Lucky13

The last time I pulled copper was the day the spring broke on my Victrola motor!   But the real old timers used to hand over hand and wrap on a spindle of some sort while playing a fish.  But as perch said, watch out for those twists and kinks, they are deadly to copper.

Then GL Lure maker covered 90 %.  I'm with him on a quick pull and keep in contact, but I would say not a tight line, you want the lure to "flutter" back, but not just on a dropped and loose line because, as he said, most strikes come after the pull, on the "slack" portion of the action.  You will quickly get a feel for this.

So this minor disagreement on the technique calls for a response from Matt Ching.  Are you talking about pulling copper, or wire sometimes, as it was practiced at least since the invention of the outboard motor, in the Adirondacks and Finger Lakes, as described by GL Lure maker, and then added to by others including myself, or are you talking about what are affectionately referred to by LO trollers as "junk lines,"  different lengths of metal line sent back on thinner dacron or other backing and then just trolled along with all the other lines, as Tyee answered to. 

It is a good idea to get a pair of leather gloves and wear them.  You loose a little sensitivity, but it cuts way down on the wear to your hands that will occur from a few hours of pulling.

I love me some good science, these guys are the best, I even know a few of them, but ~600 bux would by me three days on a Charter boat (as part of a party), or a couple of new fly rods, so I'm going to have to pass.  One of the advantages of being retired and NOT emeritus.

Contact Ron Ditch about what happens when you do not get a permit.  And we all know that states cannot go rogue from the Feds, (except for harassing Trump and granting sanctuary to illegal immigrants. and …) 

After the east end shooting incident, they continued to colonize Galoo and the other islands, and the population only stabilized when DEC obtained the USF+WS permit and started oiling eggs. 

That gleam in his eye says he's likely entertained the thought.  Just have to come up with the right language to get them through the federal procurement process.  "Deep water long reach piscevorous attractor placement devices" or something like that. 

How many junk lines could you hang off the back of the Kaho!

What Gator said, and head up Buttonwood Creek in the evening with surface lures for largemouths, likely the same up Salmon Creek when you start to get into the wetlands more.  Also, if the lake is not rough, the flats just outside the bay produce smallmouths, and carp if you can get into that, early season.  Also, take a look at any stormwater ponds on campus, these often get colonized by largemouths and I have seen some surprisingly big ones in relatively small ponds.  You are also not that far from Iroquois National Wildlife Refuge and the Oak Orchard FWMA, both have good spots to kayak fish.

The limit on I Bay is 25 mph, and 5 mph within 200 feet of shore normally.  You could open it up, but you would be liable for any shoreline damages you caused, and the Sherriff is likely to be " more observant", as will be the property owners.  And you would give a whole bunch of other boater/fishers a bad name.

The Town may have closed the I Bay launch to reduce traffic on the bay, lots of low lying-close to the water houses in German Village and Schneckel Cove, and I am sure all the folks who dock at Mario's are travelling wake free for the hour+ it takes for them to get to the outlet.

CYA...  errr, Liability!

1 hour ago, jimski2 said:

Nests of cormorants on Islands  in the upper Niagara river had their eggs oiled, birds in the trees were shot with 22 short cartridges. Their excrement was killing the trees. DEC was in charge for this.

DEC may have accomplished this, but they had a permit from USF+WS.  The birds are federally protected.  And I recall hearing that USF+WS tightened up their policies last year.

Maybe you all forget the "unauthorized harvest" undertaken by Ron Ditch et al in the Eastern Basin.  I spoke with an ECO who was involved with some shooting of shags off Galoo with a USF+WS permit, and he echoed what the "private" shooters said,  the birds are suckers for the first volley, after that they learn very fast and become very difficult to get nearby for a second round.   My ECO friend said they basically gave up quickly for lack of targets.  Egg oiling seems to be the way to go, even if it is not as dramatic.  When they started up around Snyder's Island on IBay, we of they stay out at Sandy, try to find out where they are going at night, you may be able to get them on the list if they can get in and get at eggs.  Also, DEC has their hands just as tied as everyone else's, this is totally USF+WS.  But try looking into permitted harvest in LA, they do a number on Aquaculture facilities there and the feds allow some pretty massive numbers to be killed.  Maybe that Senator we are paying to run around the country running for President can do something about them!

Pen raising of steelhead  was not an issue at Sandy (I am told by someone connected with the program out there) because Sandy steelhead were direct stocked because the pen they intended to use was recalled by Orleans County, where it then sat on the bank ot the creek out there not being used. 

That HUGE population of shad is also likely why no one catches them through the ice, I see those little buggers every time I drill a hole out there in the winter. 

With the cold spring, a lot of the eyes may have still been up in the creek for the opener.  

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/85787.html

There are lots of Lakes on the map that have smelt and have healthy lake trout populations.  Lamprey and over harvest are usually given credit for the decline of Lake Trout  populations in LO, and water quality in the 50's and 60's in the big pond wasn't helping anything.

From an Ohio publication on Blue Pike: (my bold)  http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Blue_Pike?rec=2783

The extinct blue pike (Stizostedion vitreum glaucum) were often confused with walleyes, of which it was a subspecies. Differences include the larger eye of the blue pike and their bluish-gray back, fading into bluish-silver on their sides. Another name for the blue pike is the blue walleye.

Blue pike had similar spawning activity of the walleye. They did not build nests, but were free spawners during April and May. Adults reached an average body length of nine to sixteen inches and weighed five ounces to one and a half pounds. They were carnivorous, eating mainly fish but also aquatic insects.

Blue pike habitat consisted of the clearer areas of Lake Erie, mainly in the eastern two-thirds of the lake. Bass Islands in the fall and winter Blue Pike were extremely important to the Lake Erie commercial fishing industry. The commercial catch in 1885 was 3,152,400 pounds. The annual catch for all U.S. and Canadian ports between 1950 and 1957 ranged from 2,000,000 to 26,000,000 pounds. In 1959, catch numbers dropped to only 79,000 pounds. In 1964, fish dealers sold less than 200 pounds of blue pike. Years of commercial fishing had taken their toll. Similar statistics occurred in the United States wherever there were blue pike.

No blue pike were found around Cleveland between 1971 and 1975. They were thought to be extirpated from the Ohio. In 1977, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service listed them as endangered in the United States. The blue pike has been considered extinct since approximately 1983. The main causes are attributed to uncontrolled commercial fishing and hybridization with walleye.

Smelt are definitely nonindigenous, but I've seen nothing that indicates that they have had any effect on other populations to the extent that alewife have. 

18 hours ago, jimski2 said:

Fishing is about catching fish to eat. Contests, catch and release and other frivolous actions to fish are not the use for fish. But we find a a necessary deal to worship them like a “god” .


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

So you would prefer old style Canadian Regulations, you keep everything you catch until you have a limit,  and then you get the h*** off the lake?

If you take a look at the Baitfish report for Lake Ontario, you will note that the smelt biomass is just a shadow of what it once was.  Because they are so few and far between, except maybe at Lewiston, you kind of have to go and stand around and watch and wait on the chance that a small school actually comes into the tributary you are on.  The days of filling 5 gallon pails are long gone.  Most of us gave up our nets  long ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/world/canada/canada-flooding.html

Same conditions downstream as 2017, too. 

Only 1/27th of the Niagara in flow, I/7th the sediment load.  She didn't get nicknamed "the Big Muddy" for nothing! 

My bad math, since all the discussion was fall 2016, I got that number fixed in my head, but since they went in spring 17, it will be the 2 year olds this year.

Sorry Troy,  that was what I heard from an acquaintance of Leo's, and I recall Leo's picture  being upfront for a while in LO Outdoors before he got more involved in the Adirondack publication.  Appears that both are gone now.

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 9:03 AM, cheeseyrider said:

Also female Kings we caught were loaded with eggs, didn't know process started this early. Kings we caught seemed to be 3 yr olds, all of our fish had empty stomachs also. 

How big were the eggs?  The ovaries of female organisms (including fish) contain eggs at birth, but they are undeveloped.  As the fish approaches maturity, the eggs develop, at the same time the digestive tract atrophies to allow room for the ovaries to grow.  We routinely catch spring brook trout in the 'daks that are only 10-12inches long and the females contain ovaries that look like miniatures of the developed ovaries.

Maybe someone has gotten a "ball park" estimation of the alewife numbers for this year, it is way too early for anything definitive.  Also, isn't this the first year that the first (20%) cut in King stocking hits three years old?  

Isn't the water a lot colder than normal for this time of year?  Don't the alewive come in from the deep lake when the nearshore warms up?  It's just early, be thankful they are not finding a lot of bait or they might not be eating lures!