skipper19

Fish weight is important because it means that the fish are finding food or not. You can argue all you want about our forage data or how much forage is out there. If the fish are good size, you know that there is good forage.. I also like to look at catch rates. When catch rates are high, it typically means that fish are more hungry healthy, and energetic (not always though). Alewife year class strength and how good year classes survive through the years is also important. As trawl data in 2016 indicates missing Alewife of the salmon preferred 2 and 3 year class forage that is related to extremely cold winters and stressful spawning conditions of 2013 and 2014, we have the mild winter of 2015 that was favorable for alewife spawn and survival. That 2015 one year class are the 2 year old class in spring of 2017. Presumably able to support more salmon stocking numbers in the pens in closer proximity to those 2 year old alewife which migrate and hang in the warmer waters of the warming solstice spring and summer. Thereby giving the young salmon the fastest access to the forage they prefer. A necessary component to kick starting the maximum growth potential of a mature salmon. Therefore in the intrest of survival and growth potential of stocked salmon, I advocate increases in pen rearing stocks, and decreased direct stock until the forage base regains another year class in 2018. Keeping the average between the 2 stocks normal without cuts to the total on the respect of forage alone. Angler success rate is another factor and could be a player in the total scheme of things for an increase. As this winter season reveals conditions favorable then maybe we could increase direct and increase pen in 2018 and on accordingly to the availability of preferred forage. That's a wait and see on mother nature's part. Creel census by DEC was never done on my trips this season. Without that data it is hard to determine angler success rates. So I will contribute what I can here. I firmly believe success of limit catches has been more possible when stocks are high, due to better knowledge sharing, equipment, and participation. An estimate to match the supply and demand is a feature to be an indicator for increased stocking as well. I would like to see an angler survey site on line to help with that. Some cause and effect observation of my own..purely observational and unscientific but as information saturated as I am. This past season. Approximately 15 trips starting July4th ending September 12th. Without DEC creel census ever done on my trips this past season, here is my report. July chinook catch excellent Point Breeze ..Shadigee to Sandy Creek August..same locations...catch rates dropped dramatically to basically nothing by end of month. September..no change from above in that location. Catch rate was good however at Niagara Bar. Chinook weight for age 2 and 3 Age 2...without actual scale readings...18 to 21 inch fish underweight in comparison to previous years Age 3....most chinook under 36 inches...underweight but better than last season by a few pounds. Two clipped kings at Niagara Bar 23.64 and 20.30 lbs (4 year olds) saved the heads for tag extraction (staging salmon weight) Chinook condition Healthy well proportions to weight Less lamprey marks observed from previous years Catch per Effort Solo trips mostly and some 2 and 4 man trips. Many salmon caught on non specific baits, but more on long copper and dipsey than downriggers. Herring strip caught majority (smell and size triggered response to preferred forage target) 2 year class Alewife representation of the missing year class makes sense. Coho weight Not many caught but healthy and also a big consumer of alewife to be considered. Forage biomass on sounder equipment Smaller pods this year more scattered, but very numerous. In the typical water columns related to comfort zone. Alewife year class strength Guessing the majority is adult more than 3 years and large. Stomach remains of processed salmon indicated same. % natural reproduction Anyone's guess without fin clips in 3 past seasons Incidence of disease None Composition of catch (how many chinook compared to lake trout, brown, steelhead coho, etc) 90 % Lastly, I wonder how much effort a new stocked salmon has to expend to chase, grab, and eat a large adult Alewife. Leading to the lighter weight 2 year olds caught. Is there a starvation factor to consider among young salmon? They definitely take mag size spoons and the meat rigs with reckless abandon. Could be easier to catch a slow swimming angler's bait than a large escaping alewife that's hard to swallow for a baby salmon. Mark Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3 Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Haaaa!...good one!..I'll let him know your looking for a chum pot!Take care Carl! Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

I want to thank each and every one of you, as bow hunting brethren, for the encouraging responses. I have thought about the very day many times over. Pretty much kept the emotion inside and never really talked about it. The day even seems to be more prevalent in memory than some of the more memorable good hunts. Even getting the venison cooked on the grill brought it forward. I know that each time I go to the garage, my old climber and safety vest and the static line with prusic knots, are calling me. They have hung there on the post silently calling for two seasons to pack them in and get on the old tree, and watch the life of the woods come into my space so close again.. Thanks for letting me see if I'm "OK"...life does a few checkups once in a while. Be safe my friends! Mark Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

I'm with you on the being "affected deeply" on a wounded buck laying there with an arrow in a poor, non vital hit. I was so affected 2 years ago I haven't been in the field since. I have hunted with the bow for 40 years. Have taken lots of deer, wounded one i didnt recover, but this was different. I did recover this deer, not like i wanted to though. Don't know if it's my age or what, but I felt terrible remorse when the deer fell on the spot at 30 yards, but the arrow only broke the spine and he lay there crawling away by front legs. As I became shaken and in haste by what had happened, the buck was able to crawl behind a log into a hollow even further away. I tried 3 more attempts to arrow him again from my stand. Didn't happen. Hit the log... hit the ground... hit him once more nearly in the same spot. Now I have no more broadheads to launch, and I sat there waiting, hopefully an artery hit would have him go to sleep. To say I felt like just wishing I hadn't even gone to hunt that day is an understatement, and that is not how I like to end a day of what is something I cherish as my chance to rejuvinate. I sat there for an hour and no difference in the deers alertness. So I slowly climbed down, moved towards him searching for one of the arrows in the ground that could still be used to finish him. I found one, cleaned it off and I looked into that deers sole. I felt like I was moving in slow mothion, watching the buck...fumbling with the arrow cleaning it, and putting it on the string. The buck was only 5 or 10 yards from me and I could hear him, I could see his shaking anxiety, I could feel his impending doom, and I was part of all of it for what had happened. I finished him with that arrow from the ground, but not without terrible remorse, as he gasped for the last breath. I was not proud of that hunt, and worst of all it was my last one so far, and it is still a deeply affecting day. Learned a lot that day about something inside of me, and to be even more respectful than ever of that animal in my sights, I should have waited, I should have let him walk, the out of form shot I took was stupid. On the range, it was easy always shooting perfect form. In the field, it's not that way. I didn't practice that out of form shot from a stand and a tree it's attached to. I consider myself a good hunter, and a good shot with the bow, but I have learned that I also have changed due to that experience. I have to get back into it again, but I sure do feel differently than I did when I was a young hunter, and success was more important than the experience back then. Luckily I was successful most of the time and then the experience seemed to be fulfilled by that. Now, well, I just gotta get back out there and enjoy the experience again, even if I don't take a shot on another buck that walks right by me. I guess I might be just a "softer" hunter now. Hope everyone is successful and safe this season. Enjoy the experience and remember it's nature, and you are a part of it's purpose. Have a great hunt everyone! Mark Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

That should be fun!not quite the same as netting a king salmon lol...let me know if ya need a gaff man! Should make for a really good story with a 50 plus hoo! Watch out for Omganothershortfatbaldone...baldy for short...he's been MIA for a few months here. Said something about the Marathon hump last post. Cuba might have mistaken him for a spy disguised as a hairy sea urchin....Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Nice catch Andy and son! Great pics! Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

X2 with Paul and Pap!Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app Here's what's really crazy! I already ate the mount, 3 years ago, I'm GOING to have done soon. Good pictures and data records and any fish can be closely duplicated by a skilled artist. So if it's got some form of beauty, it's got a story, take dozens of high quality pics, measurement and save the data. Do it later when you find the quality taxidermist to do it right!...haste makes waste. Shop quality not price! AND...I have not beat it's size, weight, and story to this date. 42 inches 29lbs 13oz, fresh lake salmon in colors and character not matched since.

True enough!..in terms of what we catch, they all look healthy indeed. The ones we don't catch might have starved, but in context, I was really speaking figuratively, and by no means meant the fish that I caught looked that way. I just think the reason they are so voraciously grabbing a large spoon is that they are used to seeing large alewife and probably would think the target was an easy meal compared to the chase they give to the real thing!..like an infant trying to eat steak!..sort of..Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Thanks Les, yeah we have a problem off of Point Breeze in the same way. I am pretty sure that the spawning salmon have figured out the heavy flows into the lake. Those are mostly Niagara the Oswego, and occasionally the salmon river with reservoir releases, when they can,..of course all these on the US side. So when we speak of stratified population, it is an observation of my own that, that is quite evident after being down at the Niagara flow and seeing the screen concentration of stacked kings just waiting for the right river temp. Bait WAS there, but not in heavy concentration like off Point Breeze. So those salmon are really in a waiting game, with occasional feeding.Last week I went off shore at Point Breeze and the little 2 year olds about 18 to 20 inches...And this year's stocks, about 8 to 9 inches, were playing with mag spoons and meat!..my guess is, these small salmon are trying to eat 4, and 5 to 7 year old alewife all the time. There is huge bait out there...lots of it! 370 fow was loaded, and the little salmon are there TRYING to eat them if they can CATCH them. I can't imagine it's easy, but a slow swimming mag spoon half the size of some of the salmon is an easy target. That target doesn't try to flee. I wonder how many of these small kings are really starving because the 2 and 3 year old alewife are down and the bigger alewife are more evasive and slightly hard to swallow in size. Hmmmm... Mark Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Not too long, the instinct to spawn will drive them to try. The biological clock runs down and if conditions are not ideal for their purpose then the stress of warm low water will definitely have a bad outcome. Many will not make the trip and the natural spawned young of the year will be much lower than the estimated 50% of population in the lake from wild fish that science says is happening. I don't believe those numbers, but I'm not one of those guys behind the microscope either. Maybe in perfect world terms it flies...but lately with the climate swings it's not something I could bet on. Hope the fall weather brings what the salmon need to be happy this year. Only a few more weeks to fall colors and that is usually the start of peak spawning runs. Hope for plenty flows and cooler nights with some long slow rain. Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Pap, I think we have had only one real lake turnover this season. It was at the beginning of August and so there isn't a lot of "homogenized " water yet. The cold water is still deep and the warm water is not a real trigger yet for spawn runs. We have had a lot of hot weather even yet today and little change at night and almost a drought situation which has been prevalent this summer on the west end. I think the salmon are going through the change, and just chilling to wait for river temps to decrease and water flows to increase. Lots of warm water in the tribs so far. The salmon still have to eat occasionally. I don't think salmon begin to react out of total aggression until they come out of the depths and begin the typical porpoising you see in the shallows outside the tribs. However I think even still, the action of the big spindoctor triggers a reaction of a feeding frenzy, and the corkscrew cripple action of the smelly familiar bite looks and smells like an easy meal. Sent from my SM-N900P using Lake Ontario United mobile app