Gator

Yes!!! This overwhelming need to be right - it's the root of our largest problem, that is, the inability to communicate effectively with each other. We don't listen, don't want to admit that our opponents may have valid pointe, don't want to recognize that not everything is black and white. Brian makes a good point above: the devil is in the details. I suspect that most of us are much closer to each other than we think, and that we'd be even closer if we sat down over a beer to talk about this stuff. Online forums are a horrible way to communicate, as they promote dogma and lack nuance. How can you listen if you're not even using your ears lol? But forums like LOU are a great way to report where the fish are biting hint, hint!

You can not trust him all you like, but that still doesn't make everything he says a lie. The goalposts do change. Our understanding evolves, and not being perfect beings, we also make mistakes. By loudly proclaiming your distrust, you simply encourage others to do one better. And the gap widens. I've seem way more accusations of manipulation and fraud this past year than I've actually seen manipulation and fraud. And I will also go out on a limb and say that in my conversations with others, I often find that if I get too technical in what I say, misunderstanding abound. You've got to give Fauchi some credit for having the right background and training to be able to make health care determinations based on science and fact. His record has proven his worth. And one final point. Fauchi has a job. His job is to put the health of the American people first. Would you expect the NRA to consider how guns affect drug violence, and soften their position thereby? No, they are built for one thing, to uphold gun rights. So is Fauchi. It's up to the politicians to weigh his message. If you want to blame someone, point your finger in the right direction.

Apologies if I wasn't fair. I reacted to what I perceived. I suspect that quite a bit of what folks say, even from side to side of the debate, isn't as far apart as it would seem. And I do appreciate it when people think deeply about what these numbers mean - perhaps that is what you are going for, rather than simply spitting out statistics compiled by the pundits. I will respond to your first question. I am continuing to push "the narrative" because it is true. The vaccine protects the vulnerable. It protects them directly by making it less likely that they will end up in a hospital (though admittedly protection diminishes with age), and it protects them indirectly by reducing their risk from being exposed to others. Just because something is not perfect is no reason to dismiss it entirely. Just because someone has told you a lie (and I fully acknowledge that the truth has suffered for the sake of a consistent message during this pandemic, which I disagree with entirely) doesn't mean that everything is a lie. I'm not sure how something that's so entrenched - vaccines protect against severe disease - can be consistently challenged. I have seen nothing that supports such a stance. I was with you on your second question right up until the sexual harassment part of it. Regardless, focusing on NYS # versus Ontario and Germany, there's no reason to doubt any of these, so long as they come from credible sources. Not every locale's experience need be identical. Vaccinated folks can get COVID. Immunity wanes. But there's no reason to think that natural immunity is going to be the answer, It isn't for many viruses, including many strains of coronavirus. I think that the story is still evolving, and that trying to extrapolate answers from what we have results in marginal conclusions at best. IMHO, the jab protects you and those you love. Please feel free to volunteer in the ICU if you feel differently and you may change your mind. I can't support a mandate, as I firmly believe that folks should be able to choose wisely or unwisely as they see fit. But they should at least have access to the most credible, up-to-date, and relevant information in order to come to a well-supported conclusion. I will also mention that I agree 100% that viruses will mutate to become more contagious and less virulent as time goes on, and this is generally how we emerge from these pandemics. But that being the case, wouldn't you rather be one of the last to catch a weakened version than the first? Put me on the wait list, please.

Great job at the bell!! It seems like kids have as many pressures as adults these days. I'm glad she was able to make time to create this memory with you.

Since you've decided to enter my ring, I will take a swing lol. The AHA link you provide as "evidence" is nothing but an unrefereed abstract from a recent meeting "ARTERIOSCLEROSIS, THROMBOSIS, VASCULAR BIOLOGY SESSION TITLE: DAMPS, INFECTION AND CARDIOVASCULAR METABOLISM". If you read the abstract with unbiased eyes, you will note that the changes in inflammatory markers were numerical but not statistical. The sole author of the abstract is a renown author who practices medicine at an elite, "invite-only" clinic in Palm Springs. Can you say agenda? The second link is to a letter to "THE LANCET REGIONAL HEALTH EUROPE", which is a far cry from "THE LANCET", one of the most respected medical journals in the world. Nevertheless, the author makes some valid remarks, concluding that vaccinated individuals can contribute to community transmission of COVID-19, and that this should be considered when making public health decisions. Okay, we've done that. This isn't news. Obviously, you are regurgitating stories that are currently circulating on social media or that the pundits have offered to sway your opinion, without really considering their source or underlying merit. I'm certainly not going to claim to have all the answers - as scientists, we are taught to be critical of everything we think we know - but I can recognize a pig in a prom dress easily enough. Take a step back, breath, and reevaluate. 2022 is a fresh start. Do we really need to continue with all the B.S.? FYI, here's a link to some real, local data on breakthrough cases. This is obviously a public health concern and is being taken very seriously. It does not negate the overwhelming benefits of being vaccinated - which for the record, I am against mandating- however, this is my opinion and not based on facts. https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data

Because the booster may be mandated in order to fish L. Ontario next year lol...

Tell us how you really feel lol. My daughter and I had zero reaction to the booster; my wife felt like crap for two days. Our ICU provided sufficient motivation for us - but everyone has to make up their own mind. I'm also neither afraid to live (wisely, I hope), or die (of old age, fingers-crossed), but I am afraid of impacting someone else's right to live. You've got to protect the vulnerable IMHO. Stay safe, be smart, and have a great holiday!

Given the hiatus between regular and holiday hunts and the fact that I'm one doe away from being done, I figured I'd share my season thus far. Bow season started slow, as you might expect given the warmer than normal temperatures. That all changed around the third week of October, when it seemed like every buck in the woods wanted to give me a show. It all came to a head on 10/29, when I had a large eight point chasing a doe in the hay field behind me. The buck came past at full trot twice without presenting a shot opportunity, then headed West with the doe - and I figured they were gone for good. However, ten minutes later, they ran back through, repeated the chasing in the field, and the doe came directly under my stand. "Okay,", I thought, "now's when it happens". Unfortunately, the buck was coming at me from straight behind the tree, and so I had to draw and hold without knowing which side he would pass. As it turns out, that didn't matter in the slightest, since he held up at fifteen yards. I held draw for the longest 90 seconds of my life; 85% let-off is unreal, but I was sweating by the time he turned away, walked North, and disappeared after 100 yards. Talk about disappointed. But just as the adrenaline was working its way out of my system and I was ready to hang the bow up, like magic he appeared, this time headed past at a perfect angle. My shot was broadside at 22 yards. Elation!! The shot looked good to me. He never reacted, just turned and walked North again, toward a large swamp. When I got out of my stand to look for blood, one of my buddies hunting with me texted that he'd also just shot a nice nine point, but it - like mine - walked into the swamp from the other side. So now we had two bucks in the swamp, both with okay blood trails but nothing spectacular and after some initial trailing, we determined that neither died within the first 150 yards (in fact, we had a visual confirmation of my buddy's deer that we bumped once). We decided not to push either deer more than we already had, so we let them lay overnight. I came back the next morning in chest waders, and my buddy had a guy and a dog supposed to show up at 10 am. Long story short, I spend four hours wading through the swamp and managed to find his deer, but not mine. The swamp was too deep for a dog. Both shots were pass through with decent blood - his ended up being a little bit back and high, who knows with mine? I haven't lost one to the swamp in years, but I guess everybody loses occasionally. That didn't help the hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach though. The stories of the two bucks that I shot and recovered this year are much less dramatic. The first one was during crossbow: I was texting with Brian about how this particular stand I was hunting had been a complete waste of time this year, when a nice eight showed up and walked through both my lanes before I could even pick up my bow. Luckily, he turned on a grunt and I was able to make a perfect shot at 28 yards; he died within 70. The second was during muzzleloader, when Brian and I doubled up last Friday night, five minutes and 400 yards apart. I won't repeat the story since it's recently in this thread. Between bucks were a couple of doe, all good, clean kills and tasty tasty tasty, as well as Brian's son Brayden shooting his first deer, which is really the icing on the cake this year. The rut IMHO was drawn out, with >two weeks of searching followed by a great chase phase. The last week of bow didn't produce much activity for me, and gun season was slow, too, up until recently. But man, that month in the middle of bow was one of the best I've seen in years. Once it got colder, it was like somebody flipped a switch. The pictures below are my bow buck, with a couple photos the neighbor's wife took of him the week prior, when he destroyed the guy's buck target in the backyard lol, and the bucks Brian and I doubled up on.

I have one more doe in me, and I'm hoping we can get Brayden on his first muzzleloader deer. It should be a nice week to sit on some fields and not worry too much about "the big one".

It was ~4:45 when Brian shot, and I almost got out of my stand when he sent me a picture of his buck and walked the 3/4 mile to the ATV - but then figured I should at least give it until 5 pm. Good decision. I hadn't seen a deer up until then, but we all know how fast things change in the woods. Interestingly, the buck I shot was not in the group that Brian saw chasing doe. And after he shot, those deer went an entirely different direction. By OnyxHunt, I was 433 yards from him as the crow flies across some gnarly swamp. So just coincidence? Or that magic half-hour when everything gets up, which we wouldn't have been able to hunt last year. Thank you, DEC!

Five minutes and 400 yards apart - both dropped in their tracks. The most fun was weaving the ATV through all the standing water and downed trees to recover them lol!! The woods are a mess.

Maybe a bit harsh? Softie.

Man, I wish I only had to clean my barrel every ten shots. If I don't clean it after three or four using triple seven, forcing a bullet down the barrel becomes a Herculean effort. Agreed that BH needs special primers, otherwise pop fizz, "damn!!" not that I would know lol.

Well played! Although you should have had one of the other guys pose next to it so that it looks bigger lol. How are you going to have it processed?

Hell of a shot with a shotgun for anybody, much less a kid. Good for her! Convert for life, I hope.

Crazy, but I saw zero deer today. Hunted the swamp this morning and the edge of a hay field this afternoon. They cut corn the past few days up front, and every deer in the neighborhood was partying like it was 1999 up there. It didn't help that the neighbor drove an ATV out from his stand at 4:30 through a swamp and creek directly upwind of me. So much for my expectation of evening movement. Our two youngest were the shooters today - Brayden got that doe, and Jeff's kid Caleb took what should have been an eight, but due to fighting was a five. The rest of us were just glad to be there...

It's true that deer can carry COVID...don't let them breathe on you! Six-foot rule! Glad to see you downed one before the orange army descends, Joe.

It's a real pleasure to get to see a good dog work. Tough luck not seeing much activity two of three days, but it sounds like 25% of your crew scored, and that's not bad for fair chase.

Getting it done! Congratulations. Glad to hear you're back in the woods, Joe. Good luck.

I hunt with compound and crossbow both, and there is a striking difference between them in terms of the preparation necessary to kill a deer cleanly. Not having to draw and hold a crossbow is a significant advantage, too. In other words, it's a more effective weapon. Unfortunately, this tends to bring out folks who simply don't want to put in the time...not everyone certainly, but more so than with a compound. I have a similar regard for folks who pick up their bow a week before season. So, I love hunting with my crossbow, and I see clear advantages as I get older, but I recognize that there are drawbacks (pun intended) to including it in bow, as well.

Nice buck, Todd!! I took a doe this morning and let the buck walk, cause my buddy is looking for venison, and he doesn't hunt. Can you believe he was paying upwards of $30 a pound for D'Artangian Farms venison from Wegmans.? He's ecstatic to have a whole deer. I need one myself now for some Cajun Cranberry sausage from Swans and some smoked goodies from Greg.

Congratulations to all who scored! I see no need to qualify a clean kill with "it's not the biggest buck" though. We focus too much on the rack and not enough on the enjoyment of the day. I love the stories leading up to the shot...Isaac's tale got me teared up...and I'd rather a season of good hunts than a big buck any day (not casting shade on Rob's buck - it would have been tough to pass on).