some of the idiots who don't wear helmets or belts off trees, get some of the one who don't buy permits or register their machines, you know, the morons who tar all snowmobilers with a bad name and think it is their god given right to do so.  I personally think all these fines should triple. 

15 hours ago, jimski2 said:

The falls flow is maxed up to politician determined number for tourist season. The rest of the water is used for power demand. The unused water is pumped into reservoirs to supply power for high demand periods. The Saint Lawrence Power project supplied power to the Massena aluminum plant that was closed and shipped to Canada. Any more power needed comes from Somerset coal burning plant. Last year it operated for three days. Oswego nuclear plants supply some power to the grid. The lights in New York City will burn bright every night at the cheapest cost.

 

 

 

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None of this has any impact on the level on the water in either Lake Ontario or Lake Erie.   There is no control for water flow in the Niagara River, the power plant just moves the water through a different channel, it still ends up back in the river, and then in the lake, and any storage is insignificant in relation to the total flow of the Niagara River.

Gorgeous Fish!  I am always amazed that a fish that is so beautiful this time of year comes back in 3 months as some black flabby mudshark!  And that is one fine lake trout. 

If they open the gates too much too quickly, they flood all the homes along the St Lawrence as well, Lake St Aliice and all that.

If it is not possible for a producer to remove all the toxic chemicals from their waste stream, maybe the product should not be produced.  The days where part of the cost of production gets passed to the neighbors should be ancient history in NYS.  This is definitely one to write to DEC about, and copy your representatives in as well.