Sk8man

Over the years I have been on the lake three times when they had hydro races and I can tell you it is no fun for fishermen. I launched at Sampson thinking I might avoid the whole thing and the noise and "vibrations" in the water are unreal. The fish totally turned off despite the distance from the boats.... the noise is VERY loud even miles away....it is not even worth going out... Sk8man

You'll never be sorry you took the time to do it right.....I introduced my son to Seneca at 2 years and he is now 33 and we have fished the entire time together... trout/salmon derbys, ice fishing, bullheads, crappies and all the boat stuff and he is now even more hard core than me (if thats possible). Sk8man

I used to have them attach to the transom my 13 ft Boston whaler in the winter on Seneca Lake,,,,,,huge ones. The only reason I knew they were there is that they were causing a disruption on my depthfinder....man was I surprised when I saw what was causing the commotion! :>)

We fishermen are a bunch of "oddballs"....eccentric as hell and each loving our own eccentricities :>) I've fished the Finger Lakes and surrounding streams for 63 years of my 67 years on this planet. Some of my earlier years were spent with some of the most knowledgable fishermen in the area (at the time anyway)...some of whom wrote articles and books on the subject (e.g. Scott Sampson). Some of them openly shared "secrets" while others kept their knowledge to themselves. The most extreme was a father and son I knew very well that kept their spots from each other as well as their techniques... even during the Seneca Lake Trout Derby they wouldn't divulve info to each other....unreal! Most fishermen are competitive to some degree but also generous and concerned about keeping the sport of fishing "alive". The best way to do this is to try to generate interest and participation on a large scale (e.g. such as encouraging others to buy licenses, having fishing derbies, opening up access, taking novices out to experience to joys and tribulations of fishing for the first time etc., and hopefully the excitement of catching a fightng fish). Over the years I've caught thousands of fish of all sizes and species from boats, streams the ice, ponds and you name it.. but I still remember with total clarity my first fish which I caught in the Yacht Club bay on Seneca Lake with my now departed dad ....a 12 inch smallmouth bass. The point here is that it is the SHARING of experience of fishing that is the really important part of the sport. The LOU site and others like it are very important avenues of sharing for those participating, those wishing to participate. folks that want to participate more fully, and probably others that are unable to participate, but can share the joy in the virtual world through words and photos(e.g. those confined by various disabilities etc.). I applaude all of you who openly share information with your fellow fishermen and encourage those folks who don't do so to entertain the thought that like money and possessions "You can't take it with you". Good luck to all my fellow fishermen out there and may LOU live on forever :>)

I've had real good success realeasing fish for over 40 years and all I do is use needle nose pliers and grab the stainless single steel hooks by the shank turning it upside down (hook pointed downward) while in the fishes mouth and shake them off carefully. Never have to touch them or handle them in any way and that is critical for rainbows and steelies especially. Deep lakers have to be handles a bit differently coming up from the depths though.... I often puncture the air bladder slightly with the point of my filet knife and slowly return them to the water. Fish biologists have indicated that the bladders repair themselves quickly (tiny hole) with mucus and then reheal.

Hey Kev....way to go! Sorry to hear about Bretts downrigger. My last time out on Canandaigua I contributed a $300 camera,bag, and extra chips at the launch ramp somehow (possbly taken from the boat while I got my vehicle/trailer as I was alone)..looked later but nobody turned iit in etc. Back in my parents day it would have been turned in for sure but nowadays many folks are opportunists and haven't been brought up with the same ethics. Too bad the timing wasn't there for that fish at derby time Kev :>) Maybe next year though....kinda like deer hunting I guess ...you see them all over until opening day then they disappear :>) Hope to catch you folks at one of the launch ramps soon. Les

Good going Kev. Hope to get up there soon. (Les)

Whats the deal on the Red Cross Derby? This is the first I've heard of it.....unless it is perhaps held when in previous years I've been on vacation at the Cape in July...

Good going to anyone who caught any decent fish during the derby (trolling at least :>) I have fished Seneca for over 50 years and this was the toughest fishing other than during the 1970's when the lampreys were very active and it was usually 3 or 4 hours between fish. My son and I tried about every technique other than pulling copper and still fishing and only came up with 3 fish during the derby. We changed out over 200 lures all sizes, small and large dipseys, lead core, downriggers, top lines on outriggers, dodgers, spin doctors, etc. I ran three rigs (one with jug way behind the boat) in every depth possible and only marked a very ocassional fish (all between 24 and 48 feet down over a variety of depths)and a few small pods of bait during the two days of fishing (we opted to stay home the third day because of a broken toe on my son the second day). We fished 12 hours each day too. In short to sum things up for us "the derby sucked ". On a more positive note it was great to be "hard at work" fishing with my best fishing partner....my kid. Best of luck to all you guys in the upcoming weeks :>)

If you are set on fishing Canandaigua I would suggest trying the south end on the east side and head northwest on an angle. Start from the white rock area on the east iideand go toward Bristol Harbor condos pulling rigs. Try one rig real deep and the other running up towards the top until you hit something. Keep adjusting your rigs up and down a little along the way. Try SMALL sutton lures on at least one of the rigs. Mix them on the other. Keep varying your trolling speed from 1.9 to 2.7 or 2.8. When you reach the Notre dame retreat house (can see cross on it from lake) turn around and head back toward south east and hgead for the Christian camp on the east side (just south of Pelican Point Marina). This should put you into fish at some point. Canandaigua Lake is somewhat tougher to fish ion the early spring and late Fall for some reason. This has been true for me for over 40 years and I live here :>) Te alternative: fish Seneca instead it is much more active right now.

Black releases are definitely the way to go Ive been using them for over 30 years on downriggers and outriggers and I've tried just about everything else experimenting and nothing touches them especially for the money.

Sorry about the double posting fellas :>)

Good going Kev. I started taking my son Mark with me at age 2 1/2 both in the boat and ice fishing (shorter times :>) and he and are are still fishing partners. I tried with my daughters and everything was fine until Middle School when they discovered boys :>) Good luck to you and your dad in the upcoming Derby. Hope to see you out there. Les

The SethGreen rig these days (He used it in the late 1800's) refers mainly to a technique which also may be called a "rig" or "thermocline rig". A usual setup now consists of a main line - most often wire (e.g. 7 strand stainless steel) used on a heavy duty fiberglass rod (with roller tip and perhaps guides) with a large capacity reel (like the Penn 309 or Penn 49 perhaps). About a hundred or more yards of wire is used for the main line. To this main line a "rig line" (can be heavy mono (e.g 30lb or so or braided Dacron etc) is attached often using bead chain swivels interspersed at intervals (which vary according to preference). The first bead chain swivel is hooked to the main line by using a small diameter steel sleeve (like those used in making various tackle using wire). This is used to attach the "rig line" which may be for discussion purposes 30 lb test mono cut into the desired number of sections spaced acording to preference (e.g. 12-25 ft. apart). Much of the time I use 12 ft. and tie 10 of them together which allows me the option of using 12, 24. or 36 ft. spaced intervals for my lures (depending on depth of water intended to fish). Each of the remaining mono sections of the rig line are tied together to each bead chain. At the bottom end I use a large three way swivel to which a large 32 oz. sinker (can vary weight according to conditions or preference) is attached to the bottom connector and the middle connector I attach a leader (usually 12 lb test mono) which has a spring clip at one end and a ball bearing swivel at the other. The sinker has a "dropper line" attached to it of 17 lb mono (lower lb test than rig line in case it gets snagged on bottom... will break first). The dropper line should be about 18-24 inches long). In the old days you were allowed 15 hook points per rod so many folks changed over from trables to single hooks and ran up to 15 lures per rod but in recent years the law was changed such that a total of only 5 leaders may be used per rod (two rods per person) regardlessw of number of hook points. This brings us to the leaders and lures....I use 5 sections of 12 lb mono cut into different lengths (12-30 ft) and some the same length (e.g. 15 ft). I have also used a longer leader on the very top line up to 60 ft long for rainbow trout and browns in the past. At one end of the 12 lb test mono a spring clip is attached and to the other a high quality ball bearing swivel snap is used to attach the lure. There are many other ways of setting up though such as large wooden or metal reels fixed to a base to which wire or dacron or toher braided alternatives are used but the heavy duty boat rod and reel is most common. Pulling Copper: Very many methods and techniques exist for this. In the old days they used a hand wound wooden device which had handles that swiveled as you wound it up. Up to 600 ft of single strand copper wire was usually used on it varying in diameter but 30 lb test or more was common . On the business end of the wire you tied a heavy spoon (usually a pfleuger #4 or #5 or a barracuda spoon) or a flatfish or twin minnow on a short leader. Sometimes monel wire was used but it is more prone to kinking) In more recent times other methods have been used at the "reel" end of the wire including the traditional "Victrola rig" which is basically a box with a spring loaded set of gears (originally from the old victrola record players) which are under constant tension such that when the line is played out the spring is tightening itself so that when you release the line at you hand it retracts 'automatically". There have also been motorized versions of the victrola box. Another similar item in principle is the A&S automatic reel which was a much smaller and lighter version of the spring wound principle in a reel. The key to "jerking copper" is not just the equipment it is 85 percent technique in "jerking" the wire by hand....the rhythm etc. Another important thing is to wear either leather gloves or use just the cut off index finge and thumb of the leather glove to protect your fingers as they can be severely cut (or even amputated) by snags on bottom or large fish. I hope this helps and at least serves as a starting point for you. Sk8man

The SethGreen rig these days (He used it in the late 1800's) refers mainly to a technique which also may be called a "rig" or "thermocline rig". A usual setup now consists of a main line - most often wire (e.g. 7 strand stainless steel) used on a heavy duty fiberglass rod (with roller tip and perhaps guides) with a large capacity reel (like the Penn 309 or Penn 49 perhaps). About a hundred or more yards of wire is used for the main line. To this main line a "rig line" (can be heavy mono (e.g 30lb or so or braided Dacron etc) is attached often using bead chain swivels interspersed at intervals (which vary according to preference). The first bead chain swivel is hooked to the main line by using a small diameter steel sleeve (like those used in making various tackle using wire). This is used to attach the "rig line" which may be for discussion purposes 30 lb test mono cut into the desired number of sections spaced acording to preference (e.g. 12-25 ft. apart). Much of the time I use 12 ft. and tie 10 of them together which allows me the option of using 12, 24. or 36 ft. spaced intervals for my lures (depending on depth of water intended to fish). Each of the remaining mono sections of the rig line are tied together to each bead chain. At the bottom end I use a large three way swivel to which a large 32 oz. sinker (can vary weight according to conditions or preference) is attached to the bottom connector and the middle connector I attach a leader (usually 12 lb test mono) which has a spring clip at one end and a ball bearing swivel at the other. The sinker has a "dropper line" attached to it of 17 lb mono (lower lb test than rig line in case it gets snagged on bottom... will break first). The dropper line should be about 18-24 inches long). In the old days you were allowed 15 hook points per rod so many folks changed over from trables to single hooks and ran up to 15 lures per rod but in recent years the law was changed such that a total of only 5 leaders may be used per rod (two rods per person) regardless of number of hook points. This brings us to the leaders and lures....I use 5 sections of 12 lb mono cut into different lengths (12-30 ft) and some the same length (e.g. 15 ft). I have also used a longer leader on the very top line up to 60 ft long for rainbow trout and browns in the past. At one end of the 12 lb test mono a spring clip is attached and to the other a high quality ball bearing swivel snap is used to attach the lure. The leaders may be kept separate in a variety of ways. I use pieces of styrofoam insulation cut into usably small rectangles to which I insert the spring clip into a slot I cut into the styrofoam and wind up the leaders on them. There are many other ways of setting up though such as large wooden or metal reels fixed to a base to which wire or dacron or toher braided alternatives are used but the heavy duty boat rod and reel is most common. Pulling Copper: Very many methods and techniques exist for this. In the old days they used a hand wound wooden device which had handles that swiveled as you wound it up. Up to 600 ft of single strand copper wire was usually used on it varying in diameter but 30 lb test or more was common . On the business end of the wire you tied a heavy spoon (usually a pfleuger #4 or #5 or a barracuda spoon) or else a flatfish or twin minnow on a short leader. Sometimes monel wire was used but it is more prone to kinking) In more recent times other methods have been used at the "reel" end of the wire including the traditional "victrola rig" which is basically a box with a spring loaded set of gears (originally from the old victrola record players) which are under constant tension such that when the line is played out the spring is tightening itself so that when you release the line at you hand it retracts 'automatically". There have also been motorized versions of the victrola box. Another similar item in principle is the A&S automatic reel which was a much smaller and lighter version of the spring wound principle in a reel. The key to "jerking copper" is not just the equipment it is 85 percent technique in "jerking" the wire by hand....the rhythm etc. Another important thing is to wear either leather gloves or use just the cut off index finger and thumb of the leather glove to protect your fingers as they can be severely cut (or even amputated) by snags on bottom or large fish. I hope this helps and at least serves as a starting point for you. Sk8man

I checked out the north end of Canandaigua Lake this afternoon at the launch ramp and at the pier. The water level is about 8 inches from the top of the docks at the ramp and at the pier some of the boat houses in the interior section have water going into them through their doors and floors. There is all sorts of debris floating in the lake presenting major hazzards to anyone entertaining the thought of going out there. The water is also quite muddy for as far as the eye can see. If the rain keeps up the parking lot at the north end launch ramp will be under water too as the pond there is very flooded. The permanent docks at Seager Marine are totally under water as is the stone barrier in the channel near there. Sk8man

How did you hook up the air hose to the fish? Nice one Mr. Bob ! Sk8man

We got out early (5 AM) and fished mid section of lake until noon. Caught 5 lakers ranging from 3- 5 pounds on rigs and each was about 70 ft down over 100-150 ft of water. Also caught 2 rainbows 3 and 4 pounders (each 65 ft. down over about 100 ft.). The biggest surprise was a 5 pound smallmouth that hit a sutton 44 on the rig and put up a better fight than all the other fish together and it was down 80 ft. over 150 ft.:>) Sk8man

I was the second B in the challenge and Admiral Byrd summed it up pretty good. I'm taking my son out tomorrow morning hoping for a repeat. Hopefully running 4 rods instead of two will be an advantage and also having someone to steer the boat in the wind might help too :>) I noticed that the Admiral failed to mention the tangled rigs and the boats circling while pulling in the fish:>) Sk8man

Name: Sk8man Location:Canandaigua NY Home Port:Pelican Point Marina Boat Name/Type:"White Porcupine" 18 ft. Boston Whaler (Ventura model) with Merc 135 Optimax and 9.9 kicker I fish for: recreation ================== I'm new to LOU but not to fishing in the Finger Lakes/Lake Ontario. I registered after my buddy Bob finally pestered me enough to check out the site Some of the names on here (boats etc.) are familiar and I've probably talked with a bunch of you at the various launchramps around the area over the past 50 years or so. Most recently I've swapped ideas with Kevin of the Blue Ghost for example :>) WTG at the north end of Canandaigua by the way! I was at the wrong end of the lake that day....I think I might have heard someone say (as I left the ramp) "You should have been here yesterday" :>) Keep your lines tight and GL to all.