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They might be keying on an abundant food source in the lake and not much interested in any other offerings.. next time out, bring along some plain old earthworms.. Everyone uses minnows or small plastic jigs for them these days, but nothing beats plain old worms for perch, shallow or deep.. Worms have saved a lot of trips for me when everything else failed. If using jigs try a little piece of worm on it.. bob

I would never consider entering ANY tournament, for any fish.. ever. However, and awful lot of guys love them, and fish everyone they can.. PILES of dead bass, BIg dead bass, floating or lying motionless on bottom, near the weigh in/release area.. Happens at every bass tournament, yet each year, they are bigger and bigger with more guys entering I feel the same way about Trout/walleye/Catfish/Perch tourneys, not to mention Tuna/Striper/Fluke/ Marlin /Swords in salt water.. As the late great fishing author Frank woolner once wrote.. "Fishing should not be a competitive sport-It should be a contemplative sport".. I concur 100% .... bob

Understood.. No argument but remember, every spring fall and even into winter, guys troll the south end of the lake with flatlines and planers, and keep and eat what they catch.. They troll so close to the sewage treatment outflow, they could hit it with a cast.. bob

absolutely.. Not only that. its running, fast moving water thats been flooded and had the bottom rocks sediments scoured countless times... Most of the crap from the gun factory is out in the lake, buried deep under sediment, where it should probably stay.. I would have NO problem eating anything out of fall creek... bob

Look, its always worth a shot, so don't let my opinion sway you very much.. I just don't do near as well at the end of a very warm september, as I do at the end of a cool october.. Actually for me personally, November is my best bass month by far, and always has been, BUT, I fish mostly Smallmouths, not Largemouths, and they do like cooler water.. Right at this time, if i wanted Largemouths out of Keuka i would fish weed edges from say 10-20 feet at the north end with big live shiners, and leave the plastic worms at home... Smallmouths I would fish rocky points with crayfish colored jigs in 20 foot or so of water... bob

9/25/19- 70 degrees f at pen yan water treatment plant.. I personally don't like sept for bass in any of the finger lakes... They are much more active in late oct.. That water is still very warm. Its been a very warm sept..... bob

Look, it might make sense to try it once or twice.. Things might have changed.. I have not bothered fishing for several years there as it had gotten so bad, but perhaps the gobies and mussels are more in balance now or something.. Personally, I no longer fish there, but you might discover something of which i am unaware.. Things change in these lakes...

At the south end of Cayuga I used to catch gobs of big perch, big rock bass up to a foot long, BIG Bluegills and Pumpkinseeds interspersed with Really nice SMB that would hit the worms or small jigs I used for panfish.. The fishing is not like that anymore.. The Zebra Mussels, Gobies, and a couple of large die offs have devastated the panfishing at the south end.. There are still some perch around in the fall, and I have caught them in around 10-11 feet of water, but as stated its not like it was years ago... Personally, I would say the north end is a lot better.. Although I am only 20 miles from Cayuga south end , I no longer fish there for panfish.. I have switched that type of fishing to Skaneateles, although its a MUCH longer drive.. The pan fishing at the south end of Skinny, is FAR better these days than cayuga, and in fall there are a lot of big SMB as well... Once the gobies invaded cayuga there was a large downturn in the bass and pan fishing at the south end of the lake... Its better at the north end for certain.. Its worth a try, some guys still do ok I think , but not me. I bailed out... bob

if you mean ice fishing you are better off at the north end.. the south end gets weird unworkable ice some years.. Jagged, pushed up into huge filthy sheets with huge ruts gouges and ridges.. You see a few guys out there some years, but its not considered a good ice fishing location.. north end is MUCH better

The town launch is NOT donation.. Its $5, and they check license plates.. Its pretty shallow, but trimmed up until you get near the buoys in the lake you should be ok

There are always some lakers near the plant in the evening say around 6:30-7 PM, in 60-90 FOW.. Might be some smallmouth shallower say 20-30 feet, but personally I have never done much there.. Some others may have had better luck for bass around the plant... bob

The tiller to remote conversion kit was crazy expensive a few years ago, and I recall having a ton of trouble locating a dealer that could get one.. It was $ 700 or something like that.. I looked recently and I couldn't even find one anywhere at any price .. If I can locate one reasonably i will grab it, and then go and simply find a long shaft tiller at around 25 HP as they are easy to find and far cheaper than a remote.. I have wanted a newer cleaner motor for a while, but simply can never find one at that HP in remote steer.. Any thoughts on where the conversion kits can be found??. bob

Well stated, and very good information.. problem is this.. A 20-25 horse 4 stroke is too heavy for this 14 foot Grumman.. not only that, but its remote steer... So i am limited to 1 2 stroke for the 25 or HP I need.. Even a 2 stroke remote in 20-25 HP REMOTE is extremely hard to find.. I had to raise my transom a few years ago,because i needed a 20-25 HP remote steer short shaft and could NOT find one anywhere, and had to settle on a long shaft 28 HP.. Sad to say, some boats were not designed to accomodate 4 stokes.... bob

Personally, i have never done much there for Bass.. others may have.. I have better luck right directly across from the plant on the west side of the lake.. mainly Smallmouth.. If you want Largemouth Bass, I would stick to the north end of the lake, but that gets fished relentlessly this time of year.. Bass boats everywhere in the early morning. and then later in the day the jet skiers and hot rodders take over.. I would say give it a shot .. Personally I see very few guys fishing for bass these days along the mid lake shorelines.. 95 % of fishermen I see out there these days are trolling mid lake, with a few jigging for lakers not far from shore in 70-100 FOW... The lack of Bass fishermen to my way of thinking tells a sad story, because where there are bass, there are bass fishermen... bob

I told him the compression was ok... He simply said, it would cost more to fix than its worth, and come get it.. As I wrote I don't think he ever really looked at it.. maybe for a minute or two, decided it wasn't worth his time to diagnose it.. I can't say why really.. You are right it doesn't add up When I brought it up to him, I explained everything in detail about what it was doing, told him to call with an estimate , unless it was something simple and was going to cost under $250 or so... Its just water under the bridge now, but he and the other shops have lost a potential customer.. As I said, I am now in my mid 60's and was starting to do less of this sort of thing, pulling motors apart.. I will simply do it myself as I always have, or just buy a decent used motor.. Really bad experiences at the last 3 marine engine shops, all reputable.. Could just be bad luck, but I will never again take the chance.. bob

I don't think he wanted to work on it to be honest... he had a lot of other work, big cruisers, total refits etc, and I simply think he never looked at my motor... After waiting from Mid March to mid June, and calling him several times and him saying" we'll look at it soon", he called and said, "come get it, its not worth fixing".. He wanted a bigger pay day than that little motor was going to provide.. When he saw how disgusted I was , he said something about " well you only wanted to spend $200".. I NEVER once said that.. I said to call with an estimate if its going to be over $200.. I told him more than once, I would even have him replace the powerhead if it needed it.. All he had to do when I called about taking the boat 100 miles to his shop was say he didn't want small jobs, or was too busy etc.. DON'T make me drive 2 1/2 hours each way, wait for 3 damn months, and never even look at the motor.. thats what he did.. I told him how disappointed I was, and that I expected so much better, based on all the glowing recommendations i had gotten.. He didn't have much of an answer really, because that was the truth.. He simply should not have had me come all the way up there... The motor looks "well used" to be honest, lived a tough life, but still runs strong.. he probably is used to much cleaner newer, nicer stuff through his shop.... Maybe thats why he said it wasn't worth fixing, but in that case he should have refused the job in the first place, and not had me wait 3 months and miss the entire spring/early summer...bob

I knew it was fuel related, but as I stated, I am a 4 stroke tech, not 2 stroke so much.. I really have no idea what the proper pressure is on an older 2 stroke fuel pump, nor what to use to check it.. maybe ts a plain old vacuum gauge that i used 40 years ago on carbureted engines on cars, not sure.. I had already cleaned the carb and adjusted the floats etc.. Could have also been a bad float or something.. I wanted it done correctly, and was willing to pay a fair price.. I actually had NO problem with the $320 bill, IF I got good value, and a proper repair.. 2 spark plugs, 2 fuel hose ends, 1 $15 fuel valve and an hours labor isn;t worth $320.. Not only that, I specifically told shop #2 to CALL if the bill was going to be over $200.. They did not... My problem is that the motor was not fixed for the $320, and not the price so much, and the fact that any decent marine mechanic should be ashamed if a customer could repair an engine that they could not... Lesson learned.. Next time, I'll just throw parts at until its fixed.. Cheaper by far that way... Hell, a clean used powerhead with good compression for my outboard can be had all day on ebay for $250, I checked... Same thing happens to people with car repairs each and every day.. Techs need to show some pride in their craft, and make SURE their repairs are done right... bob

Thats a well thought out answer, and I can understand.. However it seems these 90's OMC 2 stroke motors are still everywhere, I see a lot of them still in use out there, and both shops in question had older very experienced people there,, These are well established, well respected businesses.. Thats why i am so disgusted. Remember shop #1 told me the motor was shot, come get it, its not worth fixing... Really?.. Doesn't seem like thats a very good evaluation, when its running strong after a simple $12 fuel pump replacement. done in my driveway.. bob

Yes the Selocs do suck.. Lots of good info these days on youtube as well. i have all the tools needed pretty much. just not the time/energy, but I have decided thats no longer an excuse. bob

No, I masked nothing.. it was just a bad fuel pump... I am a retired auto technician and i was a damn good one, Computers, fuel injection, automotive electronics etc. Not a 2 stroke expert however, strictly 4 stoke kind of guy ., However at 65, and with 2 very active grandkids that i watch sometimes 5-6 days a week, I have been tending to "leave it to the experts" more as i grow older. This last fiasco has taught me to NEVER under any circumstance trust the "experts", even those that are highly recommended.. I'll just do it myself.. It was a very simple repair that should have been found quickly by shop #1.. The fact that TWO shops couldn't fix such a simple problem is shocking to me. Plus changing lower unit oil hat was just changed, and changing plugs that had nothing to do with the high speed cutting out is telling me that someone was simply padding the bill.. On top of that, AFTER I paid $320 for diagnostic time, AND "repairs", I am told "We can water test it for $150".. WHAT?... As stated, I will never again trust any place to fix anything.. I have always done so myself, and should have kept on doing what I always did.. Even buying factory tools you only use once is better than paying that kind of money AND almost 4 months time, for a repair that did not happen.. FOUR damn months, $320 to shop #2, and $75 gas driving 400 miles total back and forth to shop#1,and these 2 reputable shops could not figure out a weak fuel pump on an old Johnson 28?.. I simply took a day when the kids weren't here, got a few tools out, and had it fixed within an hour, for $12.. Never again.. Sorry for the rant, I am just pretty bitter, as I lost all of April/May and June with no boat, when I started getting it taken care of in Mid march... It is what it is.. Like I should have done in the first place, and always have done since i was a kid, I'll do it myself , and if I can't I'll just buy another... bob

My motor is an early 90's 28 HP Johnson.. Took it in mid March to a very highly regarded repair shop that I was directed to right here on these pages.. Its a 2 1/2 hour drive -100 miles each way from me.. Called a few times starting late April regarding status of the repair........ "we'll get to it, we'll get to it"... Fast forward to mid June.. Finally got a call.. Come get your boat, the motor is shot.. Not worth fixing... Furious ,I again drove the 100 miles each way, The motor was never even looked at, I am certain... Brought it to highly qualified OMC dealer, decades of experience, much closer to me... They called 2 week later.. motors done come and get it.. $320... Here is what $320 bought me.. 2 new spark plugs that it did not need, motor was running ok at low speed, and started fine.. NOT a bad plug problem Maintainance valve kit [$14 online], 2 fuel line connector ends -one at 6 gal tank, one at motor.. 1 pint lower unit lube that i just changed last year when I replaced water pump, had less than 5 hours.. anyway,Took boat to lake, same problem,, dying at speed... When I called them, the "reputable dealer", said they could lake test the boat... for an additional $150, and then repair it correctly, ... maybe... disgusted at the ineptitude and what I consider price gouging, me, the know nothing do it yourselfer, had it repaired properly in 5 minutes with a $12 cheapo ebay fuel pump.. Motor now runs 100%. with a $12 part installed by a guy with only modest knowledge of 2 strokes... How these people can hold their heads up and consider themselves good business owners and technicians is beyond me,,, This goes hand in hand with a Merc dealer a few years ago that charged me $325 to install a water pump impeller in a merc 9.8.. NEVER as long as i live will i EVER again say, that I'm "getting too old,too tired too busy" to deal with outboard repairs... each time I have tried has been a disaster, Next time, if i can't find or fix the problem myself, I'll just buy a used outboard ...