Missdemeanor

They are managed for the lake.... DEC's words

 
Sorry , but all these fish are everyone's fish . 
 
 

Ain't that the truth... I like easy and neat

I get my fill of tangles with 3 lines per person thank you [emoji4]


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"There's no data...Theres No data" .... Show me the data where the current lake steelhead regulation " Up for proposal" will increase the tributary success.... You can't... You know why? Because there is no hard fast data to support the regulation change. The poor stream fishing in the Tribs those years was from the deficiency in the bait.... Not the lake anglers. Saying the steelhead fishing will go down in the Tribs is pure speculation...and politics... Yea I said it.... Politics.. With zero ...absolutley Zero... Science. .. We won't give you guys the increased size limit to 25 inches, but here...take this reduced creel limit... Happy?

Now here comes the stocking cuts... What's next? Oh... You guys are only allowed to fish on every other Tuesday between 0600 and 1300 , when Saturn and Jupiter align... Shocking that a guy from the State was surprised that I knew about the cuts before he called me about it. Little does he know I used to guess ages at local carnivals in a past life...lol

Going to these meetings are very much like watching a used car commercial...except we will never hear the word "Huuuuge" ( unless it's in the context of cutting more kings)....

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Brown's for sure have a diverse diet... They eat Gobies like popcorn all year...

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Yup

Since the Kings are managed for the lake, I say we push to close parts of the Salmon River to promote and preserve natural reproduction.


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The United States (NY) has been Stocking them for a while now... Canada for as long as I can remember... The fish just haven't taken the foothold....Im hearing excuses like "This particular strain"..ect... Doesn't matter what fish they stock, if the bait doesn't show up where the trawls are done, and they cut stocking of other species... Don't add more predators...

Then why do the Atlantics do so well in the waters in the Detour Passage of Lake Huron the University of Michigan has the best stocking program anywhere maybe New York State could learn something from them 

It's not science Shawn.... Our observations don't mean diddly...

I couldn't agree with you more. None of these moves make any sense to me. I am more than a bit sceptical about about their claims of baitfish #'s. I seen crazy amounts of bait most of the summer on my screen

I don't buy into the whole stocking cuts theory at all....
If the DEC was so concerned that the predator /prey ratio was way off... Why were they going to introduce more predators of alewifes into the lake this year?
Here is the story... Pen Rearing fish in general can increase survivability 2:1 for kings and as high as 7:1 for Steelhead.. That is using the science and studies done... So here we have the proposal to Pen rear the Atlantic Salmon that were usually direct stocked... So using the the "Science" , at least twice the number of Atlantic's would survive...and maybe as much as seven times ... Basically more predators being put into a system that is allegedly low on prey ... That doesn't make sense to me so forgive me looking at all the science about predator / prey ratios with a jaundice eye.
I'm glad the guys in the little Salmon River turned down the opportunity at pen rearing Atlantics.Great move until the Alewife "rebounds"and our king stocking numbers return to normal.
Maybe then Lake Trout can be revisited.

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I asked the DEC ,earlier this year, why hasn't there been a Lake Trout stocking in the central basin recently....recently meaning the past 8 years. I was told Lakers are not doing well there.
Hmmmm..... Could be.

Lake Trout from this year...

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That's a real good one.... Had a monster walk out in front of me the other day Bill.he He stood in the road it was a stare down... Driving my wife's '08 vehicle... For a split second I thought..." Hell... It's only a car... We can get a new one..."... Lmao

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I'm no steel worker... So I went to the guys at Chinook Divers and had them make me a set of Rudders. At least 10 other bigger boats out of Rochester had Rudders made by the folks at Chinook Divers.
Rudders are great quality and make a world of difference when trolling in bigger seas.

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Well....... Here's what you know zero about Charlie.... Offshore ( easpecially) in the latter part of the summer, early fall.. Kings and steelhead tend to occupy the same water column. With the water clarity in recent years ( there you go somthing you may know a lot about) lead cores, coppers and other "Junk " lines tend to be more productive for BOTH species. So why would I remove my first string players? I'm not and neither is anyone else.
So let's look at weather patterns in general the last few summers. Very unpredictable. Thermocline had a tough time setting up because it blew in a different direction every other day it seemed like... I fished deeper in the last few years than I have in 40 years out on the lake... So let's just say you get a steelhead on a rigger set at 80ft ( looking through my journal 80ft down was a consistant rigger to go). Steelhead fight themselves to death. The combination of the build up of lactic acid and brining them up from depths....even on a rigger... Kills them.
See you would know this if you were out there and had a little understanding of how it works..
And cheaters are really tough to use when the fleas are waded up out there.
Now on the tributary side, I do not get out and fish it anymore. My personal opinion is, I don't feel ok fishing for fish in a confined space.... Not as bad as a high fenced hunt... But just not my cup of tea... To each his own as long as it's done legally. With that said, I'm in no position to get on a tributary thread and bust fly angler's ball$ about tbe techniques they use. ( as long as it's legal).. You know why I wouldn't? Because I stay in my Lane... Maybe people would take what you say more credible if you stayed in your lane....

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You're correct in June and early July, but get into August and September when thermoclines are 60-80' down in the Western Basin (much deeper on the eastern) and you'd be surprised how deep the Steelhead go. Last September we fished offshore all month and pulled Steelhead down 60-90' all month.

100%..... I fished really far offshore in Late August and all of Sept ( no stagers )... Steel were mixed in with 2yr old kings... 75-90ft down was the most productive

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"LL Bean didn't sell fly fishing equipment back then.  And you were much more likely to encounter a big martin automatic on an ugly stick or a fenwick than Orvis tackle,"

Yea lucky....when I was talking about that tackle....i was speaking about in recent years... The guy in my encounter ( it was about 6 years ago) was geared up to the max... A poser if you will... Similar to a guy who shows up to a gun range with all the latest and greatest guns, holsters , 511 gear... And the guy shoots like garbage.. We call them Tacticool...


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Yea Billy it was just down the road from our friends place. I'm sure he heard me MF-in the guy all the way to his truck...

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It's not quite as blatant as those clowns but it does keep happening...
I was fishing a hole one morning all by myself ...there was about a dozen BTs in it.. Including a big big one ( mid teens). I caught three is 5 drifts when some guy came down on the other side from me... He asked (in a thick southern accent) if I minded that he fished there.. No biggie ..have at it...
He pulls out a fly rod with 4 split shot on it and immediately targets this big Brown.the The guy raked him across the back and hooked the fish in the dorsal... As he fought it, I yelled over for him to break the fish off and that I watched him purposely snag it... He told me that he bought an out of state license and he is going to get his money's worth of this big Brown.I told him If I had to obey the law so did he. After a few F words from our stream friend, I had enough.
I watch him battle this brown and pulled a yellow stringer out of his pocket. I yell over that if that fish goes on that stringer, that I was going to come over and throw his A$$ into the water... Well guy tried to call my bluff...kind of... As he saw me marching across the creek in a spirited pace rolling up my sleeves, he broke off the big brownie and high tailed it to his POS truck with West Virginia plates...
And that was the last time I stream fished... So it's not just the guys back in the 90s with the tuna sticks and spider wire... They have graduated to Orvis fly reels and LL Bean Waders...
Like any crime.. If you see somthing, say somthing...

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I tie My leaders with double Uni knots.. No barrel swivels... I tend to only use enough leader so the knot is near my rod tip ( not through it. Just outside it) and long enough to go to my reel seat... That is enough leader to land a fish without winding the knot through the eyelits... Saves my knots from getting nicked and weakened...
Good luck...

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It's not the law... But if you keep tossing back steelhead ..they tend not to make it... So for the sake of ethics, I try not to catch and release in the middle of the summer...its a little different in colder months... I don't feel right about sore lipping or potentially killing a fish... For what?


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If I'm duck hunting and I shoot my two redheads, can I legally then shoot my buddy' s two? Nope...... So to go by the letter of the law, once you catch your limit that's it... And I don't stay out on schools of fish sore lipping them or tossing back fish that might not make it . Is it legal? Yes... But in my eyes it's unethical if the fish are not going to make it... Such as summer Steelhead.... A limit is a limit and we are done... That's the law....period!

I guess I didn't think of the taking, only the possessing part. It still isn't enforceable regardless

Keeping a Captain and Mate's limit is Illegal

We have pages and pages of people arguing about it. And like admitted, you couldn't produce a picture of a whole limit. This should really be the end of the argument is that on the whole, it doesn't matter if the limit changes from 3 to 2 it will impact probably .005 percent of all the trips on Lake Ontario and you could probably even circumvent it if you really want to by keeping the Captain's and mate's limit on charters if you insisted
 

My apologies to Rob Westcott , Chad Lappa, and Hank Searles.... This topic will only get ugly... So I'm going to gracefully bow out... I posted what needed to be posted

And for the record , you never gave me your contact information at the Sandy meeting. I wouldn't have used it anyway... Adios

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I can't answer for Sandy... Not involved with their pen rearing... However I've been involved in putting the pens ( and taking them out) EVERY year for the past 8 seasons... I don't remember there being anyone I didn't know ...so I don't believe you on that....
I know that when you guys approached with these regulations, the DEC told you guys to get more involved with pen rearing... That's when the spark was lit on these pen projects...
You just didn't give the specifics...
"Dave presenting to the Trout Unlimited New York State council on the DEC Lake Ontario Tributary Regulation changes in NY that need your support & comments. Comment period ends Dec 14th!"
I'm sure you were objective..
Lol..





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Not national organizations.... Such as the NRA, Ducks Unlimited.. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation... And yes Trout Unlimited.
I personally have nothing against any of them... However I take exception to Lake Regulations being brought up and pushed by anglers who are predominantly tributary anglers.... Want to police yourselves and make all Tribs catch and release? Cool...I Trib fish maybe 2x a year... Hardly classifies me as a tributary guy. So in my mind, I wouldn't begin to but my nose in those guys business... However in light of recent events, that may change...
Regarding the Charter Association and Lotsa... These are grass root organizations. organizations that have been doing ALL the pen rearing in the past( This only changed because the DEC told those guys to get involved... Not on their own accord). These are not National chapters..
So there has been some information circulating around alluding to TU being involved in this regulation proposal.
Since Mr Agness is such an outspoken proponent of these regulations and there is proof that he has approached TU for assistance in helping get these regulations passed... I guess what I'm saying is worry about all the snaggers, poachers, litter bugs, and stream erosion from the plan 2014.. and leave us alone on the Lake side...


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I'd say trout unlimited is heavily involved... Isn't that a picture of you giving a presentation to trout unlimited rochester pushing for the backing of these new regulations.... I can tell you we have not approached a special interest group in order to get regulations passed. .... Unethical in my eyes... But who am I?


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I've had swanns make venison products for me... Very good... Recently I've been going to Doug Asbury at Deer Done Right in Albion. Doug does Fantastic work...his Eyetalian Sausage and Cheddar Dogs are awesome... Enjoy fellas

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