Gill-T

I have to ask....what is the water temp down that deep in your hole? (insert joke here). Browns like water 48-66 degrees. No sense hitting 130' deep if the fish are not there. Here on Lake Ontario if you want browns, the average target depth is probably 60' in a lake that is as deep as some seas. I would imagine on the edges of the hole, there are some shelves, ledges etc. Contour trolling with a good gps lake map sound like the ticket IMO. Fighting a Brown with all that gear (dipsy, copper etc.) will absolutely kill the fun. A big brown on either mentioned junk set-up will feel like a blob of weeds. On the fingerlakes, fisherman have learned to use Sawbellies (baitfish) with a large egg sinker set up, similar to a Carolina rig, fished on the bottom in the target's preferred temperature range. This would allow you to use light gear, and really target any bottom features that might hold fish.

The problem with officials pre-checking coolers is......the officials. Getting enough "officials" to police the send-off would be a problem. In the Oswego event contestants can leave from two different ports....mayhem to try to run an event like that. I like the idea of "no prefishing 24 hours in advance" because it levels the field. However, I think a lot of teams have fun with the Friday pre-fish events and after all that is what these events are about.....fun.

I am not sure what the argument for culling at Niagara, but NOT Orleans. Water temp is not a consideration during the Orleans. I understand boxes are harder to come by in the Orleans, but that should not matter, you have the choice.....you can always keep the smaller fish. Oswego, and Sodus.....forget it, the water is too warm. Sorry Rod, another culling post.

With Kings still in the water an #8 or even #9 weight might be the way to go. As the kings die off or get spent you can get away with #7, #6, or even #5 weight when targeting browns and steelhead in late October into November. Where you are fishing matters. I would never take my 5# weight to fish the Niagara. The fish get in that heavy current and bye-bye. I would fish the heavier sticks in tight crowded streams to help control fish and not anger fellow anglers. Different manufacturers have different flex in their blanks. A Sage will have a softer backbone than a Thomas and Thomas. How much wind exposure? If you are making long casts in places where the wind can blow like the Cattaurgus, then go heavier. Lots to think about. Best all around to start hitting tribs for trout........a seven weight IMO. And you are correct about it being fun, especially when you catch a fish on one of your own patterns.

For pier fishing Cabela's makes a nice salmon steelhead rod. I have a 10' model that is now 21 years old and still flinging it a country mile. I use 12 lb trilene green Xl with a good duolock swivel. 3/4 oz glow cleos at night, orange jointed rapalas, hot'n'tots, and silver cleos during the day. You can rig another rod for bottom fishing with egg skein or sacks.

contact "steve" on spoonpullers.com. He goes up every year and catches hogs to 14 lbs.

Tim we have been killing them upstream further. Also twelve mile has a ton of fish.

You are not gaining much by increasing the limit to 21" from 18.5". The point is you can't cull even if you choose. By allowing culling, teams will be able to release fish even bigger if a good king bite is on. With only a six fish limit, I could see in certain venues if the bite is happening, teams deciding to throw back 7 Lb kings with the hope for bigger fish. Some events you pray for 18.5" fish, but it would be nice to have a CHOICE.

Correct, and this team did play by the rules regarding their cooler/observer. My point was there are ample ways to cheat without an observer present.

A well known charter captain in Canada was busted just this year putting lead weights in a fish. Unfortunately, money makes people do stupid things. My suggestion for pre-checking boats before leaving the dock has holes in it. Last year at Sodus, some out of state guys a few slips down from us were pre-fishing and keeping their fish in a garbage bag in their car because they said they eat all the fish they catch. Since you could drive your catch to weigh-in there is room for cheating without an observer watching the cooler. I am not sure what the answer is. Getting an observer sucks, but may be the only legit way to conduct the tournament.

We are all conservationists in various degrees. So to have money in these events go towards pen-rearing projects, then we turn around and have to keep 18.5" salmon does not make sense. The Niagara event effects the future King fishery more than any other event because the Niagara Bar is like a rearing ground for a huge percentage of immature salmon (my home port). Culling makes sense.

The observer thing does suck. With today's gas prices, adding $60-$100 of gas money reimbursement that we pay our observers added to the entry fee, slip fee, ice, food, travel costs etc. I am not for increasing the entry fee to what you are proposing Rod. If you want more entrants.....lower it to $200. Maybe, instead of an observer, arrangements can be made by random draw that a representative of team #1 pre-checks team #2's boat and cooler before leaving the dock? You would have to do away with the six-rod rule (ok by me) because you could not inforce it. I would also like to see a "masters" side event or separate tournament (Rochester?) where competitors have to fish for all the major species and weigh the biggest representative of their catch (cooler culling). So the team that puts the biggest combined score for salmon, steelhead, brown, and.....yes lakers. A true testament to overall fishing skill. You would maybe push back weigh-in to 3:30 because of the extra traveling involved to target all species.

I like the current format. Things I would like to see changed is the "no-cull rule" for the Niagara and Orleans Co. legs. The water is cold enough to allow release of fish....period! If you were trying to garner more teams, I would think allowing same day sign-up at the captain's meeting. I know distributing observers in short notice is difficult.....but possible. Charge teams more for the late entrance, less for early entrance.

Got a good tip some kings were in at the dam. With the rain helping the cause I hit the dam with skein and sacks under a bobber. Good numbers of stout kings on the spill-way side of the dam, and also under the tressel bridge hole. Still need some more rain to hide the rocks more, had plenty of kings snap my #20 test around boulders :x . Fun doing battle again. I had not fished the dam in years. Some nice stream bank improvements have happened.

Didn't Lake trout season end today? Rainbow, Brown tournament?

What...no November dates? It is going to be a LONG winter.

Dipsys, At least a #10 weight, and try some dodger or flasher/fly combos

Blue glow Optidodger with an A-Tom-mik hammer fly. Find the 48-55 degree water. Don't be afraid to troll right down the middle of the lake later in the day.

Both teams are legit. Don't count the raiders out...they are an up and coming team with a lot of talent on paper. Bills will go 10-6 was my projection at the start of the season. They may do better based on the Patriots crapping the bed. Bills are a little light in the pants at defensive end, and the running game is a work in progress (Butler was getting blown up all game), but the team has talent at all positions and depth with experience from all the injuries last year. Bills fans are not stupid, they know what a good team looks like. when most pundits picked the Bills to be out of the playoffs, Bills fans dug into their pockets and bought more season tickets than ever before. The heart is back in the team. Thank god.....it took us long enough!!!!!!

This is where Ray will chime in with a lost shower plug blast.

Simple chemistry. Ions flow from an area of greater concentration to an area of less. All freshwater organisms fight to keep their "stuff" in and water out. I don't know how the ion flux would effect weight of a fish over time, but our top Sodus pro/am steelhead weighed over 14 lbs in the boat, only to drop to 13.88 lbs at weigh-in approx. four hours later.

The fingerlakes are calm except during south or north winds.

Red balls of fire salmon eggs on fly hooks.

Create a new fly. How about white over silver with glow beads.

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