Sk8man

Good going on getting out there in that weather. We were there too but fishing for other species this time. Nothing like fishing in the wind and snow...sorts out the hard core dudes :>) I am curious though... what does that IronDuke Fly look like (if its not top secret info :>)?

Good luck with it! Remember during the all cursing and struggling you'll be doing out there....it's supposed to be FUN! :>)

I just happened to think ....you'll also have be be real careful when you are retrieving the ball (e.g. especially during rough waves) not to bang into the transducer.

Given that you have an 18 inch boom and don't have options for placement you will need to be careful regarding the transducer as they can be damaged pretty easily by being banged with the ball so I wouldn't let it "hang" in the water near the transom for any reason when there is wave action etc. The 2- 2 1/2 lures (light weight flutter spoons?) are the right size to start with.. . for starters I'd use them at the end of a good (fairly small) ball bearing swivel and run the line out about 30-40 ft to start experimenting. Sometimes the lakers hit the lure run right up close to the ball (3-6 ft) especially down deep. Rainbows often respond better to longer lengths (e.g. 75 ft or more). I'd get used to things as simple as possible at first until you get the hang of it and then progress to dodgers/fly or SpinDoctors, the use of sliders etc.

The bracket LOOKS good....just make sure the angle of the face of it clears everything (eg. with your rods actually IN the rod holders and the holders themselves etc. as well as the transom. Try to locate it as far as possible from the motor taking into consideration where you will be sitting. It wouldn't make much difference on a big boat but on your 12 footer balance is important (when you get the 10 lb weight on etc.). Re: lure speed vs. speed of the boat: If you are racing - speed of the boat is of concern....you on the other hand are concerned with LURE PRESENTATION to catch fish. That is why I said that the readings on the speed indicator are RELATIVE because you are trying to assess specifically what the CHANGES in boat speed do to the LURE rather than what the boat is doing.....the boat is basically a PLATFORM from which you fish in places you can't access from shore...it is a TOOL as are the items you choose to use to catch the fish. All these things can distract you from your main purpose if you lose your focus. A lot of people out there spend their time totally consumed with the technology and looking at the fish finder screen and then wonder why they aren't catching fish. Spend your time assessing the changes in your behavior and what impact it has on your success rate and you will be successful regardless of the particular "toys" you are using to get the fish.

I know this may sound a bit strange but....in a sense it doesn't make any difference what kind of trolling speed indicator you use if it is a surface oriented one (like the Luhr Jensen or one that uses an impeller to measure the water ( spinning the impeller). The speed is RELATIVE to the boat itself and not your LURE per se. That is why I suggested that you check your lure action at the surface so that you will have SOME idea of the particular action at the speed that is indicated on the speed indicator .What IS important is that you learn what speed READINGS on whatever indicator you use seem to catch the species of fish you seek. I used to keep a small piece of tape handy when I used that type of indicator in the old days and when I caught a trout I'd place the thin piece of colored tape at the mark I caught the fish and return to that tape mark (because you sometimes forget the exact one on the indicator) and I varied the color tape with the species that way thenext time out I started at those points andthen re-established new onesas needed. The "expensive" speed indicators measure speed at the BALL (or lure) and that is a whole different process.

The downrigger ball MAY show up on the depth finder. It depends on where your downrigger is LOCATED onthe boat with respect to the transducer location, the specific cone angle of your transducer, your boat speed and the speed at the ball (which may be affected by currents), whether you are turning away from or toward the transducer. If it shows up on your depth finder (i.e. is in the cone angle) it will probably show as a straight line (of sorts) and possibly a little "wavy". Unless you run a real expensive unit this will be about it and it is an "approximation" of the depth your ball is running at (may be a foot or two off) and usually your lure does not show up and depending on speed and whether you are turning etc. the lure may be up dpwn or to the side of the line you see (theball) . Fish chasing the lure or coming up or down (moving) may show as "streaks" or lines or even as fish icons on some units.

Trolling speed is RELATIVE to the particular boat you are in, current, and the particular instrument you use to measure it. Two boats trolling side by side may have two different readings depending on these and other factors. The range you suggested is about right for lakers and the upper end of it applies to rainbows as well. You also need to vary your speed with the lures and other equipment used (e.g. flutter spoons, stick baits or dogers/fly or Spin Doctors all may have different optimal speeds). I usually run whatever I'm using at the boat level and OBSERVE it to see ifit is running OK. It still may be somewhat different at depth because of currents etc. The reason I lost the dodger/fly described earlier is that on a TURN it got twisted up in the 18 inch release leader and whenI pulled up on the downrigger rod the line which was wrapped around it the leader snapped.

Try the 10 lb and see what you think.....The main object is to get down to where you want to be...if it exerts too much tension go to a smaller weight (your preference) but remember that the higher your trolling speed and the lighter the ball your lure will be rising at an angle and will not be at the depth indicated on your downriggers depth meter. The lighter the ball and more extreme the angle (and higher your speed) the further off the actual depth of the lure will be. Heavier weight tends to keep the lure straighter down and hence more closely aligned with the reading on your downrigger. Re: the Cannon release. When I tried the Cannon release on Lake Ontario some time ago I used a large dodger and fly (fishing for slamon) and the dodger got twisted around that 18 inch leader and I lost the dodger and fly (I was running close to the ball which is common). If you are goijng touse dodger/fly or SpinDoctors/fly etc. I would not suggest using one.

As far as the Black release vs. the others......in my view there is no comparison as far as the control over the tension for varying conditions. As I mentioned before they make several models of them here is the one that I think is best for all around use (outriggers and downriggers) http://www.basspro.com/Black-39;s-Outri ... LL_PRODUCT I have modified a couple so that I can use them on other peoples boats when I fish with them using their downriggers without any installation concerns....just can snap them on their existing snap where the ball goes and then hook the ball on the bottom of the release ( have added a heavy duty downrigger snap to the bottom of them). Again, it is a PREFERENCE issue and everyone has their own views on the best release method. All I am saying is that after many years of experimentation with nearly all the other releases and my homemade versions as well I always return to the Black releases for my downriggers and my outriggers. Les

4 pounds will be too light....the wire will arch back too far (too great an angle) to have any idea of where your lure is at ....essentially defeating the purpose of the downrigger itself. The best selection would be 7or 8 pounds in my experience for your situation.....for larger boats 10-12 pounds seems the usual weight used. I use 8 pounders most of the time but have the heavier ones for ocassional very deep trolling for lakers in derbies (e.g. 150-200ft) used on limited basis. Trolliing for rainbows, browns and landlocks it usually isn't necessary or desired to go below 100ft so the smaller weights suffice. This may be especially true for lakes like Canadice and Hemlock as they are small lakes and pretty protected from large waves unlike Seneca, Cayuga and Lake Ontario etc. so you need less weight than one those lakes.

If you want a CHEAP cannonball here's a suggestion: Get some fine sand like that used in a sandbox for kids and make a mold by using a tennisball or something about that size to make an impression in the sand and go to a n auto junkyard and see if you can get a carburator float to be used as the "rudder" on the ball. Buy some junk lead (scrapyard?) and melt it down with a blowtorch etc. Place the carburator float in the mold you've created with half sticking out of the "ball" shape (sideways). Use a piece of heavy coat hanger and make an "eyelet" with a few inches long to be bent into a "y" to be submerged in the lead to hold the eyelet in. Pour the lead and let cool. Brush the sand off and you are set to go. What I'd do is get some of that Plastic dip (likeyou use to dip tool handles in) from Lowes and either dip or brush the ball with it and hang it up to dry so it doesn't mar your boat and you are not in contact with the lead all the time.

Mike....nice report. It doesn't get much better than tapping into the rainbow connection :>) It also is great fun getting novices into some good action. Hope to connect with you at the launchramp one of these days to chat in person and compare notes. I know its VERY optimistic but I'm getting ready for ice fishing :>) Les

I have used nearly every release known to mankind :>) including homemade ones and rubberband jobs etc. I have been using BLACK RELEASES since the late 70's or early 80"s and always returned to them as I have never had any problems with them and best of all they are only about $10 each and can be found in many area tackle shops (check Gander Mountain or Dick's) or order from Cabelas. Once the tension is set (I do it in my yard by hooking up to the downrigger and pulling it and adjusting till it feels right (3-4 pounds pressure). The tension button is very sensitive to adjustments and it can be easily tightened and lossened with changing tackle and trolling conditions. Black makes a few models (e.g. downrigger and outrigger models) and either will work fine on a downrigger. One of my buddies who went with me a couple weeks ago changed over to them for his boat after trying them on my boat :>)

I'd also start with a 6-8 pound weight and if that works OK it would be less torque and still get you down there. It should still be pretty accurate depth wise as long as you aren't really cranking :>)

I think the quickest/easiest route might be to reinforce the top of the transom with a piece of solid aluminum or stainless stock (if you can get it or have it) and purchase a Cannon clamp mount (made specifically for the Easi-troll/mini-mag downriggers) that way you could be able to take the downrigger off and on without much trouble to protect it etc. I would also attach a safety line to the downrigger (just in case). If it is attached to the transom it would be safer in terms of balance within the boat and the 18 inch boom should clear your 6 horse. OR: Check to see if you could create a triangular plate across the preferred corner of the transom and reinforce it good and clamp to that with the downrigger facing outward at a 45 degree angle to get it away from the motor. The material you use would have to be rigid and durable yet still allow clearance for the clamp. When you happnen across some extra bucks in the future you could purchase a Cannon adjustable swivel mount (pricey but worth the investment) which would give you more range of movement. I would definitely opt for the transom mount given the balance etc. within the boat. Here is an example of the Cannon clamp mount : http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cannon-C ... l+Products

Before answering the question about where to locate the downrigger we could use some additional info regarding which downrigger and model, how long is the boom on it, how wide are the gunnels and transom of your boat and what type of fastener/base does the downrigger (if any) have? These items are critical to mounting because in any case the mounting has to be SECURE and remember you are going to have a weight on it and it generates a lot of torque. Also with ONE downrigger the weight on your boat will be distributed differently so on a 12 ft. aluminum boat this will be very important. If the downrigger is one of the small PORTABLE types this may be less of a factor but my hunch is that is not the case. Back in the 70's I used to run two four ft long Riveria manual downriggers on my 13 ft whaler (highly buoyant boat) but I didn't use them on my 12 ft Aluminum because of the potential torque and inability to properly secure them to the boat. The thing to keep in mind is the POTENTIAL to get the cannonball hung upon bottom and this generates MUCH more torque than normal use.

Very nice fish Bruce. We found the same thing with the perch......and couldn't find the big ones at all. I'm surprised that you could even launch at Woodville at all as it has been so shallow there....even the launch at the north end has had its problems 1 1/2 to 2 ft spots in the channel and an obstruction ofsome sort at the south east end of the launch ramp. Maybe all the predicted rain coming will make a difference....

Good going! 64 lakers has to be some kind of record no matter how you slice it :>)

If it were me the choice would be Seneca right now because of the serious lamprey activity reported on Cayuga. Launch out of Sampson State Park and troll for lakers, browns and landlocks starting right out in front of the marina. If you are real lucky you may see browns right in the marina itself. My hunch is that the launch at the north end (Geneva) in the State Park would have low water conditions and this is also thecase at the Chamber of Commerce launch ramp (which also issignificantly "grassed in")

The number for Pellican Point Marina is: 585-554-5400. They are on East Lake Road.

I was at the Woodville launch last week (just looking at it) and it was VERY shallow and I would not chance in my 18 ft. Whaler despite being able to get my Merc outboard up very high and my boat only drafts 12 inches. I 've been launching at the north end OK with my boat but I know of at least two boats that have hit bottom near the south end of the launch and one out in the channel. The last time out there was some water in the channel that was only 1 1/2 to 2 ft deep. I put my 135 outboard prop right at the surface and although it isn't great steering wise I haven't touched but I think the problem with most outdrives is that the range is more restricted in bringing the prop up. You might contact Terry Principe at Pellican Point (if he is still open servicing motors and putting boats away) to see if you could launch out of there if it is "doable". Les

Mike: Nice fish! The look on your kid's face says it all ....he'll remember that one for a long time :>) There is nothing like getting kids into good fish.....the downside....they expect it EVERY TIIME :>) Les

Here it is Sunday AM and I stuck here at home with my visiting in-laws (football fanatics) instead of being out on the pond.....I sure hope the fish gods are good to me later for doing this:>) I also hope some of you guys will be able to report something here on Canandaigua in case I can get out during the week :>)

Here is what I sent to DEC and just received back. Note the name and addresses below is where my email was forwarded so if you ever have input (either way) this is where it should go. Mr. B: Thank you for your email and observations. Webster Pearsall Region 8 Fisheries Manager [email protected] 585-226-5339 >>> Fish FW 10/19/2012 10:37 AM >>> Dear Sirs: I won't reiterate all the details of my concerns here but will rather refer you to the following link wherein I outlined my concerns: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35951&p=216832#p216832 My suggestion for rectifying my concerns would be this change to the regulation: A daily limit of ONE Rainbow Trout on all Finger Lakes TRIBUTARIES but THREE for the lakes proper which would be in line and consistent with the limit on Landlock Salmon. My reasoning is discussed in detail in the link provided at the top. Thank you sincerely for any consideration given to my input. Keep up the good work that you do despite the short staffing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------