King Davy
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To Dave's point is it really a shock that not everybody that fishes this watershed doesn't hold the King salmon close to their heart? If your wife or best friend would rather eat a Chillian Sea Bass, rather then your all time got to die for favorite Prime Rib are they now an idiot? We haven't disagreed that they aren't a fun fish to catch, at least he and I and probably some others have other favorites. I think that's a good thing. I can be just as entertained sneaking up on a trickle in a PA mountain stream, with a size 16 sulfer I tied at breakfast, with hardly any clearance from the forrest canopy make a perfect 30 foot cast into a tight spot of less then six inches to catch the current perfectly (which means I "Read" the flow to perfection), and have an inches fish (not in pounds) come up with the same reckless abandon as a 30 pound salmon attacks a fly or spoon and eat that bug.....and have the fish bend my 3 weight cane rod to the handle. I like trolling, but I love hunting fish in difficult places and conditions....and there are no numbers that I derive as a successful day ...except the number 1. I'm an old old cat doing this for nearly 50 years...and all fish make me happy. Gill started an interesting thread, I like it...cause, nothing lasts for ever folks. From 1970 until what the early 2000's?? I could go out anywhere on our South shore and catch tons of black bass. I mean it was insane...100 fish days if you wanted to spend the time was doable. How about now? Was good for 30 ...off the hook good...now GONE! Just got back from the 1000 Islands ....never saw ONE boat fishing the St Louie from the cape to the lake on a perfect day. It's all good....cause at the end of the day....with jobs, health issues, worriying about your kids if you have them, friends and family....It's just fishing folks. Let's hope we can keep it all in perspective. Cheers. -
One of the other reasons Canada has wanted for many years to get out of the Coho game??? They didn't return to their rivers well. Heck they might give up on Atlantics and go to Sockeye next, but forget about trolling for them unless you can pull lettuce behind you rotators.
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And has been heavily funded by private money, and not all federal money. Gambler....they started cutting King and Coho stocking way before this all started. Coho are stocked as survivable fish that are nearly a year and a half old.....not fry that are an inch at length. To where a blue gill could eat it. You can believe it or not but with the majority of all fish swimming from rivers on the North Shore being naturally reproduced including millions of king salmon smolts, the Canadian's have been reducing hatchery stocking for a decade.
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SY2....where has it been written that the Atlantic salmon study is to replace the other species? That's totally unfounded, but rather assumed I guess by suspicious thoughts of others? I've never understood this. While it wasn't popular in 1993 to cut King stocking simply from a science perspective to protect the food web and feed the fish we had until the forage base rebounded and stocking increases for salmon resumed..(which obviously it has and continues 21 years later) people have been crying about some under the covers covert operation to get rid of King salmon. Native species studies have been going on in this lake and the GL since Seth Green started playing around the Genny 130 years ago. I stand corrected if there is great effort on the NS open water, but you and I both know that more effort happens on your tributaries from Sept to May. Now I'm being a smart a$$ but I'm starting to worry about some of you folks...you must be losing sleep at night worrying about all the secrete meetings going on at the USGS, MNR and DEC to end the dreaded King stocking. REALLY???
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Folks everybody has to seriously get updated on your facts for the Atlantic Salmon study. No hatcery space that would be produicing other fish in Canada or the US are being pushed aside for this study. The key word is a study. The current work is looking at results of strains, and more importantly how it relates to habitat. I fish with, and hang out with several biologists with MNR that have worked on this study. The 600,000, and soon 200,000 that will go in on the NYS side is still a lab experiment, that isn't focused on creating a sport fishery (YET!) It's to try and find a starin that marries to a habitat that encourages their return to spawn....and successfuly spawns. And yes the results haven't been stellar. My Biologist friends have been diving in open water off the study streams and have witnessed 100's sometimes 1000's of newly smolted Atlantic's that have done what they are supposed to do, from the fry state. Smolt and head to open water. BUT they haven't retuned as adults successfully in measurable numbers. WHY????? that's the $64 Million question isn't it. It's science, and no matter what you want to belive science runs the entire show including the Pacific species. Let me ask you this. Would any of you be happy if we were only loading 600K kings in this fishery with what has historically been a survival rate to adult returns of hatchery fish of less then 7%? The King Salmon fishery we have today has since day one for the past 40 years been a stocking number ALWAYS in the Multi millions. What happen in the mid 90's when it got cut? Everybody moaned and the salmon fishing was tough. But there in lies the key. You can't create even a hatchery sport fishery with less then millions of fish in a watershed this size. Not hundreds of thousands. So stop expecting this to be a boom for sport fishing just yet. Also the target isn't to create a "put and Take" fishery. It's to create a fully natural fishery. Not the same thing. If you think Canada would be spendng money on King salmon if they weren't spending it on this native species you aren't paying attention. If not this then Coastal Brook Trout, or other native species. Go read the reports section for the past three weeks everybody belly aching and getting nervous about where are our kings. They've always been there, beside the 3 million that are stocked there are millions more naturally reproduced, yet at times you guys think they disappeared cause you can't catch them. And like Steelhead ...Atlantic Salmon are not a top contender as a trolled for fish. They aren't anywhere in the world. They are a river fish, and Canada happens to have more natural reprodcing streams then any place in North America. Especially on the North Shore of LO. A Dozen tribs on the North shore produce nothing but wild steelhead. One would think that they might also handle Mr. Salar. HENCE the effort folks. And like it or not....it's just not all about open water fishing. And the effort numbers don't lie...especially in Canada. The trib game IS THE game. How much is going on on the LO Canada open water reports? I'll end with this....open your eyes....we are the luckiest people on the planet when it comes to trout and salmon fishing. We have something for everybody. I've been fortunate to fish the world, and while I love many species in other places...there is no place like home. Go catch kings and big browns lakers and steelhead, and get off the Atlantic Slamming band wagon. Let the science guys try and figure this out. Look at the fishing reports on creels from the lake the last 10 years it's been through the roof with success. This Study for SURE isn't messing up your lake trolling. So why belly ache about it? You can help them by releasing as best as possible all the adult Atlantics you catch. Be part of the solution. Help us out.
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I don't know ...but Baitrigger did mention a low testorterone issue which could be taken as a manhood slam. It's easy to detect all the chest pounding, and long live the king stuff as postering one's man hood on here which my generation would describe one who must pound their chest may be compensating for other "Short Comings". I never associated catching a fish with having a sexual makeup or being a "Man". I say that as I'm married to a true world class angler who easily can handle everything from Salmon to 100 pound Tarpon. If you've seen Linds fish, you would never mistake her for a man. Gill asked what would you do if there were no King Salmon in the lake. DNR as myself, simply are stating we'd enjoying fishing just as much and in some cases more. Having a Trib devoid of the Salmon rapers sure would be enjoyable. I guess from the majority of the responses many of you would fold up your tents and go home. For us that enjoy all the fish in the lake and the Watershed system.....that's also not bad news. Less pressure more enjoyable experience. While Pacific Salmon anywhere on the globe spawn and die, all the other migrators do not. In fact do the math, a Steelehad typically spends more time in a river then in the lakes. I ran a boat for hire for 22 years on the lake....and caught more King Salmon then many of you might catch in a life time. They are a wonderful fish in open water. IMHO They are not in a river if hooked and fought by legal methods. Also IMHO, a Steelhead hooked in the lake while sporting, in my 44 years of fishing for them in the GL as well as the rest of the planet are much more sporting in a river on light tackle. I've read with interest in the reports section many trollers who have had trouble finding Kings through the transition period which is historically normal, reintroducing themselves both Pro's and Rec's to the other species in the lake, with the revelation that "Hey...these fish are fun as well". I still fish all the Great lakes, and Pacific salmon fishing has diminished in most of them, but Unless all those fishing boats sitting in Marina's I see every year have just become summer cottages, those guys have figured out they still enjoy trolling the lakes. There is a huge faction of people who beat Erie to a froth for a fish that fights like an old shore, and you couldn't get them to leave their game for all the king Salmon in the world. We are lucky to have such a diverse fishery. I'm willing to bet that most of you who have made it sound through your words that you'd be just short of slitting your wrists if no Pacific salmon swam in this lake....might actually change your mind if presented that situation. Stay home and weed the garden or go catch 20 pound lakers and browns on light tackle, or even a FLY ROD...who KNEW???? Some of us already do!
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Yes PA, we've jigged up Kings...late July and Aug. Of course it would work for staging fish in Sept.
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Gill T for the fun of it I'll toss in another angle. Why always "TROLL"....ever jig kings, bows, lakers ...browns up. Seven foot medium light spinning outfit. I've taken 15 to 20 pound lakers as deep as 180 feet on a jigging outfit, and because I wasn't dragging them to the surface on copper lines and dipsey divers etc the fight was fantastic. I may get back into the game once I retire, and offer Fly fishing charters for these fish. I've mentioned before we used to tether off my big boat in 600 foot of water and catch steelhead on flies, sometimes on dry flies off the surface. We've jigged up staging kings in August. The spring fishery is made for tossing feathers, especially in shallow water. July would be the tough month for fly fishing, but jigging comes into play easily enough. Especially when you locate balls of bait with hooks ideling near by. Rip a jig below that bait and hang on. Works in saltwater....and we've done it in LO. As much as I enjoy the trolling game....I'd easily trade it for feeling the fish hammer my bait. There used to be a bunch of us in the late 70's and 80's who played this game out of the box.....I don't see it mentioned anymore. Catching fish with Rod in hand ....all of the species are fun...not just Salmon.
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Collin....nice job on the fishing.....I told your dad he needs to let you set up both sides of the boat since most of the fish are coming off your sets.(ha ha)...Let him relax and drink his "Cold" coffee.... On a persional note from all us Atalntic Salmon river fly fishers...thanks for putting that beautiful fish back for others to enjoy. -
Rick no question you are a great fisherman, but it's truly not fair to the fish if you are going to take "Lil Walter" out as well. Better watch out if he shows up with a big rig some day and puts a crew together to take you boys on in the Tourneys. Never met a young guy more fishey then Walt.. -
They are Gill Lice or Flea's and they are in the Great lakes as well as the Oceans. They aren't the same as the sea lice you see stuck to the skin of a sea run fish. I was fishing the Sandy River in the Aluetian Islands in South West Alaska and we caught some dime bright Bering Sea Steelhead that had Gill fleas. And they do harm the fish with regards to growth rates....fish we saw were much slimmer, and also greatly reduced their energy....because obviously they are clogging their breathing. I've caught Steelhead in Ontario, Michigan, and Huron with them as well. DEC and MNR are aware of them, and from what I understand here to stay and pretty much impossible to get rid of. -
Several factors in play for the setup and migration of Thermal bars. Weather and wind direction play a big role along with lake currents. In a normal spring (Mid April to Mid June) you'll start to see offshore temp migration around the first week of May (but can always be earlier or later depending on the spring). By the LOC derby first full week of May it's not uncommon to be able to locate fish a couple miles off shore, to as many as five or six. My years of keeping data on Thermal bar fishing is I found my best fishing in the 49 degree down to 43 degree zones. Pretty simple head off shore and watch your surface temp gage. I always wanted a sharp break of two to three degrees in say a 1/4 mile. I would set up on the lower temp number in the break, and troll back to the higher number. Making north and south ovals until I had crossed all the variants. Many days you'll find sharp breaks in as little as 100 yards, and you'll want pull back the throttles. The colder the water the more dense it is, and will become a barrier for debries including midges that hatch like crazy out there. I've found Coho's and Steelhead on top eating bugs that are hatching or just dying in a spinner fall. This activity also attracts bait fish species, and you pretty much have the dinner table set for you. The rules in fishing temp breaks is....there are no rules. You can find fish in a half degree break many times, and temp breaks in the 50's also hold plenty of fish. I would run to the colder edge most times, stopping for sure if I found a quick drop in a short distance, but if not "I'd locate the mid 40's and then troll back in....figuring I had more fish in front of me then behind me. I'm sure you'll get many more folks chiming in on this.
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Rick.....The one thing I can say is that the River Stewards Fran has in place...know their stuff...they aren't just sititng in parking lots ...they walk the river. By this time frame it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a brown and an Atlantic Salmon....Male fish. You would have a hard time with the salmon kype and tiny head not giving it away....Male Brown trout don't Kype anywhere near the AS. Can mistakes be made in ID's for sure.....but the fact is this is what they recored being on the river every day. I would have to give them the benefit of the doubt .... They have no reason to make it up...the program isn't going away whether they caught 700 fish , or 4. There is one other tell tale sign....in most instances....not all...you won't find a brown trout eight feet in the air...dead give away that brown spotted fish, that has a white or silver belly, not Butter yellow...isn't a German brown trout.
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Tom DEC here are the words right out of the report - 2011 The 2011 charter catch rate for Rainbow Trout was the fourth consecutive year of record or near record highs, and was the 5th highest on record. rainbow trout catch rates, at 0.72 fish per outing, were at record high levels for the fifth consecutive year. Catch rates were at or near record highs in every month of the April-September survey, Steelhead are available to tributary anglers for nearly 9 months and for five of those months pretty much the ONLY salmonid in play. So pretty simple with the largest effort now being on the tribs that these fish are accessed often. But as we've all seen over 90% of the fish caught (and we also all know what makes them so valuable they are caught several times) are released. In the same report it did mention that harvesting of steelhead on the lake was starting to tail off...so Lake anglers have started to understand the vaule of a great sport fish that doesn't spawn and die off as well. Since the 1 Steelhead limit went into play on he Tribs Oct. 2004...salmon river returns of steelhead jumped from 3 to 4K at the hatchery, to well over 10,000 fish through the hatchery, with estimates from River Stewards that work the river every day that on a few of those years as many as 20K steelhead were in the river. The Lake Catch rates in that time frame also are seen in what DEC describes as record and near record catches. Pretty simple if fish don't swim in coolers, they still swim in the lake and rivers...for anglers to catch. Got another pretty interesting fact from the SR yesterday. In 2011, Sept to Nov, River Stewards reported nearly 700 Atlantic Salmon caught by river anglers. For there to be that many caught, there must have been a few 1000 that returned to the River. Don't have figures for 2012...I would imagine they were lower with the low water issues.
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Tim....the only thing I think you are misisng here is the fact that the lake creel census did show a significant up tick in Steelhead caught and harvested the past three years, with a few record all time catches...so while I understand the targets are kings for true salmon fishermen....the fact that steelhead are being ignored isn't truly the case. They are part of the adventure in the open water fishery as well and obviosuly with the succcess results ARE being targeted. One thing would happen for sure if Steelhead became "king" we'd finally have everybody on the same creel limit....1 fish per angler...as the Great Lakes Fishery Commisison has always maintained that the Steelhead fishery was targeted for Great lakes tribs....and fortunately it became a viable opportunity for all anglers both on the lake and tribs. In Canada they finally got it. They want those fish for a year round fishery, and they depend on wild fish....so lowered the Lake limit same as the tribs. And let's knock off all the crap about snagging steelhead etc. Over 90% of the trib anglers have no intention to kill those fish, and if you spend as much time on the tribs as I do...(North of 150 days a year) you'd understand that fly, float and spin anglers are not snagging these world class fish. The other thing that is happening with Wild Pacific Salmon in LO is they are surviving in every trib with viable water supply that can maintain cold temps (up to about 62 degrees) into early May which in most years is attainable. I can tell you I've spent many April's on The Oak...and watched school after school of little Chinnies swimming around in the softer water. They have a long ride to the lake, and have to pass many predators...but as far as sucessfully hatching and making it to that stage to leave the river....even our south shore tribs are producing lots of fish other then the salmon. I did a talk for a Charter Boat group many years ago.....and stated that the effort was going to increase significantly on the tribs (which it abvioulsy has) ....and that both lake and trib interest should band together with DEC USGS, and MNR and work this fishery as what it actualy is....a 12 month a year Gem. That we can't be divided in our focus.....we have habitat issues (including the lake) ...we have social issues, management decisions that affect both some times equally....that if we looked at this resource from a business standpoint it would be in our benefit to focus it across the 12 months that it produces revenue....TOGETHER...not divided. That fell on deaf ears...and still does. And that's too bad. We are missing a great opportunity.
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Gill.....High Taxes.....focused on the Salmon and trout stocking.....REALLY. Not due to Social Medicine...and tons of Gov't programs for a million other serious concerns of people and their livelyhoods? I pay high taxes so we need more kings...not better schools, more teachers, better medicine (since I have that social program), roads bridges, facilities and utilities? King Salmon? They don't stock steelhead anymore either Gill.....why ....because they don't have to. If the bait population crashes.....you'll want Salmon stocking to be adjusted. Else you could end up with NO fish to fish for. Ask those that lived through the LM crashes and are worried to be on the edge of a third....and see if they are on the same page. Yeah I see all the yelling and screaming going on up there...but the majority of anglers who know better ...KNOW ...you manage your fishery from the food stocks...not from the fish stocks. YOU Gilly know this more then most with your background. We've been fortunate...and I think many of us know why...we are in the envious posiiton to have all the fertilizer rolling to us and why we through all the ups and downs in the upper lakes have seen very few difficult times...but if as they say the $^*t stops rolling down hill and food stocks dwindle....make your adjustments as best you can to keep a viable fishery (for both the lake and tribs)...or sell all your stuff. This discussion of finding a key to open the door of a fishery science problem as idiotic .......is only an opinion..........and you get to have one....so do those that are on board with that work. And for a growing number of anglers (including those with heavy wallets)...we've not on the side of the idiotic concern.
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So with all that said.....back to the original post in this thread....are you really worried about Atlantics replacing pacific species. I've met Roger as well...can't say he's a friend...got to tour his hatchery. The key is not only planting fish right in the Soo...is finding a strain that will inprint and return...which Roger did...after 15 years of hard work....point is....it has and can be done. I know I've been around this fishery a log time only since I started cathing these fish in 1971....I don't think I've stated that there is any danger of AS replacing anything....for many of the problems others have stated. NOT all fish in a river system swim to the lifting elevators folks. Just like NOT all wild Chinnies show up at the hatchery. I fish and have fished all of the North shore tribs to LO since the late 70's...and Wild Atlantic Salmon surely can survive in a habitat that can support a wild or naturally reproduced steelhead. So saying those very same streams that do promote natural Steelhead survival won't for AS is just plain stupid. In the end.....does anybody truly disagree that we don't now....and have for I don't know.... 40 years had a world class fishery here for diverse species. Is everybody so short sighted that while some programs are very sucessful and are able to maintain this valuable resource it's an absolute disater if we TRY.....even try different methods to figure out this puzzle. And then there is just this one other little Item ....juuuust a tiny tid bit...Darryl.....This fishery simply ISN'T JUST ABOUT YOU...and or the lake fishery.....in fact in both Canada and for sure the US....the trib effort vastly overshadows the lake for angler effort. This is a 12 month a year resource and as it should be ....be diverse as possible. The funding in Canada has been both provincial and private ...well the private side....None of your Bitness...my friend....not your call. For us in the US...play with the feds folks....they aren't hurting your fishing. In the next two weeks the fishing report thread is going to LIGHT up with reports for 30 40 and 50 fish days trolling boards through the shallows...followed by May and June reports of fish from 50 feet of water to 400....dime bright pacific fish...everybody back slapping,...and high fiving and stating it's better then the 80's......and you know what ...for a guy who Charted a boat in the 80's....and thought this was heaven....I'd agree today is better then back then...it's exciting..... And when all that starts happening ...are all you guys cowering in the corner of the dreaded return of the Atlantic Salmon if it were to ever happen ...as if they'll run down every chinnie and bite it in half...women and children will be rushed from the beachs out of the water.......REALLY be worried about these fish...and this study...no matter how long it's gone on REALLY??? Ohh I get it EVERY dime...every penny we can scrape off the bottom of our shoe....find in the parking lot HAS to be spent on Pacific Salmon? Dam I keep missing that memo. I'm fortunate enough to fish all over the place.....and I've never been any other place on the planet where the fishing is EASIER then LO....other then maybe the Kenai River in Sept, with 4 Million sockeye in the water with plenty of rainbows and Dollys sitting behind them. And anybody I ever took fishing in the 20+ years that I guided...did I ever have somebody say to me...."We have better fishing where I live". In fact the only thing I've ever heard ...and I would be willing to bet ...that most people our fishing professionals encounter as well as the rec guys ...say....OMG...do you know how great you have it? Well...that's the new question here....DO WE? Let's get a grip boyz
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Gill......honestly....in a normal summer the water becomes troublesome for them being caught about Mid july....and I can't say everyone gives up then, but you won't find very many people harrassing those fish. The majortiy of the fish ARE in the closed Lower Fly Section of the river by then. There is plenty of cooler water in there.....so nobody is fishing that after May 15. There are a few more natural springs that cool the SR down stream, and there are fish in those slots as well. Atlantic Salmon spawn in the fall.....and by then as you can imagine the entire river is loaded with people and pacific fish.
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Well honestly...we have issues with bad fishing habbits all over the Great Lakes....I wish it weren't so....and it just going to take an eveloution of anglers to drive the skulldugery away. I'm nearly 60 years old and have been chasing these fish all over the GL for 40 years I can honestly say I'm more encouraged by many of the young anglers I see coming up. Many more have an awareness of the fishery (in this case Trib fishery)....as far as the value of these fish...see young guys handling fish properly. Always room for improvement but in my opinion getting better and better. I think the biggest case for easing the replacement thoughts is simply that the AS program is a long way from even being a viable fishery choice in LO. However there is VERY BIG money in Atlantic Salmon fishing....and enough interest to improve this once natural fishery especially in LO...because of it's rich history. It would never make a lick of sense to replace a wildly successful Lake and trib fishery with the Pacific species and brown trout for this. In all my years involved with the scientists that run these programs and manage this fishetry have I ever heard a single one of them talk about any kind of agenda to trade one for then other. Personally I just don't ever see that happening. Nor as much as I enjoy AS...I also enjoy all the other fish...call me greedy and selfish...but I want it all. This is a tough nut to crack...and maybe why those involved are attracted to it.
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Once again, for USGS to run around in the lake and do trawls and study bait fish populations, and lake trout studies.....and bio mass .....to have those funds to do that...comes with a term and condition. Studies, and programs to work with restoration of Native species has to be included. You take that away....the Feds don't have the backing of the funds to do all the other stuff. I don't think anybody wants that. The North shore has 10 rivers with smolt raising qualities...and why they put in fry, the program is to try and establish self sustaining stocks...not stock them for ever like the other species. This isn't a put and take program Gambler like the rest of this fishery. This is restoration science....it isn't just about creating a fishing situation...just like originally the Pacific stockings were NOT done to create a Sport fishery. Some fishing opportunities arise out of this....and they have....I've yet to see anybody on the lake complain about some silver rocket jumping behind their boat...nor will you ever hear a trib guy complain about catching those same fish in a river.... Actually in 2010....we had some creel work going on the Oak...in conjunction with Ron at Orleans Outdoors ....and we tried to keep track of the AS caught and reported...and in the end the number reported was in that range I talked about. Many reported and confirmed with photo's. Are they targeted in the fall ...No...they are happenstance....are they targeted by a growing number of us in the early summer.....you bet. LFZ is closed in the summer for these fish to pair up to spawn....and with the use of underwater cameras and a diver from time to time, USGS and DEC have found a couple hundred fish pairing up. Again not so concerned about being able to fish to them at the moment.....but more the proof that we have large spawning adults back to a natel trib. Mine and others who are interested in this...isn't just about how many fish we can catch. We are way behind the CRAA...but LOTAC has now planted over 20,000 tress in the upper river that someday will contribbute to better habitat. And last year we started at the Oak with 3000 trees...and will continue there. Lots of things going on...that I don't think a whole lot of people are aware of. However I would agree unless there is habitat changes in some places South shore recruitment will be tough. But as in Huron they have found a strain that recruits well and is suited to the elements. The St. Mary's program is spectacular....they are getting a returns of 5 to 7000 fish a year to that river. The st Mary's is bolsterd by cool water coming out of Superior...however Altantic Salmon are very capable of doing well in high 60 degree water...and last Aug when I fished it the water was 72 degrees...and I can tell you those LLocks were as bad a$$ as they were when it was 55 60 degrees. I took a 15 pound dime bright adult that jumped 7 times(5 feet in the air)....and into my backing three times on the SR.....On June 23....at 10:30 AM in 67 degree water. These fish are very hearty....the key is to find a strain like they have in Huron that do well in our conditions. The Huron program is proof that it's posisble to create a full fledged sport fishery in the GL.
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Yeah Tom....Johnson is raising a few different strains at Tunison, truly not sure which one they've been favoring lately and will find out...I'll ask Fran today....but they've had better results of fish returning to the SR and sucessfully spawning....and like I said earlier unless those fish everybody was catching in 2010 when the AS catch kind of exploaded from what it had been the Canada fish couldn't have been that size....so they are either US stocked fish...or Wild Atlantic salmon. Everybody who sees the numbers realizes they aren't going to be a big player in this environment...but they have filled a gap some what for some Spring Summer trib fishing. Couple years ago (same 2010) ...there were actually a few hundred caught in Oct/Nov. at Pt Breeze up river. They were stocking I think about 5000 at the Harbor every year. Not sure if they still are or not. I've caught them trolling fun...but not nearly the same fish as in a river on the swing...or even a skated fly. Much like many people that trib and lake fish would prefer to catch a King in open water rather then in a river....
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Hey Chris.....I think I could guess which county might be lacking on promoting the fishery. I remember back in the 80's ...I'd have anglers coming in from out of town...as I set up their hotels for them...they'd say...hey we want to stay on the water. I'd be embarrased to tell them,. that there isn't a single room on the water in this county....closest they could get was Ridge Road. Here we are 30 years later.....and there still isn't (to my knowlege...possibly some B&B's) a hotel in this town on the water. At work I have fish pictures around...and people will say where the heck did you catch that big Steelhead (that is after I tell them what kind of fish it is)...and I point out the window at the Genny....and they think I'm full of @#*& The whole world is trying to bring back Atlantic Salmon fishing...any success has been in tiny little baby steps...but for some of us who cherish these fish simply for the sport that they are.....will continue to be OK with those tiny little steps...and keep pluggng away. After so many years of this....IMHO...the last thing anyone would ever have to worry about is a push to put Atlantic Salmon ahead of our Kings. Be good folks...have a safe start to the Lake fishing season.
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Gill....and others...NYS....and the Feds...were in this program WAY before the North Shore. We have always been messing around with Atlantic Salmon...the Canadaians just jumped in in earnest five years ago. If Canada said tomorrow....we are all done with AS...that isn't going to change what Jim Johnson and DEC are doing in NY. And anybody that thinks those adult Atlantics you've been catching the past couple years out there are Canadian fish....you are wrong...and in fact it was confirmed by Janet at the SOL in Rochester this past Tuesday night for those that were in attendance. Those fish you've caught are OUR fish...not Canada's. 2010 the numbers of lake caught fish started to be noticable...and into 2011. Those Tiny minnow Canada fish put in ..in 2007 and 8....couldn't be 7,8 10 pound fish two years later. Those are NYS fish. Atlantic salmon don't have nearly the faster growth rates that Chinook do. Guys...everybody is so leary of DEC and USGS having an Agenda to repalce or get rid of something else....and you all are afraid its King Salmon. All they are doing is running the program that started all this in 1968...which included work on native species. Go read the Mission Statement of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission.....it's clearly including Lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon. I realize we always have things to worry about with the health of the fishery especially around the Bio mass...which is the life blood of this thing. And becasue we are human...and truly are a "Special Interest" group no matter if you fish the tribs the lake or both...we have strong opinions of how to run this thing. Yet we have a fishery that at least for me was producing fish since 1972...and today is better then it's ever been before...and yet we are still nailing the very people who provide the opportunity. Just once I'd like to go to the SOL meeting...and at the end...have everybody in the audience....and I was one of them...so I feel I can say this....Charter Capt's stand up....and applaud the Scientists that are before you...clap shake their hand...and say Thank you for your hard work.
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Well...there are anywhere from 7 to 10 million wild King salmon fry that hatch just in the salmon river....and only a fraction of them survive to become adult returning fish. If DEC put in 2.7 million Salmon king Fry....you wouldn't have the salmon fishing you have out there either. The Canadian's are putting 600,000 fish the size of your big toe nail. Big difference between a tiny minnow ...and a six seven inch fish that is about a month from ever being bait again...as opposed to a fry that is a target for over a year. Why Fry????...because to be successful in recreating native species...is to have them lock into being wild again... Gambler this is a different story then the Stock Restock game we play with the put and take fishery. In Canada ....the MNR's program is bolsted by a Whisky Comapany as well as Private groups like CRAA and in the US....federal Grants account for most of the investment, that are slated for just this program...and have been since about 1984. And believe it or not...there is a growing number of dedicated and very interested group of us that support this and volunteer to work on it...and truly enjoy a dime bright 15 pound muscle bound salmon that has just yanked your arm out of place is into your backing almost as fast as a False Albie.....and you find yourself looking up in the trees at a fish that has Tarpon air capabilities....and can get to eight feet above the water line doing a double twist two somersault with a half gainer back to the H2o.... That's Why. Not all the great fishing is only happening on LO in June....shhhhh....please don't tell anybody.
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Well it all depends on what you call significant. From no fish...to a few years of 2 to 3000 fish.....some might consider significant. Atlantic salmon returns are in flux all the time due to temps and weather. I think we all can agree we experienced some of the poorest water conditions for tributaries last summer and fall since the 1930's. And again one of the main reasons nobody should get all worried about Atlantic Salmon replacing any other fish.