Lucky13

Thinking back, Jerry Barnhart didn't know a whole lot about the Lake Ontario fishery when he became Director of Fisheries, but you don't grow up without some background in fishing and hunting when you grow up in a family where on of the famous pools on the Beaverkill River is named after your father. 

And while I know that Lake Ontario is the Piscatorial Center of the Universe, New York is a big state, there are lots of other fisheries for DEC to deal with.

 "especially with certain jobs going to political appointees with zero background in fishing and hunting."

OK, Gil,. I'll give you Basil Segos, but below there in the COC, could you be more specific?  Last I knew Pat Retzinger was in charge of fishing and hunting, and she came up through the ranks (she may have retired).  And I'm pretty sure I was seeing Steve Lapan, still in a technical position, at some of the early meetings back in the 90's, so he didn't walk out of a NYC caucus, and I recall some reports and papers on Pike and Muskellunge in the ST Lawrence that he is credited on.  Ditto Steve Hurst, who would be out fishing with us sometimes except he is always so busy that he has to get right back to Albany, but he does show his face at more meetings than anyone I remember.  So who are these political appointments in the hunting and fishing areas?  Please also remember that employment below the Management and Professional level is governed by Civil Service Law, so it is not as easy to slide people into positions as you might think, and they eventually have to score in the top three on a test on their area of proficiency, and even M+P's have to go through what is called an unassembled test, which is a review of qualifications, so lack of proper degrees and experience comes out in that wash.

LL Bean didn't sell fly fishing equipment back then.  And you were much more likely to encounter a big martin automatic on an ugly stick or a fenwick than Orvis tackle, and the pro lifters with money all lusted after their Fin Nors.  Lifting has been around since the Rochester and Buffalo pirates started back when the runs first came into Naples.  But between the state telling people the fish would not hit, because the biology says they cannot "feed" or digest food, and the industry supporting a fishery based on hauling a trunkfull of fish back to wherever they muphered from so they can smoke and can them and eat a couple of pounds a week every week of the year, we got this sHyteshow, and now we're dealing with those kids that got educated back then to hate Encon and think it is all right to harvest anything any way they want, so a lot of it continues.   Oh, and then there are the "guides" who brought flossing back from Alaska, and taught it to their clients. I didn't go out on the LO tribs where snagging was legal until after the November 15 close of snagging, but I ran into plenty of the guys with pirate hats and flyrods using the 17 lb mono , the 1/0 hooks and the Slugload of double ought buck, with a pea size piece of sponge, on plenty of non-snagging tribs back then, too. 

I stopped going to the Oak, because I got a big ache missing Mark when I was there.  Way too early to lose a guy like that, we could definitely use his sense of humor in these troubled times.

It has no effect on discharge from  the Niagara because it comes out of the Niagara into the tunnel and then returns to the Niagara after it is used for generation.  It's not like it gets removed from the system, sent down the Alleghany or some other non GL river, it just gets used for power generation and then returned to the river. 

2 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

 As far as more water in the upper lakes flooding Ontario , that has a minimal affect compared to the Dam on the STL River. Remove that and the water levels return to what Mother Nature wants. 

The lake was subject to more frequent high water events and more frequent low water events, many at nearly the magnitude of the current "high input from the immediate watershed coupled with much higher inflow from the upper great lakes" situation, prior to construction of the St Lawrence  Seaway.  The Sheet pile and concrete wall barriers along Edgemere Drive were built prior to the Seaway construction.  Plan 2014 was formulated to allow more natural high and low water events than under the previous scenarios.  If it had been rolled out during the drought years of the 2000's in the UGL, everyone would have been P+Ming about not being able to get their boats out in the late summer.  An unfortunate juxtaposition of events that many of us warned of at the public meetings prior to the 2014 implementation, (or at least pointed out the needs for funding for compensation, because many of the landowners could reasonably call the impacts of 2014 a "taking,"  and the plan incorporated the somewhat bogus logic that the lower water enjoyed since the Seaway was built had an economic benefit that accrued to property owners earlier, and so negated the necessity of compensation for current damages.)

4 hours ago, jimski2 said:

Today Lake Michigan Homes will be falling into the water as nine foot waves wash out the sand dunes the homes are built on. The demolition and cleanup costs are being burdened on the homeowners.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Is this a manmade problem?  Where are the controls on the inflow and outflow of Lake Michigan?  As Dr. Wilcox has so eloquently stated in the past, when you build a house on a floodplain, you have to expect that sometimes the floodplain will be on the house.  And if you choose to build on sand dunes, why should the general public be expected to pay for your loss if that oh so stable sand washes away?.

The Lake is a big place, there is about 1/2 mile on each side of the Genesee.  It can get very crowded very quickly.  On smaller tributaries the overcrowding can lead to even more posting.

GIl, DEC is not raising "millions of Kings" at SRH, recent peak number targeted was 1.8 million, and they have been shooting for 500,000 Chambers Creek steelhead (the domestics come from the Randolph Hatchery).  When they are extremely successful, they have more so they go in also.  DEC used to use a ballpark figure of 1 steelhead equals 10 kings in cost to raise, so even if you eliminated 1.8 million kings, you would only gain 180,000 steelhead going into the pond.  I get accused of wanting the kings gone all the time, but if I really wanted the kings gone, I would be clamoring for them to raise king stocking to 3 million or so, crash the bait and start over.  The worst thing for the steelheads getting to the rivers is a shortage of kings out in the lake, as Dave has stated.  But the different indicators, which all appear to agree, says there is less food, so the pool of predators has to go down to reduce risk of a major collapse, and we all have to tighten out belts a little.  This is why I, and Charter operators like Frank Sanza before he retired, have suggested for years that the orientation taken by the industry should be toward a trophy fishery rather than a "fill the larder" fishery, but throughout these years we've heard from many operators who don't care how big the fish are, as long as they can deliver the "full box."   And as Dave has also stated, there is an awful lot of wailing going on about a fish that the Charter Operators on the Great Lakes Fishery Commission panel claim is only an incidental catch that they don't fish for. 

As to all this teeth gnashing about Trout Unlimited (I am not a member, although I was at one time), I checked the national Website, the NYS Council website, and the Seth Green (Rochester) Chapter website, and there is no mention of anything with these regulations anywhere on these sites.   The local chapter has not even updated their site in about a year, and when I was a member, meetings usually drew maybe 20 people.  Hardly a well organized conspiracy!

And thanks, Bob, for spot burning the Genesee run, but with all this snow (we got quite a bit here in Rochester, and there is even more south) it will likely blow out soon, and while you may be hearing great things from Sandy, I'm hearing it is more like an ember heap of a run, hardly on fire, from a couple of guys who live on the creek.  Also, considering the extremely limited access to Sandy considering its length, not a really good stream to be broadcasting all over the Interweb.

Another hatchery does sound like a great idea for raising more fish, but the problem is not with the predators, it is a lack of bait to feed the predators.  But if the bait bounces back, or Captain Vince is right and we see a massive alewife die off in late spring (I'm not counting winter kill),  it would be good to identify a viable water source and affordable land that would accommodate a facility, and then if there are budgetary constraints, maybe it is time to start discussing a Lake Ontario stamp as a revenue source.

They did drop the discharge in April and May and if my memory serves me (fairly) well, that was when the Ottawa River freshet hit and Montreal was under 10 feet of additional water, and large numbers of residents had to be evacuated.

Did they have a "#44, but..."?

Also sad to hear this news, I've been familiar with the store since starting to fish Naples in my teens, where else were you finding gold eagle claws, rubber eggs clusters,  and wood grubs back before trout eggs became legal bait?  I bought most of the materials for my Seth Green rig there, as well  The best spoons ever created, to my Finger Lakes and Adirondack Lake fishing mind.   RIP.

I know it is off your point, but just for the record: ( from https://ijc.org/en/loslrb/watershed/flows?_ga=2.196245420.1473435394.1575125285-902741098.1551272481)

Recorded Flows (Past Seven Days):

Date      Lake Ontario Outflow        Lake Erie Outflow              Net Total Supply*            Ottawa River Outflow

Nov 28  8,860 m³/s (312,900 cfs    7,890 m³/s (278,600 cfs)     TBD*                              2,140 m³/s (75,600 cfs)

Nov 27 8,880 m³/s (313,600 cfs)   7,930 m³/s (280,000 cfs)     8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs) 1,670 m³/s (59,000 cfs)

Nov 26 8,860 m³/s (312,900 cfs)   7,190 m³/s (253,900 cfs)    8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs) 1,810 m³/s (63,900 cfs)

Nov 25 8,880 m³/s (313,600 cfs)   7,200 m³/s (254,300 cfs)    8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs) 1,780 m³/s (62,900 cfs)

Nov 24 8,860 m³/s (312,900 cfs)   7,500 m³/s (264,900 cfs)    8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs) 1,800 m³/s (63,600 cfs)

Nov 23 8,870 m³/s (313,200 cfs)   7,240 m³/s (255,700 cfs)    8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs) 1,580 m³/s (55,800 cfs)

Nov 22 8,920 m³/s (315,000 cfs)   7,820 m³/s (276,200 cfs)    8,220 m³/s (290,300 cfs)  2,210 m³/s (78,000 cfs)

* Net Total Supply (NTS) is determined weekly as the average total inflow Lake Ontario receives from Lake Erie, over-lake precipitation and basin runoff/streamflow, minus lake-evaporation

The discharge has dropped recently, which will assist shipping (it is the velocity of the SLR that makes shipping difficult, not the level of the lake, velocity increases with increased discharge, the boats sometimes ground because they lose a lot of maneuverability at peak discharges).  It has been maintained at record discharge levels since the recession of flooding in Montreal, until being dropped recently.  But the water coming in from the upper Great Lakes is still at or exceeding record levels, so even with these way above average discharges, the lake level is still way above average.  Oh, and we got quite a bit of precipitation since Halloween over LO and in the watershed.

When you overfill a bathtub, there is a relief pipe that takes the excess, but if you continue to overfill at a rate that exceeds the capacity of that pipe, you get water all over the floor, the bathtub overflows.   There is only so much discharge capacity, so if the input from upstream stays where it is, it is unlikely things will be pretty next spring, unless a solid icepack forms on the upper river early, and allows higher discharge under the ice without the flooding and scour danger that occur in the open channel.  In 2017, there was a major drop in discharge ~90000 cfs) in late December, lasting about 20 days; in 2018, this was postponed to Mid January of 2019, and lasted 10 days, and this may have been due to lack of ice cover to allow the higher discharges that resumed in mid January of 2018, and then on January 20 of 2019.  But unless you install a bigger outlet pipe, if you overload a bathtub, it eventually overflows. 

Jimski pointed out this problem a couple of years ago on this website.  I contacted Dr. Wilcox at SUNY Brockport about time of travel through the Great Lakes to try to get a sense of when this would start impacting us, and he replied to me that he was unaware of any definitive data or studies on this.  It would seem we have a ball park figure of about 1 year or so before the "spigotless source" starts messing up the plans.   

For what it's worth, DEC received a few more than 20 comments in the first round of comments, according to a friend at the hatchery.  The response was similar to the Salmon River Unit Management Plan response.  Hardly the result of a well organized national conspiracy. 

I'm actually almost done. I discovered the jewelry store in Pulaski this year, nice selection, competitive pricing, if he doesn't have it in stock he'll order with a low deposit, when things invoiced at less than was quoted in a catalog, he passed on the savings, very nice people.  Gave me something to do on the deluge days I seem to have a talent for picking lately!

As long as you guys are going to take away someone else's fishing for a couple of years to benefit your lake trolling, why not really give the fish a break and not allow any fishing at all in the Fingers for a few years?

It seems to me that the spawning runs are pretty well protected by the April 1 opener, and there are also late runners that get almost no fishing pressure, and spawn successfully without getting tromped .  In Naples, the majority of the run is done by the 1st in most years.  Web Pearsall has said what Les said, the only reason for the one fish limit on Canandaigua is for consistency in regulations.  Considering the myriad special regulations on individual streams like the Salmon River, the West Branch of the Ausable, and the Delaware system, this rings hollow to me.  Closures on individual systems based on data are fine with me, but not just to make enforcement easier.  How about some public education on what a redd is,  looks like and why it is important to stay out of it?  Maybe a little article in the regulations guide, that little book you get with your license that most guys apparently never read?

I didn't like the one fish limit at Naples because it complicates derby strategy (do I get my sure bottle of wine, or do I keep looking for that Senior trophy? )  Also, more than one fish in a day is a rarity for me (I don't lift!) so I have never been a huge stress on the numbers. But I have no objection to keeping it low on Seneca and Kueka where there are definite management problems, and I could see closing Springwater for a couple of years if it was thought that the runs might recover.  But then all the manure in the watershed needs to be managed properly, too.

A Rochester Charter Captain very involved in the Pen Rearing told me that the pen used on Sandy for Steelhead had been loaned to them, and Bob Songin took it back last year, and left it idle on the banks of the Oak.

Although I have not spent a lot of time out in the " big boats" and spend most of my current angling hours on the tribs, I participated in the Rochester Project for a year about 15 years ago,. There were a number of times that I drove with my daughter to Shumway to do our scheduled feeding, then  got there to find someone else had already done the feeding.  Once my daughter actually got to feed the fish, but most of the times she was very disappointed, eventually losing interest completely.  I received no call about the project the next year.  I have always been impressed by folks who P+M about a job, and then fail to share information on participation except with some hand picked clique.

There are two reasons to employ  lighter leader section.  One is to maybe better deceive the fish with the smaller diameter leader section, especially if you are using beads or smaller baits.  The second is so that when you get hung up and have to break off, you are not leaving a long section of 12lb hanging downstream to hang up subsequent drifts, only the lighter short (4 ft  is the length limit, but 2 ft is fine) leader.  Holes like the parking lot can get clogged with mono and be almost impossible to fish until someone pulls the long mono strands out. 

9 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

A lot of captains do not target them regularly.  When fishing gets tough for kings, browns and lakers, they are a back up plan. 

 

 

A  of captains are saying that this regulation will cause a lot of dead steelhead in the lake.  Whether they are targeted or caught incidenlal to targeting another species is immaterial.  If you are catching steelhead with a technique and you hit your " limit" you should stop using that technique if the fish can't be released.  And as conditions stand, if you catch that fourth steelhead on a junkline, it is a " dead" according to these captains, so the lake should be already littered with dead steelhead.  They are certainly not showing up in great numbers in any tribs I have been on or seen this fall..  And the "alternative fish" urban legend is not borne out in the boat surveys, 20% of harvest is July and August in the west end, and it is my contention that those fish were targeted specifically, not caught because nothing else was biting or available.

There were two boats south of Densmore, and one toward the deep hole at the North end, when I crossed the bay bridge yesterday about 11 AM.  It is that time of year!

I've heard a lot of captains make statements to the effect that they do not target steelhead, but now they are complaining about a reduction in how many they can keep.   If the bait pool is smaller, the predator pool will also shrink and with the large numbers of charter/commercial and recreational anglers and a smaller predator pool, something has to give.  An emphasis on the trophy aspect of the fishery that has been espoused by many over the years might get customers who are interested in catching some fish with the chance at a wall hanger, rather than a box full of whatever ran into the junk lines and then could not be released ( Maybe the lake should be three and done regardless of what they are.) Or, stock 4 million kings , and for a limit, 10 fish or 20 lbs, whichever you get first! 

My all around favorite for landlocks in the Adirondacks is a Silver 44, oddly I have never found one for sale up there, I've always had to go to Naples and buy them.  Number 2 is a Mooselick wobbler.  Be aware that there are Chinese knockoffs of Suttons out there now.  It is likely bittersweet flattery that a manufacturer halfway around the world will copy your product, then undercut your prices, which they can do because they are not faced with the regulations on plating and plating wastes.

While I am almost always at the RIT meetings, it is fishing season for some of us, so I attended in Pulaski, where there was a pretty good turnout, although the room would have certainly held more.  I spoke with Dr. Weidel before the meeting, and he kind of summed things up by pointing out that we are using possibly the most finely tuned measurement system going for this kind of work, and then we all have to deal  (over and over) with the disappointment of what it tells us. If these guys were just scientists, they would not care, as it is just the job of science to observe and measure change , regardless of its direction, but they appear to be as frustrated by what is coming back in the data as everyone else.  If you missed the meeting, and have any interest at all in the fishery, lake or tributary (and a lot of guys at the motel had no interest in going because "the bait doesn't affect me, I only fish in the river") take the time to view the webinar, or watch the DEC website, as the power point slides might show up there, and give some careful thought to what all this data adds up to, both if the managers ignore it, as some are urging, and what they might have to do to restore balance to the system (to the minimal extent that the managers have control.)

That is assuming that the "drain" is capable of discharging at the same volume and rate that the " faucet" allows water in at.  If the outlet does not have capacity to handle what is coming in, even with the drain wide open, the bathtub overflows all over the floor.  This is also complicated by the people who live along the Saint Lawrence, and the people who live just downstream of the river, in Montreal and further downstream.

When you build your house in the flood plain, once in a while you are going to have the floodplain on your house.

8 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

According to your google search, the steelhead numbers are rebounding since the die off.  Let it continue to rebound and not make the change in regs.  The reduced number of steelhead caught in 2018 is a simple one if you spent any time on the lake.  HUGE numbers of salmon inside of 150' FOW all season is one reason.  The other is charters were boxing out on kings early and back to the dock.  No one was wandering offshore due to a slow king bite to find kings offshore and catching steelhead.  The summer of 2018, we had to fish deeper than 150' four trips the entire season on my boat.  Kings were loaded inside and stayed there even after upwellings.  If you do not spend time in steelhead waters, you will catch drastically less steelhead.  As for the junk lines, they are set out to target mature kings.  The legal bycatch (less desirable as you put it but are better table fare), that are caught and die go in the cooler and are counted towards our limit.  As for steelhead under 21", they go back dead or alive on my boat.  The law is the law.  I don't like to do it but we are forced to.  I don't know of anyone that has reached a full limit on a charter with 3 silvers each, 2 lakers each and 1 atlantic each.    So if we are going to be forced to stop fishing once our limit is reached on the lake, are you trib guys going to stop fishing once you catch your first steelhead?  I think not.  The data posted in your post above shows the larger fish in poor condition compared to the ten year average.  It explains why.  With the current state of the fishery, 20lb steelhead are unicorns and will continue to be unless the bait rebounds.  Having more steelhead in the lake so there are more in the tribs is only going to stress the population more and have a negative affect on size (more fish in the system = more alewife consumed and less availability for food).  Mature steelhead cant hit 20lbs eating bugs.  We caught a 37" steelhead during the Sandy Creek shootout in 2016 and it only weighed 13lb. 6oz.  A 13lb fish on a 18+ lb frame.  The fish was in poor condition.  When the Fish and Wildlife guys examined the fish at weigh in, their comment was "this fish spent too much time eating bugs". 

I don't need google to find the NYSDEC reports for Lake Ontario.  I thought I would highlight that section of the boat report, because so few on this site appear to really read anything.

Smaller numbers of harvested steel due to better king fishing was highlighted in the report, maybe you didn't read that? 

It is boat anglers who have indicated that steel do not release well in the heated surface waters in summer, tributary anglers are fishing vastly different thermal conditions, except maybe if they find that summer run Atlantic that you will apparently burn gas for the full 6 hours going after.

It was Yankee Troller that suggested that no captain will keep " culling" if they can get three and head for shore.  And none of you guys want the Lake Trout, or so I keep reading.

" Unless the Bait rebounds."  Well, at least one angler out there supports and believes the science even when it is not reporting the story you want to hear.  Maybe you can talk to Captain Perlioni about that.

And glad to hear that you scrupulously follow the regulations, but according to the bait data,  nearly 10% of the creeled fish were undersized.

From the 2018 NYSDEC report to the GLFC: ( my bold)

Rainbow Trout Catch and Harvest  Rainbow trout was the third most commonly caught and harvested salmonine in 2018 and represented 7.1% and 5.9% of the total trout and salmon catch and harvest, respectively (Tables 1, A14a; Figure 10).  Estimates of total catch and harvest peaked in 1989, declined to the lowest levels in the early 2000s, then improved from about 2008-2014.  More recently, estimated catch was similar to levels observed in the early 2000s.  Rainbow trout catch in 2018 was an estimated 18,047 (+32.3%) fish, 46.1% lower than the longterm average.  Anglers harvested 8,411 (+39.3%) rainbow trout (46.6% of those caught), 60.3% lower than the long-term average.  Reduced catch of rainbow trout in recent years (i.e., 2015-2016; Figure 10) was partly attributed to reduced population size after a prolonged rainbow trout mortality event related to thiamine deficiency in the Salmon River, NY from fall 2014 and into winter 2015 (Lantry and Eckert 2018).  Another indication of a reduced population was the size of the run at the Ganaraska River.  The rainbow trout run at the Ganaraska Fishway in Ontario has traditionally been used as an index of abundance, which was markedly lower 2014-2016. During spring of 2017 and 2018, however, the rainbow trout run at the Ganaraska River Fishway increased compared to the 2016 run size indicating a higher population level in 2017 and 2018 (OMNRF 2019). Rainbow trout catch in New York waters of Lake Ontario also increased in 2017; however, catch declined again in 2018 to levels lower than observed in 2015-2016. There have been no substantial reports of die-offs since 2014-2015, so reasons for the reduced catch in 2018 are unclear. Stocking of yearling rainbow trout in 2015 was 23% below target which may have impacted population abundance since those fish were age-4 in 2018 and fish from that age class represented 29% of the age structure on average from 20092018 (35% in 2018; Prindle and Bishop 2019).    It is also possible that rainbow trout were targeted less by anglers in 2018 due to record high catch rates for Chinook salmon. Anglers will often target rainbow trout by going further offshore during periods when Chinook salmon are not available. In 2018, Chinook fishing was exceptional in May through September (Figure 7c). 
 
For 33 consecutive years (1986-2018), most rainbow trout were caught and harvested in the west area (Lantry and Eckert 2011; Table 14a).  In 2018, 40.9%% of all rainbow trout caught and 35.4% of those harvested were from the west area, which is considerably lower than average (62.2% and 64.6% respectively).  The majority of rainbow trout catch (43.2%) and harvest (49.4%) occurred during August (Table A14a). There have been significant downward trends (p<0.001) in the April/May percent contribution to harvest with April/May 2018 ranking 32nd out of 34 years; along with corresponding significant increases in percent contribution to total harvest in the other months, especially June/July (p=0.0235).
 
Fishing Quality For seven consecutive years, from 2008 to 2014, anglers experienced the highest rainbow trout catch per boat trip in the history of the survey (average=0.77 fish per boat trip; Table A14b; Figure 10).   The 2015 and 2016 catch rates (0.38 and 0.43 fish per boat trip), however, declined to the lowest since 2006.  After catch rates temporarily improved in 2017, they dropped again in 2018 to 0.38 fish per boat trip which is 17.5% below the long-term average.  In 2018, charter boats caught 39.3% of all rainbow trout caught by trout and salmon boats.  Charter boats caught 0.61 rainbow trout per boat trip, 45.3% lower than the long-term average (Figure 10b).  Charter boat catch per angler hour (0.02 fish per hour) was also well below (-40.4%) the long-term average.  Anglers fishing onboard noncharter boats caught 0.30 rainbow trout per boat trip and 0.02 fish per angler hour (Table A14b). The 2018 lake-wide harvest rates among charter and non-charter boats followed similar trends as catch rates and were also well below long-term averages (Figure 10b, Table A14b).
 
Rainbow trout monthly and geographical catch rate and harvest rate trends for most years showed monthly rates highest during the summer in the western end of the lake and lowest in the east area (Lantry and Eckert 2011; Table A14b; Figures 10c, 10d, A5).  As compared to the long-term average, the 2018 rainbow trout monthly catch rates were below average in most months (April [-76.4%], May [-57.9%], June [-26.7%], July [-12.2%], September [-25.1%]) except in August when it was near average (+2.4%; Table A14b). Catch rate per boat trip in 2018 was especially low (-46.6%) in the west area. Seasonal catch rates in the west region are typically about 5 times higher than the average of the other three regions in a year but this was not the case in 2018. Lower rainbow trout catch rates in the west region may be partly due to exceptional Chinook fishing throughout the season which led to reduced targeting of rainbow trout during summer in the west.  Catch rates per boat trip in the west/central area were 36.9% above average, near average in the east/central (0.3%) and 59.6% above average in east (Figure 10d). 

Biological Data

Biological data analysis presented here includes fish processed during April 15 - September 30 (length: 1985-2018, weight: 1988-2018).  Scale samples were collected from rainbow trout processed for biological data each year 1996-2018; however, they are not yet aged.  Lengths of rainbow trout sampled from the open lake boat fishery were dependent on several factors including age and strain composition, stage of maturity, and fishing regulations (i.e. minimum size limit).  The 2018 open lake season was the 12th year affected by the increased minimum harvestable length of rainbow trout from 15 in to 21 in.  The average percent contribution of fish <21.0 in for the twelve years since the regulation (2007-2018) was 9.9%, and significantly lower than the twelve years prior to the increased minimum size limit (1996-2006) when 19.7% of rainbow trout processed were <21.0 inches (t=4.23; df=15, p-value = 0.0004).  During 2018, 9.6% of harvested rainbow trout were shorter than the legal 21 in minimum harvestable size.  
 
Weight data were collected each year from 19882018 and rainbow trout condition was calculated as predicted weights of standard-length fish (Table A15).  For each standard-length group (18- to 32in lengths, by 2-in size increments), predicted weights were variable but showed increasing trends from 1988 to about 2002-2003 (trends similar to those observed with Chinook and coho salmon), then generally declined to record and near record lows by 2006. Since then condition of rainbow trout has varied at a lower level resulting in significant downward trends among all 30 years.   In 2018, predicted weight (condition) was below average for all inch groups evaluated relative to long-term averages.   Relative to more recent years, condition of smaller fish (18-in, 20-in, and 22- in groups) ranged from +4.9% to 1.3% above previous ten-year averages. Condition of the larger fish (i.e., 24-, 26-, 28-, 30-, 32 in groups) were near or below previous ten-year averages (range: -0.3% to -5.4%). The 28 to 32-inch predicted weights in 2018 were the 3rd lowest in the time series for all groups. Below average temperatures and reduced preyfish population could have contributed to reduced growth and condition of rainbow trout. "

So if it is not possible to release rainbows in July and August when most are being caught on the west end, what are you guys doing with the undersized fish?  Aside from the questionable practice of using rigs that you know are going to kill fish that are not "desirable,"  either undersized or over limit fish, are you not putting a heavy hit on future populations of salmon and trout if the junk lines result in so much mortality.  Maybe the solution is a three silvers any size, no release allowed and the rods get retired as soon as the limit is in the box.  no "skipper" food for gulls then.

4 hours ago, Trouthunter said:

Why does the DEC have to keep screwing with our fishery leave the dam thing alone mother nature will take care of things do not need hand in everything on this planet

If it were not for DEC, you would not have " your" fishery.  Left alone, Mother Natrure would still be providing a big pond full of alewife that ended up on the beaches every summer, maybe a few of the " native" lake trout would have come back, but all the rest of what you enjoy out there is there due to the efforts of DEC.