Lucky13

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 6:43 AM, Gator said:

This topic has got me on a strange train of thought. I have a 17 yr old daughter, and she has some anxiety issues. I was concerned at first, until I realized that everyone her age has anxiety issues, and that she's probably one of the most put-together young women in her peer group. So, why all these kids carrying the world on their shoulders? I think that it's because we've become a society that is dominated by rules, and every time you screw up it is immediately public via social media. They rarely have a chance to relax and, as Justin says, just have fun. Even when they're having fun, they're consumed by how what they're doing fits in with the world. We all worry to some degree about appearances. They worry to the umpteenth degree. 

 

Here, we are a group of fishermen (and women) having a friendly over rules of the road. Years ago, you would have taken a boating course, immediately forgotten it, and life would go on. Instead, we now have a thread that goes on for pages. This isn't a bad thing, but it is the sort of thing that kids do regarding their whole life: they micro-dissect ever part of it, put it out in public for debate, then spend the rest of their time worrying about what they did or didn't do. 

 

Okay, sorry to hijack this thread. It got me thinking, and that's dangerous sometimes. Tight lines.

Well said. 

But isn't this another example of us being dominated by rules?  Next you'll have to have your boater's insurance card along with your safety certificate!

I'm concerned because I took Hunter Safety a couple of years ago (I thought it would be a good idea before going back into the woods with a firearm after about 40 years of not hunting), and it took me "forever" to find a course that hadn't hit capacity almost as soon as it was announced.  I also am not crazy about additional taxes and fees, we are already being taxed to death in the great Emperor's Empire State.  Make it free for the course, and free for the certificate, hold the classes in High School gyms, I'm there with a PFD on!!!! 

No one owns up to putting them in Conesus, It was said years ago that they came in through bait buckets.  Likely the same for all the Fingers that are not attached to the Seneca Canal, where they could have come in from the Oswego River from LO.  I'm actually surprised that Skaneatles escaped this biological pollution.

It is possible to have fair to good trout fishing in many of the tributaries after April 15, but if the opener gets pushed back to then, it will no longer be possible and those later fish that get almost no pressure now would suddenly be being removed when they should be spawning.  After the first week in April, the tribs I fish see almost no one except on Saturday AM.  At least the Region 8 wide one fish limit does seem to be thinning the "fill the freezer" crowd a little bit, but the incorrigible lifters don't follow the limits either when they can get away with it.  I'd like to see a LOT more ECO presence on opening day and for a while thereafter.  Of course, a change in attitude on the part of " sportsmen" so that lifters were generally shunned and ostracized might help, but does not seem likely in the new me-first "Twitter America."

That is certainly true when you consider the new "rules" for where the ECO's can work and can't work.  But I have seen a complete willingness on the part of the Lake Ontario unit to work with all stakeholders, to vet the metrics used for tracking the fishery, and to modify it when valid criticisms are levelled.  A  quality control program that examined every part that came off the line would put a manufacturer out of business, but the LO folks have worked diligently to get a doable and manageable monitoring program, it has been examined by an outside group (NY Sea Grant), is accepted by the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, and it has been run for years now accumulating one of the more amazing datasets in the history of fisheries science.  Everyone loves it and rah rahs when it produces the numbers they want to see and hear.  When it produces less rosy pictures, everyone goes back to looking at their graph and second guessing the science, and lambasting the biologists.

As for the salt, the real environmental damage happens after it is applied to the roads.  Why are southern cars so desirable on the used market?  No rust.  The bridges around Monroe County are all starting to rot away.  The salt.  Even concrete is attacked by the stuff.  But you can't ask upstate urban drivers to slow down and brake sooner, and cut application to just hills, everyone has to get to Target faster!  The aquifers under Monroe County have a salinity similar to brine, same thing under Toronto, let's hope we never have to go underground for drinking water. 

5 hours ago, justtracytrolling said:

You guys have me missing the mountains!  Spent a lot of summers driving back and forth every chance I had with my canoe and tent.  Had my son's birthday up there every year for a decade camping, hiking, and fishing.  No more canoes for me, but I better get my butt back up to chase those Tupper eyes at least!  Thanks for posting...puts things in perspective about what's important for me anyway 😉.  If anyone is a paddler do yourself a favor and do the Saranac river from Saranac lake to Franklin falls pond.... always caught smallies and pike in the river and jigged walleye in Franklin falls pond right below the permanent rapids.  Then camp at moose pond...just over the ridge from lake placid.  KNOW the rules though as the rangers take things seriously.  There was never anyone fishing just the odd canoe or kayak.

Great trout fishing in the permanent rapids, too!  My wife and I honeymooned in Wilmington, and went back for a week for a few years after, and Francis Betters, who I had showed around the Salmon River, sent us over to the Saranac as an alternative to the West Branch.  Unfortunately, Franklin Falls Pond is one of the more mercury contaminated waters up there, a lot of the locals won't even fish it anymore.  The stretch between Franklin Falls Pond and Union Falls Pond, especially right below the Powerhouse used to be " the larder" for a lot of folks that lived around there.

And New York does decide what it's limits are, but Lake Ontario is not just in New York, or even in the USA, it is an international waterbody.  How are the Canadians about border issues in the Niagara and the St Lawrence when they get a bug about something New York has pulled?  New York has wisely followed a collaborative path on its fisheries and objectives.  Lake Michigan has some serious problems if the loose cannons included state agencies, or maybe you've forgotten how close you came to an all out crash once before.

They make solar chargers for the cell phone, and if you leave it in your pocket most of the time, it can be a very handy tool if the boat breaks down or someone gets injured. 

Don't forget the Lime for the Privy! 

Illinois and Wisconsin are US states and Lake Michigan is totally in the USA.  Lake Ontario is an international waterway, so decisions on management involve the Canadian opinion as much as the New York opinion.  And the Federal government has input and jurisdiction as well.  Since Lake trout are one of the indicators for the Lake Ontario LaMP, it is unlikely that regulations will change to allow more harvest, at least until natural reproduction ramps up a lot further than it has been doing.  And, although they were forced by hatchery problems, there have been cuts to LO lake trout stocking.

I've been going to the Adirondacks for about 55 years.  I just returned from 2 weeks in a camp in Eagle Bay on the Fulton Chain.  I got three days back in the Moose River Plains, I would have gone in for the whole 2 weeks, but my wife's idea of roughing it anymore is when you can't get HBO on the cable.  It is so intoxicating and relaxing at the same time that, despite investing in a season Dark Side pass for Douglaston, for this year, I'll take a chance on missing the coho run to get at least three nights camping before early bear opens.  It is true that it is tragic so many WNYers have never seen the mountains, but seeing how crowded it is getting, maybe it's better to keep it under our hats!

There was an announcement yesterday that all the facilities at the Cape Vincent Research Station are opened back up.  Aquarium (learn what kind of fish you might catch, if you don't already know them), access for fishing from the docks, rest rooms (sometimes important with kids).  Not a huge distance down river from Chippewa area.

Considering the size and type of boat Shrekstoff employs, I would guess he is targeting them for more of his probing investigations into the complexities of the LO Salmonid and Bait continuum!!!

Take me out fishing and set the goal as a box full of adult kings.  You are sure to get nothing bigger than shakers, and probably lose half the tackle in the process! 

People who purchase jet skis do not know the meaning of the word courtesy!

9 hours ago, justtracytrolling said:

The reason walleye get protection is walleye anglers don't have any interest in making things easy at the cost of our precious, beloved walleye.  We don't even wanna fish then.  I know plenty of lifters and the ones that walleye fish enough to learn how to catch a walleye wouldn't consider lifting a walleye....weird how social paradigm dictates it's ok to slaughter spawning trout, spawning perch, but we leave walleye alone and have to fish artificials for bass and put them back...or is it that we think trout are only put and take anyway, but whats the excuse for perch?  

Maybe you and your friends leave the walleye alone, that is NOT the case in a lot of places, and that is why there are complete fishing bans during their run in a lot of places.  There are grody poachers out there for everything.

I'll be happy to be allowed to fish in the Finger Lakes  streams for lake run fish only after they have all returned to the lakes if all you trollers will agree to only fish with hookless baits!  And in Owasco and Skaneatles, , and Cayuga lately, rainbows are stocked not totally reliant on Natural reproduction.

The same person who throws that bucket of walleyes could throw a bucket of alewives and upend your whole applecart. That is NOT an acceptable thing to do for either fish!  Look at Conesus Lake, where, BTW, they seem to be coexisting, although, except right after the opener, noone can seem to catch those 10+ lb 'eye. 

The farmers around Retsof were likely very surprised that "all that bedrock" didn't stop the formation of sinkholes at the surface over the area of the collapse!

I should probably qualify the above by saying I don't know of any people who lick themselves clean after swimming, but in this day and age, I suppose anything is possible, so those folks, if there are any out there, are in greater  danger, too!

Then based on everything I could find, you're good to go.  But the links provide you with all kinds of information  that could come in handy later, and the map has photos of the blooms linked to it so you can see what all the words really add up to. 

The greatest danger with these blooms is to dogs who swim in them, get the cells and associated toxins concentrated in their fur, and then ingest the toxins while licking themselves clean. Many dogs have died from this, up around Champlain, and I think a couple in Fulton by Neatawanta, which has one of the longest running problems in the state (damn shame, it was a great crappie lake)  If you are in an area with a bloom, you avoid contact, but keep your dog leashed so he or she CANNOT get to the water to swim or drink.

The worst kind of fisheries management is some KIA with a bucket full of fry who feels entitled to modify the management plan for a lake by himself based on his perceptions of what everyone else wants.  Some miscreant absolutely ruined the rainbow fishery in the Fulton Chain with a bucket of small northerns.  I didn't even get to go to a public meeting like the ones Pete Osterman has been holding in Region 8 to weigh in on my desires for the lake. And there are former brook trout ponds all around Old Forge full of stunted largemouth stocked by Junior Jimmy Houstons.  Almost makes me want to see it made a capital offense!

Naw, there's never any problem with mining a water soluble compound from, oh, 1000+ feet below the surface, and then hoping nothing seeps in and dissolves your salt support columns. 

Now, can you say Azko, and Retsof?  

https://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/77118.html

https://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/83310.html

https://nysdec.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ae91142c812a4ab997ba739ed9723e6e

Questions that  are pertinent include.  Was the green color general and transparent or was it opaque, like a paint spill on the surface?  Did the green color adhere to the fish?  Are there advisories issued for the lake that indicate the levels of microcystins or other toxins being produced by the bloom?  Is the Bloom(s) localized or lake wide?

A lot of non-harmful algae, which are present in all bodies of water, can impart a green color to water, but they tend to stay suspended and scattered throughout the water column, so the water still looks clear but with a green tint.  Cyanobacteria produce gas when they bloom, which float the cells to the surface where they accumulate in a "Tennis Court paint" or " pea soup" like scum (some related species can produce red blooms, looks like fire engine paint spilled on top, but I've only encountered one of these in a few years of chasing blue greens around Monroe County), which can then discolor to varying shades of green and brown as the bloom progresses.  If  the bloom is active and toxin producing, prudence says avoid fish, and Dr. Joseph Makarewicz at SUNY Brockport found bioaccumulation of BG Toxins in fish he analyzed from some bloom areas.  Because all this action is manifesting on top, and lake trout are at the bottom, you might think you are safe but the algae are collecting at the surface, but could be producing toxins deeper in the Water Column before they rise to the top.  So I would check the advisories page and if I was in area with an advisory, I would NOT eat the fish. However, DEC does say that recreational use of water in areas of a large waterbody with localized blooms is OK as long as you are not in the bloom area.

Looking at the Cayuga map, the only blooms reported in the last two weeks are at the far north end of the lake.  But there was been quite a bit of activity down there this summer, especially in early July.  But the most recent report near to the laker waters is nearly a month old, so that would say the blooms down there are over..

"Know it, Avoid it, Report it

Some HABs can produce toxins, some do not. However, exposure to any HABs can cause health effects in people and animals when water with blooms is touched, swallowed, or when airborne droplets are inhaled. Exposure to high levels of HABs and their toxins can cause diarrhea, nausea or vomiting; skin, eye or throat irritation; and allergic reactions or breathing difficulties. For more information please visit NYS Department of Health's HAB page.   " 

Seems like actual problems like Whirling Disease, BKD, VHS, and who knows what potential new problems, have faded from memory for a lot of folks.  Why there is a moratorium on moving fish eggs from  State to State anymore, or at least why DEC isn't doing it.

Alewife ARE herring.  https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/85766.html

Looking at Wikipedia, there is no mention of Pacific Herring being anadromous, so I question whether they would be viable in a freshwater environment.  The lack of salt in freshwater acts as a barrier to invasion of freshwaters by species that could just swim up from the ocean if their physiology allowed them to adjust to the different salinity.

Another baiting option that cuts way down on swallowed hooks is to use an ice jig for the hook, tip it with a piece of worm or a waxworm if anyone has them.  The fish feel the jig and try to spit it rather than swallowing.

I would go to a bait and tackle store in the area, and ask there, they have an interest in putting you on fish so you come back and buy some more bait from them.   My dad took my brothers and I to Chippewa when we were kids (50+ years ago) ,and the bait store guys sent us about 100 yards down shore from their location.  We caught beaucoup big sunfish and bluegills, but it was just before bass season, fish were on the beds right off shore.  But I've also heard about a million stories about huge fish, and lots of panfish, being caught right off the end of the dock in the St Lawrence, so you my find that there is plenty of action to keep them happy right where you are renting.

For a day trip that might be interesting, especially if they have finished the aquarium work, take a run downriver to Cape Vincent. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27069.html  There is shore fishing there, too, and restrooms close by.

Wow, that fish is pretty colored up for early August!

As to raising bait for a Great Lake, really a small ocean, where are you going to do it?  Rotenone Oneida Lake, or maybe Kueka and use that. That will sit really well with those property owners!   Steve LePan calculated a few years ago that if all the hatchery capacity of NYS were devoted to Alewife culture, they could produce enough alewife to feed the ravenous predators we already stocked into LO for 8 days.  No, you want big salmon, cut the numbers that go in and the ones that remain have more growth possibility.  On the other hand, if the west end charter guys had their ways, more would go in and you could get a box full of 4 year old ten pounders, if the population didn't totally crash, and I see that  as a big risk despite what Gill says, with the continuing decline exhibited in the data from a well designed, well vetted, well run random sampling program run for over 40 years.

WOW, run this guy for Congress, a Public Servant who actually cares what the public thinks and works to serve them!!!

Glad to hear that.  Then as Spoon said, maybe try deeper.