Sk8man

Bob, I couldn't tell from the description of your trolling motor whether is was an older one with carb or newer with injectors. MY older 9.9 did the same thing and I added some carburator cleaner and Stabil to the gas and ran it awhile and it has run fine since. I have used regular gas with triple strength marine Stabil (with the 10 percent ethanol gas despite everyones precautionary advice) for years. Les

Good report....kinda wish I hadn't put the boat away so soon this year but the winterization folks at the marina are closing up in a week or so and I didn't want to get caught short. It sure sounds as though the landlocks are really coming on strong in Seneca as there seems to be an abundance at this point of small ones....lets hope they make it into maturity and provide us with some great action...

That is pretty spectacular video. On the downside it sure gives a clear indication of the magnitude of the lamprey problem! I think that given the fish were chasing the SpinDoctor/fly I wonder if shortening up the lead from the doctor to the fly might help by making it more "active" and maybe it even would suggest that slowing and quickening trolling speed routinely might generate some actual hits....very interesting stuff...just some thoughts...that camera is the "nuts" :>)

Jack you have a PM

Earl Holdren's book was my "bible" starting out way back when and another good one was written by my (now departed) good buddy Scott Sampson an accomplished outdoors writer and one of my close fishing pals. If you can find it it is worth the reading. It is entitled: "GOOD FISHING in the Finger Lakes Region and Western New York" published in 2003 by Sanders Fishing Guides.

No quick or easy answer to that question....depends on the particular LAKE and the WEATHER for that particular year. The main Finger Lakes may or may NOT freeze up on a given winter. Seneca for example has only totally frozen a couple times in over a hundred years. I used to fish it all year long including Jan and Feb sometimes crunching through the ice in the canal with my little 13 ft. Whaler (not highly recommended) :>) The past couple years and last year in particular were warmer than others and the ice didn't form real well on many places. Honeoye usually freezes faster than Canadice and Hemlock because it is very shallow (approx. 30 ft max depth) and if the others are frozen too it may warm faster too in a given year. If it is a "normal year (whatever that means) ice out usually is sometime in mid to late March into April on Hemlock and Canadice.

You'll get there.....patience is a virtue :>) On the plus side of things is that the folks here are saving you YEARS and YEARS of time (and I'm not exaggerating) by providing valuable info which was not available to many of us before this site and the age of computers. Additionally, the "old timers" usually did not share any "secrets" in the old days with the exceptions of lvery close fishing pals or family. I even knew of a father/son whose rivalry was such that they didn't even tell each other what they werr achieving success with :>). Have fun and enjoy yourself. Les

I'm already planning my next years derby strategies while I'm preparing for (potential) ice fishing :>0 We had a good year too and I'm already psyched for next year and just putting the boat away so what will "fishing fever" be like in February? pretty scary :>)

I've used 12 pound mono on all my downriggers for over 40 years including on lake Ontario (until the fleas last few years) and I use a 10 pound fluro leader about 6 or 7 ft long (any longer and you have trouble with the swivel at the tip of the rod when reeling in a good fish in netting the fish. I use a small black barrel swivel at one end of the fluro leader and a good quality small single ring (welded) ball bearing swivel at the other end. Don't use split ring swivels as the line can get caught in the depression in them and sever your line with a good fish. The distance you run from the downrigger ball is a "trial and error" process at best. Much depends on what particular lure you are using (e.g. flutter spoon (sizes/weight matter) or stick baits (jointed rapalas are less sensitive to higher speed and work better on turns and closer to the boat). Lakers will USUALLY tolerate lures closer to the ball than rainbows,browns or landlocks. Browns are also reputed to be more sensitive to lure size (smaller the better most of the season) and smaller line diameters too maybe because lighter lines offer less resisteance in the water and may increase action of the lures but they also often like slower speeds. General rule: start out with 20 ft. and increase in ten ft. intervals as you change lures if not successful. For rainbows, landlocks and browns 40-150 or 200ft back especially in shallower water. Deeper the water generally the closer you can run your lures especially for lakers.....I have had success oon lakers and large salmon 4 ft from the ball (they may see it as a "connected" relationship) Hope this helps. Les

Thanks Flyrod2.

Well Kev.....how did ya do? I cleaned up the boat today to put it away early this year because I lost my inside storage for the first time in ten years becaue the place was sold....really sucks because I love to fish at this time of the year when everyone else is hunting :>) Les

Another option for running leadcores and dipseys is off outriggers using shower curtain hook releases as well as Blacks at the ends. I've run three off each side in the past along with the regular downriggers and copper or stainless wire down the middle and deep.

We were out on Sunday Bruce (Perch fishing though:>) and we launched at the north end and it was "doable" in my buddy's 19 ft. Penn Yan with outdrive but still low compared with most years so you have to be a bit more careful than usual. There seems to be either a shallow point or an obstruction of some sort on the southeast end of the ramp so I'd stay in the middle all the way from the ramp through the channel. I haven't been to the Woodville launch in a couple weeks but when I was last there it was not doable for my 18 ft Whaler (with outboard) and I would imagine it is not much improved at this point. Les

Iron Duke - Thanks for the pic and the info. Les

Good going on getting out there in that weather. We were there too but fishing for other species this time. Nothing like fishing in the wind and snow...sorts out the hard core dudes :>) I am curious though... what does that IronDuke Fly look like (if its not top secret info :>)?

Good luck with it! Remember during the all cursing and struggling you'll be doing out there....it's supposed to be FUN! :>)

I just happened to think ....you'll also have be be real careful when you are retrieving the ball (e.g. especially during rough waves) not to bang into the transducer.

Given that you have an 18 inch boom and don't have options for placement you will need to be careful regarding the transducer as they can be damaged pretty easily by being banged with the ball so I wouldn't let it "hang" in the water near the transom for any reason when there is wave action etc. The 2- 2 1/2 lures (light weight flutter spoons?) are the right size to start with.. . for starters I'd use them at the end of a good (fairly small) ball bearing swivel and run the line out about 30-40 ft to start experimenting. Sometimes the lakers hit the lure run right up close to the ball (3-6 ft) especially down deep. Rainbows often respond better to longer lengths (e.g. 75 ft or more). I'd get used to things as simple as possible at first until you get the hang of it and then progress to dodgers/fly or SpinDoctors, the use of sliders etc.

The bracket LOOKS good....just make sure the angle of the face of it clears everything (eg. with your rods actually IN the rod holders and the holders themselves etc. as well as the transom. Try to locate it as far as possible from the motor taking into consideration where you will be sitting. It wouldn't make much difference on a big boat but on your 12 footer balance is important (when you get the 10 lb weight on etc.). Re: lure speed vs. speed of the boat: If you are racing - speed of the boat is of concern....you on the other hand are concerned with LURE PRESENTATION to catch fish. That is why I said that the readings on the speed indicator are RELATIVE because you are trying to assess specifically what the CHANGES in boat speed do to the LURE rather than what the boat is doing.....the boat is basically a PLATFORM from which you fish in places you can't access from shore...it is a TOOL as are the items you choose to use to catch the fish. All these things can distract you from your main purpose if you lose your focus. A lot of people out there spend their time totally consumed with the technology and looking at the fish finder screen and then wonder why they aren't catching fish. Spend your time assessing the changes in your behavior and what impact it has on your success rate and you will be successful regardless of the particular "toys" you are using to get the fish.

I know this may sound a bit strange but....in a sense it doesn't make any difference what kind of trolling speed indicator you use if it is a surface oriented one (like the Luhr Jensen or one that uses an impeller to measure the water ( spinning the impeller). The speed is RELATIVE to the boat itself and not your LURE per se. That is why I suggested that you check your lure action at the surface so that you will have SOME idea of the particular action at the speed that is indicated on the speed indicator .What IS important is that you learn what speed READINGS on whatever indicator you use seem to catch the species of fish you seek. I used to keep a small piece of tape handy when I used that type of indicator in the old days and when I caught a trout I'd place the thin piece of colored tape at the mark I caught the fish and return to that tape mark (because you sometimes forget the exact one on the indicator) and I varied the color tape with the species that way thenext time out I started at those points andthen re-established new onesas needed. The "expensive" speed indicators measure speed at the BALL (or lure) and that is a whole different process.

The downrigger ball MAY show up on the depth finder. It depends on where your downrigger is LOCATED onthe boat with respect to the transducer location, the specific cone angle of your transducer, your boat speed and the speed at the ball (which may be affected by currents), whether you are turning away from or toward the transducer. If it shows up on your depth finder (i.e. is in the cone angle) it will probably show as a straight line (of sorts) and possibly a little "wavy". Unless you run a real expensive unit this will be about it and it is an "approximation" of the depth your ball is running at (may be a foot or two off) and usually your lure does not show up and depending on speed and whether you are turning etc. the lure may be up dpwn or to the side of the line you see (theball) . Fish chasing the lure or coming up or down (moving) may show as "streaks" or lines or even as fish icons on some units.

Trolling speed is RELATIVE to the particular boat you are in, current, and the particular instrument you use to measure it. Two boats trolling side by side may have two different readings depending on these and other factors. The range you suggested is about right for lakers and the upper end of it applies to rainbows as well. You also need to vary your speed with the lures and other equipment used (e.g. flutter spoons, stick baits or dogers/fly or Spin Doctors all may have different optimal speeds). I usually run whatever I'm using at the boat level and OBSERVE it to see ifit is running OK. It still may be somewhat different at depth because of currents etc. The reason I lost the dodger/fly described earlier is that on a TURN it got twisted up in the 18 inch release leader and whenI pulled up on the downrigger rod the line which was wrapped around it the leader snapped.

Try the 10 lb and see what you think.....The main object is to get down to where you want to be...if it exerts too much tension go to a smaller weight (your preference) but remember that the higher your trolling speed and the lighter the ball your lure will be rising at an angle and will not be at the depth indicated on your downriggers depth meter. The lighter the ball and more extreme the angle (and higher your speed) the further off the actual depth of the lure will be. Heavier weight tends to keep the lure straighter down and hence more closely aligned with the reading on your downrigger. Re: the Cannon release. When I tried the Cannon release on Lake Ontario some time ago I used a large dodger and fly (fishing for slamon) and the dodger got twisted around that 18 inch leader and I lost the dodger and fly (I was running close to the ball which is common). If you are goijng touse dodger/fly or SpinDoctors/fly etc. I would not suggest using one.

As far as the Black release vs. the others......in my view there is no comparison as far as the control over the tension for varying conditions. As I mentioned before they make several models of them here is the one that I think is best for all around use (outriggers and downriggers) http://www.basspro.com/Black-39;s-Outri ... LL_PRODUCT I have modified a couple so that I can use them on other peoples boats when I fish with them using their downriggers without any installation concerns....just can snap them on their existing snap where the ball goes and then hook the ball on the bottom of the release ( have added a heavy duty downrigger snap to the bottom of them). Again, it is a PREFERENCE issue and everyone has their own views on the best release method. All I am saying is that after many years of experimentation with nearly all the other releases and my homemade versions as well I always return to the Black releases for my downriggers and my outriggers. Les

4 pounds will be too light....the wire will arch back too far (too great an angle) to have any idea of where your lure is at ....essentially defeating the purpose of the downrigger itself. The best selection would be 7or 8 pounds in my experience for your situation.....for larger boats 10-12 pounds seems the usual weight used. I use 8 pounders most of the time but have the heavier ones for ocassional very deep trolling for lakers in derbies (e.g. 150-200ft) used on limited basis. Trolliing for rainbows, browns and landlocks it usually isn't necessary or desired to go below 100ft so the smaller weights suffice. This may be especially true for lakes like Canadice and Hemlock as they are small lakes and pretty protected from large waves unlike Seneca, Cayuga and Lake Ontario etc. so you need less weight than one those lakes.