Gill-T

Cool.

Wow!!!!

I believe the decade was the warmest on record. Go on Modis/coastwatch for Lake Ontario and look at the Algae blooms going on right now on Erie, Ontario-south shore.....hell even Oneida Lake is in bloom. We are not in the same league as the other Great Lakes. Lady O spits green water.

My eyeballs and common sense mostly. I do actually have a degree in Biology. While many of my colleages on the same tract as me medical/dental school were told to stock up on human biology, I found taking courses in Invertebrate Zoology, Ecotoxicology, Freshwater biology etc etc much more interesting. I can read research journal articles and understand the "geek-speak". Read the LOLA report put out every four years by a Lake Ontario joint commission. The report catalogs the health and make-up of the Lake Ontario food web. There is a new push to study the DCL (Deep Chlorophyl Layer) which is below the thermocline. This layer of water has been found to be extremely productive and is probably driving the short term increase in alewives. While the upper layers of the water column are dropping in productivity, the DCL has increased productivity. This has a negative effect on epilimnion feeders like Emerald Shiners (decreasing population) and favoring adult alewives. The food web has changed. Zooplankton species that dominated the water eight years ago are being completely replaced by new bigger species of zooplankton. Again these changes favor adult alewives. Yes Tileman....I understand the picture quite well. Consider yourself informed.

Nobody disputes this premise. We are only saying we need more Kings right now based on the current bait levels and the survival rates of salmon to adulthood. All gamefish will benefit from a lake in balance. Why are you playing devil's advocate so vehemently? For the life of me I can't figure out what is your angle? Are your DSR cronies not wanting Kings? I would think to keep the parking lots full, the DSR braintrust would be firmly in the camp of pro-kings or am I missing something? Is there an anti-king contingent among river anglers that I am not aware of?

First kill with my heavy 500 grain Easton Axis arrows with 100 grain 4-blade Slick Trick last Saturday. At 20 yards, quartering away, arrow tucked behind last rib, broadhead stuck in far shoulder (lost the front quarter due to blood shot meat). Nothing earth shattering here as far as "bone-breaking penetration". Not much difference than my 325 grain arrow shafts I used to use. The proof will be on a broadside bone impact shot I guess.....and I try to avoid those at all costs. I am really pleased how well the heavier shafts shoot more accurately.

Exactly! Now look at how few fish are stocked in ports like Olcott. I have fished for salmon from Alaska to Chili and I can tell you we are shorting the gamefish capabilities of Lake Ontario. Spend any time trolling in June in Niagara county and you will spend maddening hours upon hours with bait filling your fish-finder with no hooks around it. A lake out of balance.

I do the same with Gobies on Erie. The regulations are a transport issue. Don't put them in a bucket and you won't have a problem. The gobies on the end of your line are going to die via smallmouth anyway. You are doing a service to the ecosystem.

Rich s, the DEC stocked surplus Kings in 2014 probably due in part because they listened to us fishermen who are out there on the water when we told them there was too much bait and not enough predators. The DEC does listen to us to some degree. This is not a fight or pissing match but rather a discussion on how to make things better. Being proactive instead of reactive. Many on this forum obtain their livelihood from the fishery. I could care less if King Davy thinks I am nuts, I harbor zero ill-will to anyone who displays a counter point to the discussion. I have a passion for fishing Lake Ontario since I was a young boy and I have invested a lot of time, thought and money into the sport.....and I don't want to see it go away. There was a window in time recently when the DEC, FWS, and OMNR were so focused on using federal dollars to restore Atlantic Salmon, Lake Trout and Bloater Chubs?? that they took their eye off the golden goose that helps drive the economy.

Davy, I said "should be 100,000 kings running the Salmon" not there ever has been. If we are only going to have one hatchery and only a few tributaries creating naturals, and the state is relying on natural reproduction to fill in the gaps needed to control alewives, then we should be trying to create a run on the Salmon River that takes into account current mortality equations. I also think everyone on this forum would be for increasing steelhead numbers as well.

By your own admission that the fish are probably stopping and spawning on the DSR then what you are describing in not a lot of fish. The run of kings should be 100,000 fish strong. If only 500 fish move up after every rain and gives life to the river for a few days you might be talking about a run of MAYBE 5,000 kings? Not enough to support the fishery's historical number of fishermen. There are 300,000 kings stocked every year in the Salmon River. From the DEC numbers, 76% of Kings caught in the Salmon River by trib anglers are wild so add them to the mix. Add 2 year old early spawners. We are missing fish. There has to be a way with some sort of tripped light-sensor technology that could be placed in rivers to get a crude head count of fish moving up a tributary. It would be nice to put scientific numbers ahead of opinions.

I would have expected a good push of late fish up the Salmon River as it gets stocked the heaviest and there is natural reproduction. The question still is where are the stocked fish in the other tributaries? We have tons of unaccounted-for salmon.

It is a good thing you shot the second one as he probably would be waiting for you the next time you came around LOL. Crazy story.

I like his shows but I often wonder if Charles moonlights as Captain Obvious on those Hotels.com ads. What's this? Late October full moon best time to hunt???? What is this strange phenomenon you speak of? I can't believe he gets paid for this stuff. You be the judge.

So why did they stop? Was there a mortality issue from transport?

How do you guys cook hares? I tried one once and fed the rest to my dog. Cottontails are delicious.

I have thought about this a lot. Getting the babies out into the blue zone where bug life is greatest would be beneficial. Not having to run the gauntlet of browns, cohos and laker predators in the spring would be beneficial. Moving the fish from 60 degree harbor water into 40 degree lake water might just kill them all. Better to hide in the brown shore water with the other bait seems to be the best scenario.

In every trail picture I have seen this year I have noticed the racks this year are more spindly/lacking mass. I am sure the past two winters have taken its toll on antler mass. I have lowered my expectations.

Agreed!!! They should only be stripping late October and November fish and I am glad there are some fish running! Good rains last night.

I have no doubt the Salmon will continue to have fish as there is natural reproduction there. The problems is all the other south shore ports that rely on stocking.

Steve LaPan is up on the issues with Lake Ontario. The interviewer's questions are what many of us have been discussing. I accept most of what he says EXCEPT the part where he stated the Canadian salmon runs are experiencing the same low returns that our salmon runs are experiencing as if it is a lake-wide issue. I would comment that the Canadian runs on the East end have been full of fish. The West end of Canada ARE having similar poor returns on streams there. Therefore, problems with the warm tributaries with no natural reproduction which are reliant on the stocking programs to foster fishable salmon runs (which are getting a failing grade the past two years) points to a potential problem with the stocking program. Natural born kings on the East end of Canada are thriving. Right now we are doing something wrong for the current conditions of Lake Ontario.

Stan have you invented carbon fibered "stealth downrigger balls" over there in silicon valley? Torpedo-style weights are about as low profile as you can get...however, you can't make them completely invisible.