King Davy

Ha ha....100,000 fish? there has never been a run of 100K fish in the salmon river. You must be fishing at the mouth of the Kenai river Gill. The DEC handled Aprox 800 fish last year to take 4.2 M eggs. I may have fished on fish to a "TuG" ratio of 500 fish for five bites going by in a couple hours...in about 150 yards of an 11 mile long river. I hope your not in an accountant Gilly...or work for the IRS....

Well Rich.....that's why they do the science. Cause there are several contributing factors of why the fishing is GREAT, or is lousy. I have to laugh sometimes. Why is it nobody wants to know when the fishing is Great....WHY it's great...calling for DEC's head to tell us why are these fish so healthy, and the runs are fantastic and every boat is limiting out? Cause if you knew why it is when it's successful, one might answer the why not so successful time frame, with elements that might be missing when it was successful. Ok enough of the logic.... Multiple species wildlife and fish have been affected in this part of the world the last two years, starting with adverse weather patterns. When I say affected, I don't mean all in a negative manner...but that the norm wasn't the norm the past two years. In science one of more changes to the "Norm" triggers a chain reaction of changes that can make finding the "Paper Trail" much more difficult. It also results in research that may not be part of the "Normal" process of investigating the health and well being of in this case fish species. And if countering the changes with one of more actions without vetting out all the possibilities, may put you deeper in the hole. Nobody likes the time frame it takes to get results, review the facts and results among the science community to agree on a finding, and therefore agree on a mitigation approved action to counter the negative situation....BUT we have to buy into that this will take some time. I won't be happy this fall winter and spring fishing to way less Steelhead most likely then in years past, but It won't ever stop me from fishing. I will have to wait for the answers. That I know DEC and USGS is researching. Here is the interesting thing despite the off fishing, you still can't find a lonely stretch of a river or stream these days. I guess most people are still willing to go fish. All I know Rich.....is that on Sunday I fished to fish all day. I choose to fish a method that only gets a positive result in unlocking a fishes primal instinct to chase and kill my swung fly. I choose not to stand over a pool and lob flies and shot in on top of a bunch of fish. I want a player. When it comes to Salmon who are in spawning mode, you are lucky to get a pull or two a day many times. Sunday I observed fish all day showing themselves moving up river. The percentages of having a King Salmon chase and eat a swung streamer from past experience in my records is probably 1 in 100. I had five pulls and landed two wonderful fish. One was a 30 pound monster hen. So maybe I showed my fly to 500 fish during the day.

Was at The salmon yesterday. Fishing down low. Plenty of fish moving in, and talked to a good friend and fishing partner who works the DSR. Since so many salmon are nesting in the DSR, which may be that as late as they have arrived and found the first gravel they like have set up on it... DEC is taking the opportunity this week to come on the DSR and sample some of those fish for B1 health. Giving them data from fish that arrived at the hatchery, as well as natural spawners....and late arrivals DEC continues to investigate issues with Steelhead and Salmon. As far as other tribs.....Genny has lots of fish, Oswego is loaded, The Iron has fish....and OO is getting fish, but very low water conditions hinder the western basin watersheds. Back to my first paragraph. I've really only witnessed Salmon nesting in the DSR on years of late runs. So the other condition one has to include is that Salmon may be spawning at river mouths, or much farther down river then normal as they are in prime nesting condition arriving this late. I saw dozens of pairs of salmon nesting yesterday less then a mile and a half from the lake. If they are...many fishermen will never see these fish.

Well Gill I stood on the banks of the Genny yesterday and watched all kinds of fish roll from the flats to the falls....and like I said I have friends who have been having double digit days trolling the river below the wading area. Ron at Orleans Outdoors at the Oak is noting fair to good numbers of fish at the Dam, and good numbers below the wading area working their way up. anybody that knows Ron well...he's always careful not to over estimate the fishing situation...he errors on the lower side. It's Oct 9.....let's give it a few weeks to see what transpires. Canada tribs were good, had two very good angler buddies on the North shore who fished all the ribbons East of Toronto state the run was good. Are they late...compared to the past few years yeah...compared to long term no way. I never used to fish salmon until Oct. into early Nov. I'm rolling my eyes...I heard for a few years people complaining that DEC was inducing early runs of fish into warm water cause they took eggs from early stage fish...now I'm reading people are upset that they are only taking eggs from later run fish. When in reality, if you want the best situation for spawning King fish, you want them coming now. The water is below 60, and they aren't going to die due to the water being too warm before they take care of business. If you think about it....King lovers should be rejoicing the fish are coming in late. DEC can't take eggs until water temps fall below 60. For several years that was at earliest this week. They'll begin their egg take this year on Monday or Tuesday.

Gill your math is great if the numbers in your equation are correct. Less then 10% of the stocked and wild fish are making it to adult sexually mature stage. Actually a lower number has been the norm since the start of this whole fishery. When it comes to numbers they HAVE to be accurate. We wouldn't have any kind of predator to prey imbalance as people are wary of if we had those numbers of salmon in LO. It's just not the case. Of the three year classes take the 2.1M that goes it...for round numbers sake let's say 10 M fry hatched in all the lake....that's 12 million salmon in one year class. That's 1.2m if 10 % survived, and 600K at best if the normal 5% survived. it's highly conceivable that the number is much closer to 5%....discount the YOY cause nobody is counting them as a target, now you are probably dealing with 1.2 M total 2/3 YO targets in the entire lake. Mix in harvest by lake and trib anglers, fish that die who are handled and released, death by lamprey....cannibalism, add in two outrageous winters that may have killed many, toxic alewives and the number is even lower. My point is, we all have to have a realistic understanding of the true numbers we are dealing with. Not what got stocked or what hatched. That's at the starting line....a fraction of them make it to the finish line.... and then Gill you said it best.....don't sell the boat and the tackle, we've had two really bad hands,(winters)that we'd all fold in high stakes poker.....Got to hang in there. And play the next hand. Not to be too light hearted...but this flashed at me.....much like the cows asking you to eat more chikn'... See a Salmon with a sign painted on it's side...."eat more lake trout"

The "Most" important factor of the Base Flow treaty that went into effect in the Mid 90's was to recreate the natural reproduction of aquatic insect life on the Salmon river. Up to that point only running the river on weekends had all but eliminated billions of natural food snacks for fishes in the system. Today as a true tail water fishery the bug life on the salmon river is second to none. Two weeks ago I was fishing in the middle of one of the greatest most legendary hatches in the history of rivers. The "White Fly hatch" Would never be possible without the base flows. Hey but who cares about some fly hatch. Of the many hatches that now occur on the SR the White Fly in it's size 14 and 12 (us fly swatters will understand this)....in it's nymph stage is like eating a four pound cheese burger chased with ham and a friend egg on top. Wild Trout and Salmon that are successfully hatched in this system by the millions must have these aquatic insects to feed on to even have a chance at becoming par, smolting and trying to leave the watershed into the open lake. DEC and the Feds have been seining the river for over 15 years each May and early June to determine the number of fingerlings that have hatched. We've all seen the large numbers from this effort . Normally anywhere between a 5 to 10 million successful hatched. However that has no baring on how many of those tiny inch long fish survive to the adult stage and return to the river. Yes the clip study produced percentage of Wild VS stocked but that can't estimate how many of all year classes of salmon are actually swimming around as returning adults. I was at the Hatchery yesterday. On the board in the lobby is the egg take from last fall through what was taken this spring. DEC extracted some 4.2 million king salmon eggs. They delivered 2.1 M hatched salmon to the lake either through pens or direct stock. We have known forever that harsh winters slow down the growth of all species in these hatchery's. So in winters like the last two, one could easily debate the size of the fish weren't as hearty as other years. And if you talked to DEC they could have easily held Salmon longer in the Hatchery (and in fact they did...I'll explain). BUT, for the pen programs if they didn't get them out there in April, NONE of those fish would have imprinted from the pens, and then the stakeholders wouldn't have been happy either. My wife Lindsay is a licensed NYS River guide who runs a women's fly fishing seminar on the Salmon River every Spring/summer at the hatchery. This year was May 16 and 17. And all the direct stock fish were being held through that weekend ,....much longer then normal to get them up to size from the worst winter we've had in 100 years. One thing we have to stop assuming is that DEC just grows fish and dumps them in robotically and uncaring or unaware of what the results will be. I have helped or witnessed the seining. The six week program starts up nearest the hatchery and works it's way down river to the estuary with the strategy that the fish are working their way to the lake as they migrate out. And the process is to see how they are making their way. Again what you will see at the SOTL is last years results were spectacular. Might have been, or near a record hatch. WHAT? Ask anybody last year was a horrible year for river anglers targeting salmon. Yet those that came in were obviously very successful. These little fish were everywhere. Early fish....there have always been early fish, even before the treaty. In fact while there were early fish, the heart of the run was Oct. to Nov, and in fact the snagging regs back in the 70's 80's and 90's had the date of snagging out till Nov 15....for a reason. Because there were fish in the system that late. Last year fish came in later , I think the same will happen again. Layman's take on that is when fish are scattered in every corner of the lake from a wild summer of winds current and temp, it's logical it takes them longer to find home. Before the treaty.... river only plumed out into the lake a couple days a week. River bank was nearly dry all summer during the week. Now base flows...depending on weather like the 2.5 inches of rain they had last week, flows increase attract fish in warmer water, OK but it doesn't take many fish to collect 4.2 million eggs. It's highly conceivable that survival of wild and stocked fish aren't surviving as well for probably many reasons. And usually it is "Many" reasons. One would need a root cause analysis....and we'd probably discover many factors. Some controllable ...some not. For instance, we have an overbearing population of Gobies in the lakes AND rivers. They have no problem eating the heck out of a 1 inch salmon. They could be a factor. HOT warm summer and fish arriving early that won't live to spawn ...a factor...but we can't control that. These fish have evolved both stocked and wild. Before clipping I was sure the early runners were wild fish...simply because they are much more adaptable after being born in the rivers environment. I know long winded again....Like it or not, revenue or not...the Salmon River is a natural resource that any and all have the right to enjoy. So a bunch of kids with coolers full of beer and mom and dad and the kids four weekends a summer (that's all there is) have a right to have a day. And not just one day. The treaty has to include others or frankly there would be no treaty ...no treaty no base flow, no food for the baby fish, no wild adult salmon. And on severe drought summers they have canceled releases. The one for two week ago was slated for three full days at 750. They only ran it for two. oh and there is this one other little matter...especially in a hot summer, when people are running a ton of electricity ....Brookfield is a power company they are in business to generate power, to be in business. They move water to create power. If you equate the factors at the time that decisions are made on how to handle each stocking season, you will run into unavoidable circumstances out of your control that makes you...make a different decision. That's man VS nature. The hatchery debate will always come down to MONEY and Government and laws. High hurdle....need a strong intelligent professional lobbying group that is working in Albany every day. Why??? cause you have to get into the brain, heart and wallet of each and every elected official to tip the scales in your favor. Most folks on this board don't have that kind of time, or skill set. You can pay to get those folks.....so all the clubs and pro associations would have to pony up.

Well Rich, the feds have been trying to revive lake trout to native sustainable status in the Great lakes including Ontario since the late 1950's when the Great lakes Fishery Commission got started with the Charter to turn things around from the polluted waste lands that the GL's had become and improve the habitat to where lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon would once again swim and be self sustaining. Obviously that hasn't worked out too well. They loaded the lake in the 70's 80's and 90's with 1.5 mill a year, then started backing them down to 1/2 a Mill, had some hatchery issues where most of the allotment didn't get planted, and then fired up the big numbers again...all the while never having enough measurable success in sustaining wild stocks to end stocking. I guess we are going to hear encouraging news on the latest wild repo results, but who knows if they have found a break through. Personally I've never bad mouthed Lake Trout, they are a beautiful fish, and yes they get big out here. Are they fun to catch trolling...not so much, but if people would pull up in open water and jig for them like the Finger Lakes, you'd have a whole new experience, and they would become a much more targeted species. Setting the hook on a 20 pounder in 100 foot of water on a medium action rod, and you are in for a lot of fun...jus sayin'

Rich I enjoy your thoughts on this forum as well. 1) I was in all those meetings with DEC when they announced the reduction in King Salmon stocking but I'm not sure what they offered up as a place holder. We can get that info from DEC. For what ever reason, I think back then the Steelhead stocking number was around 550K, and the carrot was increasing that number to 750K, because Steelhead have a more diverse diet and it was felt would have less impact on the lower bait fish populations. Maybe Vince or others who were in the room remember better. Like I said we can call Dan Bishop or others and find out. Thing with steelhead and Coho salmon they take up space in a hatchery for 12 to 18 months. 2)USGS and the Great Lakes Fishery Commission are all about native species, and their return as a self sustaining species. I've heard through the grapevine that USGS and DEC have found more wild lake trout in the system this year then ever before. But that's all relative. I don't know what that means until they show the data. The goal is to find a species of LT that thrive in the wild , reproduce naturally, and have a sustainable population. I know they've now found goby's in deeper colder water then what is thought of their normal range, and I'm sure if they swim in front of a LT, they'll get eaten. But the two aren't related. It's all about attaining the feds goal. 3)Bloaters and Ciscos are native species to LO from the White fish family. this again is a USGS program and it's actually an "experiment" to see if they can as well put some in and see if they get natural reproduction. USGS is not intending nor do they have the where-with-all to stock billions of bait fish. This if it ever worked creates more diversity in the forage base. I'm not sure how long the leash is for Dr Jim Johnson and this program. I'm sure USGS offices in all the great lakes is watching this.

Nice then get Steve to buy everybody a brand new hatchery. Last I knew Steve's not the DEC commissioner the NYS finance director or the governor or NYS legislature who probably get to allow Steve to spend his 50 $60 mill but I've know Steve a long time and he can make a strong case if he's got all that cash to wave around. Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

Ahh Come on Full of BS...I do that in my job ...but talking about fishing. BS is what gets us off on dead end road discussions. Gill...the Hatchery at Altmar cost between 10 and $20 m over 30 years ago. That "nut' today is in the neighborhood of $50 to $75M....or more You...I and Steve knows there isn't that kind of money floating around...but Gill here's an idea, we should sponsor a telethon...we have a better shot at raising that kind of money. Those that know me know I don't care to kill trout and salmon, simply because I don't like to eat them. But I do love to fish for them and return my catch, which ultimately and arguably makes me more dangerous to the health of the fishery because it's on me to keep the fish safe if I intend and am fortunate enough to catch several. And I had to learn a lot of good solid release practices over the years to feel confident that the highest percentage of the time I can execute a safe release. Otherwise I shouldn't be fishing if the bigger picture of being a responsible stakeholder to the overall fishery is my goal. And it is. Spoiled!!! I had many fishermen from the west coast that I used to guide and Charter and all told me the same thing as mentioned before....we are spoiled. The GL fisheries are managed much differently then the west coast. They for the most part hate seeing stocked fish put into a still valid wild fishery. And in many places around the US and the world, where habitat is still viable, fishery managers don't stock fish where wild fish either do, of can thrive. The GL is different. We don't have to apologize if we have a sport fishery that provides a lot of action, but we have to also realize we have a "man made fishery" that can't sustain it's self to that world class standard. So just like any business that produces and maintains it's product there are many many factors both "man made" and natural that can topple it over. And like it or not the finger can't be pointed at just one group or entity on the man made side.

Been watching this all from the bleachers. Wind and weather are always a huge factor on the migration and summer movement of especially King Salmon. But so many other factors are involved. As much as it seems there are a lot of fishermen on the lake, it's nothing like 20 years ago. So less anglers, on scattered fish from the conditions harder to locate, but almost every other post is a group having a tough day, while another group had a good day. And good and bad are all relative. I was told a Guy came into the hatchery the other day, landed five mature kings, a 15 pound Atlantic, and a double digit steelhead in four hours of fishing and complained the fishing sucked. Not meaning to take a shot, but at this time of year...I'd clear the pier heads at 4:30 AM, and I'd never pass up 15 to 30 foot of water for the first 2 hours, and then once the sun was high I'd work my way out, but never deeper then 100 foot of water IF I was targeting migrating fish. I walk the Charlotte pier every weekend, and for the past three weeks I've watched salmon after salmon proposing all over the river mouth and along the west wall....and not a single boat in sight...and that's at 9 AM. Expectations: Salmon will turn on an off like a light switch....and it can happen many times during a 24 hour day. But in the fall that light switch on and off cycle is greatly reduced. Most of these fish are no longer taking nourishment. They can't their stomachs have shriveled up as their metabolism has pushed them into seeking a spawning red. Salmon will never lose that aggressive trigger but it's much tougher to trigger it. Case in point one time in a river, I swung a time tested streamer past at least 2-3 hundred fish as they migrated up the Salmon river, and I never had a single take. Not even a turn on my fly. But I've had days where swinging the same streamer, I've hooked several fish who had to choose to come kill it as I use no weight and swim the fly just as a bait fish would present itself. They are one of the most moodiest fish that swims this time of year. Locations to Troll: As successful as the Pen projects have been, it's been known for a long time that some of those pen reared fish do in fact travel back to the Salmon river. But if not there, tributaries with the best out flows to draw them in. Places like Sodus Bay, while you can catch a horde of fish passing through normally isn't the last stop on their migration. So timing is essential. Timing: All up to the fish. Two years with similar weather patterns. We'll see what happens this fall, but last year, I had fresh spawning kings (dozens) in front of me in small tribs throughout Dec. right through Christmas. In my 40 years of doing this...that is the latest I've ever seen fresh salmon in a river ...in those numbers. How was last year's natural spawn in the SR? When you go to the SOTL meeting next spring, you'll be surprised that the natural hatch was near or at record high levels....WHAT? Everybody complained about the Salmon run last year...but obviously fish were there and were very successful at reproducing. Better Fishermen: ...do we have too many tournaments.. I get it ...they are fun, but you attract the very best top of the line anglers both Pro and Rec to these and over a summer 1000's of fish are vacuumed up. Yeah but natural repo, and stocking must be millions of fish out there. I've never heard of survival to adult stage of any of these species greater then 10%. Most time the estimates are half that. There are way less fish out there then most people envision. May seem like a ton, in a normal year, when most of them all species are penned up on the South shore boundaries.... Anybody having trouble catching lake Trout? Sure there are a lot out there, but they are over the same rock year after year no matter what the weather does. They are not a long range migrator. The avg Pacific species including Steelhead travel up to 15,000 miles a year. If they get scattered like I think everybody who has been fishing all over the place and caught them from 50 foot to 600 foot can attest to, it for sure seems like we've lost a lot of fish. Maybe we have, but I would bet that the avg. 5 to 10% survival of adults is pretty much intact. I'll get a lot of push back on this....but I used to run the junk rods...in the finger lakes in the 60's and LO all my life. I believe they kill fish. 600 Coppers and a 5 pound fish, even released what you think is unharmed, has built up more toxins in their body then against a normal rod and mono line. They won't give up no matter what, but they stress themselves to the point of recovery takes too long and they die. Even big fish that are released can be stressed past survival stage on that heavy tackle. A study just arrived from BC from a team of biologists who were capturing and tagging wild steelhead in those famed rivers, and putting homing devices on them. They get them into the bank. The fish would struggle a bit many times bumping their body and head against a rock. But not acting hurt. They swam back in the river after the gps device was attached like nothing happened. Then the biologists started tracking...but many of the fish weren't moving staying in the same place hours after release. WHY??? cause they were dead. And the only thing they could point to were fish that had banged their bodies on the rocks. They did autopsies on the fish and found extensive brain and internal organ damage. So how do you handle a fish once it's on the deck? Or landed along a river bank. These fish swam away as if they had been just released into the wild for the first time....as if nothing happened. There are so many factors in where the fish are, what mood are they in, if being returned, how they survive the encounter with us. After reading this I can here it now this is a catch and kill fishery. I have no issue if you are going to eat the fish. There are many who either don't care to eat them, but enjoy the sport of catching them. We have to be ultra careful and experienced in handling these fish. But with survival rates probably in the norm, and if you kill your limit every time you have the chance ...or every fish you can legally take, we are going to see a reduced population YOY and the fishing will continue to get tougher. Couple that with any other factor, weather, disease, accidents, sub production because of issues, then that reduction in success is accelerated. WELL STOCK MORE!!! Not that easy. Hatchery capacity and space is needed, that's not available. What are you willing to give up?This is NYS now, not Lake trout, or A salmon those are the Feds programs. And there are a lot of other high use in land fisheries in NYS that have the right to be healthy as well and also have high investment returns. BUILD MORE HATCHEYS!!!! Yeah with what money??? State is dead broke and any available funds will be slated for 100's of other programs before this one...even though there is a significant return on the investment. So these are all valid questions and concerns,. .that by now those of us who've been around a long time understand the mountain of red tape to overcome.....So what can be done??? On us....and not to just complain to the DEC, but sharpen your skills, volunteer for programs like Pen programs, come help us with habitat restoration to create more natural repo in some rivers and tribs that actually do produce. Be sound in handling of fish, make good decisions on truly only keeping what you need. Is there a better tasting fish then a spring two three pound Coho? But If I have 10 in the cooler or freezer do I need number 11,12,or 13. All personal choice, but think about your choice for just a sec. before making it. That 3 pounder will be 12 to 15 pounds next time around. As usual...long winded....sorry for that.

Yeah Paul I didn't see the fish so not including it, but DEC and USGS has in their Spring seining looking for wild Chinnies found cross bred par from the SR. Not sure folks understand, Atlantic Salmon either Landlocks or ocean run fish, spawn in the Oct, Nov time frame, even though they ascend rivers as early as May and June. And so do Brown trout spawn in Oct, and Nov. The other thing to think about in the Sheep and Man fertilization VS fish,.....Fish lay and fertilize eggs out side of their bodies, in the river gravel. Just about any fish with the tools to do so can get involved so to speak. Crazy stuff man.

Not trying to start a debate (because it's not debatable) Google the cross breeding of Atlantic Salmon and brown trout and you'll find studies done in Europe , that proves it happens. Funny just discussed this last weekend....And in fact at a presentation up at the Catskill Fly Fishing museum by DEC, they in fact have seen some cross breeding in their studies in the Salmon river. They've netted some hybrid fish. Not a common occurrence by any means but it has happened.

To Chris's post I remember those units. In 1972, I took my meager earnings working at the Woolworth Co. and for my Dad's birthday I bought him a Rivera Solid Steel short Arm Downrigger. We had a 1971 Pen Yan Avenger 22 footer. Tri Hull. I think that boat was the only tri hull boat they ever made, with the Tunnel drive. (We owned many Pen Yan's over the years). These also used to be a Heath kit store on Jefferson Rd in Henrietta (Rochester). Dad and I had bought and built a Depth finder with one of those kits. Reading in magazine in the early 70's we started to understand Salmonids had preferred temperatures. So back to the Heath kit store to purchase their handheld temp gauge. We'd drop the probe over the side, marked the footage on the cable and would pick best temps for these fish. The very first trout or salmon we caught on a downrigger trolling off Rosey's Marsh just West of Braddocks , I had a rod down about 40 feet hoping to catch anything, but targeting brown trout. dad's taking a leak over the side of the boat and the rod pops. I had never seen a rod pop on a rigger before....caught plenty of fish in the spring long lining, but now we had a RELEASE...and Got to Yell...FISH ON! I wanted Dad to get this first fish on his new downrigger, we were puling a yellow Manistee Spoon (remember them?). Dad fumbles to put his short rod away to grab the bucking fishing rod, and he's tight to the fish. Our of the deep green water of the day comes this June colored up Brown trout in that seven eight pound range...I mean this fish was magnificent. The smile on my fathers face was priceless....He swings the fish in...and I KNOCKED IT OFF WITH THE NET!!!!! Oh my GOD I was ready to kill myself....here it was fish number one on the little Blue steel downrigger, and I booted the netting job. I felt about two inches tall....but as my dad always was....he just laughed patted me on the back and we kept fishing.

In the late 60's early 70's my best Buddy Dan and I would go fishing every single day after we delivered over 100 papers a day on our route. Most times we'd hit the Braddocks bay ponds, and especially Russell Station out flow. In 1971, we were tossing Roster Tail spinners in the flow wading in ...in our cloths. We used to just clobber the Silver Bass and White Perch on these spinners. All of a sudden Dan hooks this bright silver fish that explodes out of the water over and over. We never heard our drags on our cheap Zebco reels ever chirp, but his was doing that "Zat Zat Zat" those old reels did with their drags. He beached the fish, about a six seven pound beauty. Of course we knew it was some sort of Salmon but had never seen one before. Turns out it was a beautiful Coho. Mid 70's fishing out of a Classic 21 foot Lyman wood boat on the Flats just east of Oak Orchard, I landed my first King Salmon (24 pounds) on a Sutton 88 spoon. I got my USCG license in Fall of 1980, and guided on the lake through 2000. Late 70's and 80's were wonderful fishing, and then things got interesting and challenging in the Mid to late 90's. I was off to many other adventures in the Salt and fresh water on wonderful bucket list rivers oceans and lakes around North and South America since then. I get to fish on LO once in awhile and have mostly missed the resurgence of the Salmon fishing we've had for the most part in the 2000's. Of all the places I've been fortunate to fish, I can say we still have the greatest fishing in our back year for pure opportunity to catch world class fish 12 months a year.