Lucky13

Scared nearly to death.  Great story, why I don't use my canoe on the big pond despite knowing one guy who is out there every month of the year with his.

I used a 13 foot Whaler for work, had to run to Braddock's from the river for a project, we were fine going out at 05:30 AM for the three days we were out there, but when I would pick up and head for the river around noon when it started getting rougher, my college intern would be looking a little green around the gills.  The third day was picking up considerably faster,  after I told him we were low on gas as we headed in, I noticed the green had spread to all of his face, not just the gills! .  I think he transferred to a business major when he returned to school in the fall.

2 hours ago, tuffishooker said:

Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much water the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least. Once It came in so quick within (5 - 10) minutes I couldn't see more than 5 - 6 feet in front of boat,with  high waves, thunder - lightening to boot. Even with bilge pump running I took on so much ater the back of boat was swamped. Couldn't plane due to visibility, very concerning to say the least.

Bad situation ! What lake did this storm happen on ?

ECHO Lake!

Well, looking at Shrechstoff's graphs, the 2018 alewife class was both very small in numbers and small in size, both length and total biomass.  Also, as someone who was around when there were massive alewife dieoffs, I can remember 2 very small ones in the last 25 years, nothing even close to what we regularly experienced along shore in the 60's.  As to size of the overall population, they are only tracking 6 year classes, basically (I think)  because by the 7th year they are insignificant in the totals. While 2013 and 14 are expected to be nearly gone now, as they were the " hole" to begin with, how much of the 2015 hatch remains?  The majority of the large alewife preferred by Kings remaining out there are one year class , the 2016 hatch.  My mother always told me never to put all the eggs in one basket!

When you have one of the major universities in town, and a college as well, there tend to be lots of good restaurants, bars, etc.  Check out college town, and while it has been a long time since I've been there, the Rogdovian Embassy in Trumansburg was a great bar.  And don't neglect to check out the waterfalls, at least from the overlook at Toughhanock, but also the one you fish by on Fall Creek, as they say " Ithaca is gorges!"

Thank you very much.  I guess I never had problems because the spring motor on the Victrola broke not long after, and I have yet to find a parts place for Victrola's.

Does anyone use metal crimps and crimping pliers for this purpose, or are those mainly used on steel lines?  I got a bunch of bead chains and crimps at Sutton's years back, and I used them for this on a Victrola, but of course I didn't have to worry about guides on that.

If you are planning on staying in a motel or hotel, Ithaca might be your best choice, and there is a lot of music and craft brew around there.  From thee you have the option of driving over the hill to Seneca (Catherine's Creek), fishing the tribs of Cayuga, or shore fishing from one of the spots.  I used to live in Binghamton, and I spent a lot of time fishing at Toughanock as it was on the way back to Rochester, I could easily access the pier to throw spoons or I could fish the short stretch of Toughanock Creek between the lower falls and the Lake. A second choice for places to stay would include Watkins Glen at the south end of Seneca. 

My experience is that every stream is a little different , so just because you have fished in the LE tribs, don't assume that the LO tribs are the same.  You can catch LL Salmon, Brown and Rainbows in the Finger Lakes tribs (depending on the lake, a lot of lakes don't get any browns or LL salmon.) but planning around targeting one particlular species is difficult, so it is kind of a grab bag.  And if you go on Tuesday after a dry spell, the stream could appear barren, while 1/2" of rain over night could have fish screaming upstream all day Wednesday.

Looking at the 2018  one year old data, I would be surprised to even see a status quo maintenance plan.  I think we'll all see a little pain out of this one,   Not that what any of us "vote for" will matter a whole lot in the equation, it will be based on what the technical committee sees as acceptable risks.  2015 and prior are virtually gone, the great 2016 hatch has been heavily preyed down,  the small 2017 hatch is virtually gone, and 2018 is an even smaller number of fish, with a low total biomass.  The "hole" is not disappearing yet. 

I think the big limiting factors for natural reproduction on this side of the lake is lack of substrate, and temperatures that impact recruitment of the fish that are spawned.   

When is prime for the run? I was thinking about going in either late October or Early November.   - Both can be good, but the run timing is heavily impacted by rain and runoff, and there is no way to tell you when that will happen.

-How crowded does it get?   After rains and on weekends it can get very crowded, although generally less so than in the spring.

-I've researched the major tributaries that fish will run up, but will they run in some of the smaller streams as well? Like I said, I like doing some exploring.   -  The major issue with this is access.  Virtually everything in the FL is posted if it is not public, Regardless of what you know from PA, or are told about New York, you can't just enter a stream at a bridge and stay within  the high water marks, if the land adjacent is posted so is the stream.  ECO's generally don't even hesitate to write on trespassing charges.   Go on the Fishing Page of the DEC Website and look at Public Fishing Rights maps, if it is not on there in the FL, it is likely off limits, the exception being anything flowing through a park or state forest.

-I also read that Lake Trout may find their way into the tribs, any truth to this? Also, how is the shore fishing for Lakers around the same time.  I've never seen lakers in the tribs but I've seen pix.  They are spawning so they may get a little tight lipped.

-How are the Brown Trout runs? I would love to hook into some big browns.   IF your goal is a BIG brown, listen to Ontherise and hit Western LO tribs, like the Oak or 18 Mile at Newfane.  In the FL, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

-Lastly, how is the shoreline access on Cayuga?  -Very limited, Toughanock State Park, the power plant on the east side and the public park near Ludlowville, at least at the deeper south end.   The little pier at Toughanock is very popular for spoon chucking as it drops off very quickly..

The EcoPark in Monroe County will NOT accept flares, but recommends calling the Sheriff or your local police agency.  The Police are using flares a lot and maybe can put them to good use. 

1,4, and 5 all involve getting close to shore.   I maintain that unless you are almost on top of shore to begin with, you should be able to see a storm coming long before it gets on top of you so that you would be "stuck."   Even most of the Fingers with their N/S orientation are large enough to not get surprised.  Hemlock and Canadice, not so much.  I have run up to full speed with all my lines out, once  (admittedly one rigger and a couple of junk lines is a much smaller spread than a LO boat would have out) and then had to replace all the line, to get closer to shore when an overcast with no noise day suddenly started making noise and throwing off sparks.  I don't get the anchoring, and that could be problematic if you're doing 150 down over 300'.    I don';t think I would anchor and then stand up and shake my fist angrily at the sky!

As to reaching shore and tying off and going further inland to get out of the lightning, we were told by the police on 4th Lake  that in an emergency, private property rights are trumped by the responsibility to offer assistance and sanctuary to a boat in need.  This does not include mother needing to use indoor plumbing, but riding out a t-storm should certainly qualify. 

It would probably at least constitute Assault and Battery.  You can't use an old snatch hook on 100 lb test to snag water skiers, or their tow ropes, either!   I have seen that rig used to pull in J plugs from boats that trolled down the pier too close, however.

So those of us who still catch lots of fish, don’t bother with redundant photos or even taking the fish out of the water most of the time, and catch more fish now then we did in the early 70’s, the peak of the acid rain problems and the period before programs like the Land Locked Salmon stocking began, don’t know what we are talking about?  Actually the hiking trails up there are more crowded than ever, and I don’t bother with camping if there is no fishing involved, but it is a lot harder to find a tent site for the weekend now than it was in the 70’s.  Maybe there are not so many fish under your bridge because you kept so many, and so few bass because they got over-manhandled for photos.  So sorry that whatever part of the mountains you fish has declined so much when the rest of us are finding an excellent fishery in one of the most beautiful areas of the NE.   And I am amazed at your ability to characterize the fishing in the largest contiguous Park in the USA outside Alaska in a couple of sentences.  It took Spyder Rybak a complete book, and it is, to my great relief, very sketchy and leaves out lots of (my favorite) spots!  Watch yer head when you crawl back under yer bridge.

Many of the lakes and ponds that were classed as dead due to atmospheric deposition have come back since the Clean Air Act kicked in.  Brook Trout Lake was the poster child for acid rain, and it is supporting a self-sustaining population of Brook Trout, Indian Lake and Falls Pond in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness have fish again, and many of the ponds in the southern Five Ponds Wilderness that had been considered dead have been reported to be growing trout.  I've fished up there for better than 50 years, and the last 10 have been fine for fish anywhere I've gone.  Of course, I'm more interested in trout and landlocked salmon, and there isn't much fishing in the St Lawrence area except over in the Indian River Lakes for those fish.

And it likely stayed in the OCEAN for six or seven years, and some of the races, especially Kenai stock, have superior genetics for growth.  You may as well lose the Pacific Herring soapbox, because there is a snowball's chance in hell that Ontario and NYS and the Feds are going to allow stocking of another non-native bait species, even if there was somewhere they could raise them.  And there isn't.

I don't get out there, but friends who did say it is a mere shadow of what it was.  Generally, if you go, go a lot deeper, and fish something that is attractive to bass but not to gobies..

And don't be waiting for the storm to get to you before pulling lines and getting out of there, lightning can strike up to 10 miles away from the storm center.  First low rumble in the distance I am out of there ASAP!  I was trolling up in the Adirondacks once and noticed the rods start to vibrate, then glow.  Saint Elmo's Fire.  Thunder was not far behind, but by then I had reeled everything in and was half way back.  Lightning is like eye accidents, you don't often get second chances!

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 6:43 AM, Gator said:

This topic has got me on a strange train of thought. I have a 17 yr old daughter, and she has some anxiety issues. I was concerned at first, until I realized that everyone her age has anxiety issues, and that she's probably one of the most put-together young women in her peer group. So, why all these kids carrying the world on their shoulders? I think that it's because we've become a society that is dominated by rules, and every time you screw up it is immediately public via social media. They rarely have a chance to relax and, as Justin says, just have fun. Even when they're having fun, they're consumed by how what they're doing fits in with the world. We all worry to some degree about appearances. They worry to the umpteenth degree. 

 

Here, we are a group of fishermen (and women) having a friendly over rules of the road. Years ago, you would have taken a boating course, immediately forgotten it, and life would go on. Instead, we now have a thread that goes on for pages. This isn't a bad thing, but it is the sort of thing that kids do regarding their whole life: they micro-dissect ever part of it, put it out in public for debate, then spend the rest of their time worrying about what they did or didn't do. 

 

Okay, sorry to hijack this thread. It got me thinking, and that's dangerous sometimes. Tight lines.

Well said. 

But isn't this another example of us being dominated by rules?  Next you'll have to have your boater's insurance card along with your safety certificate!

I'm concerned because I took Hunter Safety a couple of years ago (I thought it would be a good idea before going back into the woods with a firearm after about 40 years of not hunting), and it took me "forever" to find a course that hadn't hit capacity almost as soon as it was announced.  I also am not crazy about additional taxes and fees, we are already being taxed to death in the great Emperor's Empire State.  Make it free for the course, and free for the certificate, hold the classes in High School gyms, I'm there with a PFD on!!!! 

No one owns up to putting them in Conesus, It was said years ago that they came in through bait buckets.  Likely the same for all the Fingers that are not attached to the Seneca Canal, where they could have come in from the Oswego River from LO.  I'm actually surprised that Skaneatles escaped this biological pollution.

It is possible to have fair to good trout fishing in many of the tributaries after April 15, but if the opener gets pushed back to then, it will no longer be possible and those later fish that get almost no pressure now would suddenly be being removed when they should be spawning.  After the first week in April, the tribs I fish see almost no one except on Saturday AM.  At least the Region 8 wide one fish limit does seem to be thinning the "fill the freezer" crowd a little bit, but the incorrigible lifters don't follow the limits either when they can get away with it.  I'd like to see a LOT more ECO presence on opening day and for a while thereafter.  Of course, a change in attitude on the part of " sportsmen" so that lifters were generally shunned and ostracized might help, but does not seem likely in the new me-first "Twitter America."

That is certainly true when you consider the new "rules" for where the ECO's can work and can't work.  But I have seen a complete willingness on the part of the Lake Ontario unit to work with all stakeholders, to vet the metrics used for tracking the fishery, and to modify it when valid criticisms are levelled.  A  quality control program that examined every part that came off the line would put a manufacturer out of business, but the LO folks have worked diligently to get a doable and manageable monitoring program, it has been examined by an outside group (NY Sea Grant), is accepted by the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, and it has been run for years now accumulating one of the more amazing datasets in the history of fisheries science.  Everyone loves it and rah rahs when it produces the numbers they want to see and hear.  When it produces less rosy pictures, everyone goes back to looking at their graph and second guessing the science, and lambasting the biologists.

As for the salt, the real environmental damage happens after it is applied to the roads.  Why are southern cars so desirable on the used market?  No rust.  The bridges around Monroe County are all starting to rot away.  The salt.  Even concrete is attacked by the stuff.  But you can't ask upstate urban drivers to slow down and brake sooner, and cut application to just hills, everyone has to get to Target faster!  The aquifers under Monroe County have a salinity similar to brine, same thing under Toronto, let's hope we never have to go underground for drinking water. 

5 hours ago, justtracytrolling said:

You guys have me missing the mountains!  Spent a lot of summers driving back and forth every chance I had with my canoe and tent.  Had my son's birthday up there every year for a decade camping, hiking, and fishing.  No more canoes for me, but I better get my butt back up to chase those Tupper eyes at least!  Thanks for posting...puts things in perspective about what's important for me anyway 😉.  If anyone is a paddler do yourself a favor and do the Saranac river from Saranac lake to Franklin falls pond.... always caught smallies and pike in the river and jigged walleye in Franklin falls pond right below the permanent rapids.  Then camp at moose pond...just over the ridge from lake placid.  KNOW the rules though as the rangers take things seriously.  There was never anyone fishing just the odd canoe or kayak.

Great trout fishing in the permanent rapids, too!  My wife and I honeymooned in Wilmington, and went back for a week for a few years after, and Francis Betters, who I had showed around the Salmon River, sent us over to the Saranac as an alternative to the West Branch.  Unfortunately, Franklin Falls Pond is one of the more mercury contaminated waters up there, a lot of the locals won't even fish it anymore.  The stretch between Franklin Falls Pond and Union Falls Pond, especially right below the Powerhouse used to be " the larder" for a lot of folks that lived around there.

And New York does decide what it's limits are, but Lake Ontario is not just in New York, or even in the USA, it is an international waterbody.  How are the Canadians about border issues in the Niagara and the St Lawrence when they get a bug about something New York has pulled?  New York has wisely followed a collaborative path on its fisheries and objectives.  Lake Michigan has some serious problems if the loose cannons included state agencies, or maybe you've forgotten how close you came to an all out crash once before.

They make solar chargers for the cell phone, and if you leave it in your pocket most of the time, it can be a very handy tool if the boat breaks down or someone gets injured. 

Don't forget the Lime for the Privy! 

Illinois and Wisconsin are US states and Lake Michigan is totally in the USA.  Lake Ontario is an international waterway, so decisions on management involve the Canadian opinion as much as the New York opinion.  And the Federal government has input and jurisdiction as well.  Since Lake trout are one of the indicators for the Lake Ontario LaMP, it is unlikely that regulations will change to allow more harvest, at least until natural reproduction ramps up a lot further than it has been doing.  And, although they were forced by hatchery problems, there have been cuts to LO lake trout stocking.