jekyll

Krash: First, look for rides on boats needing extra hands. I and others frequently post open seats. This allows you to fish on a fully outfitted (or nearly so) boat for no cash outlay for equipment. You just share in gas costs and replace any gear you lose or break. We benefit by sharing costs and adding more rods to our spread, someone to steer, increased safety over fishing alone and generally having someone to talk with versus mumbling to ourselves or the seagulls. Second, you can try jigging or mooching. This is done by drifting and bouncing a bait or spoon along the bottom. This works well for lakers and takes salmon. Also, you can jig/mooch suspended in the water column. Jigging and mooching is the prefered method for lake trout in many other parts of the world. Buzz bombing had a large following in the Pacific NW back in the 80s when I attended college (Go Huskies). It consists of large, exagerated jiggs off the bottom with a buzz bomb lure. The buzz bomb spins and emmits harmonics as it settles back to the sludge. I tried it here one afternoon for about 30 minutes but got no takes. I and others jig for lakers in the finger lakes. Trolling is productive yes, but the jigging hits and fights are more fun and more productive when you find the right depth and location. You can do this from an inner tube with a zebco and a set of flippers Third, you can cast off the breakwalls, piers and beaches at various times of the year as the salmon head up stream and when the trout head up and then return. Forth, one of the least expensive means for getting into the fish is with fireline or prower pro dipsy set ups. You don't need dozens of dipsies, flashers and flies to make this work. You can buy 2 Cabelas rod/reel combos with Cabelas LC reels for $110 each: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true. Add the line for $30 each, 2 dipsies and 2 flashers (white/green/chartruse) and 5 or 6 flies ($30). This will give you basic trolling ability from late June trough September for a cost of about $360 to $400 for 2 complete set ups (if I did my math correctly). Finally, the fall salmon run in the streams is electifying. Yes, I troll all season long and as much as I can but it never satiates the burning urge to get on the streams and battle the kings hand to fin. I spend exhorbitant amounts of money on trolling: a boat, hundreds of gallons of gas, a dozen rods and reels, flashers, flys, spoons, down riggers, dispsies and copper. River fishing is far less exspensive. Waders and boots $150, ONE good rod and reel, $100 to $400, a rain jacket $50, a vest $40 and about $50 worth of tackle and tools. I sometimes land up to 50 kings a day when the planets are aligned and usually put many on the bank if they are in the river. This can be a very tiring form of fishing with all the walking, wading, casting and fighting but it is very satisfying.

K: You didn't mention a brand so I read that as looking for data on all. The Cannon monitor easily comes of the boat. It has a thumb screw bracket and connector on the back. If you desire to remove the down rigger, you need to make some adjustments or live with the need to twist the cable trough the antenna. On my 19 footer, I connected the cable to the removable DR and coiled up the slack. It all comes off with the DR. The power cable and antenna join at the single connector so I spliced in a 2 prong connector into the power cable near the monitor.

I've used 30# fireline for 4 years on dipsies and sometimes on riggers. Yeah, fireline gets fleas but it cleans much easier than mono of comparable diameter. I wonder how 50# fireline would work, anybody use this?

I started fishing out of Mexico this season and haven't noticed any rumbling. Maybe it was a one-time occurance or in the past. Most Mexico Bay fishermen have nothing but good things to say about the Mexico charters; I've heard NO complaints. I also find the charters to be much more willing to share information than those out of Oswego. I am just one data point though. Now, the things I've heard about those Henderson Harbor boats..... Only kidding!

Cannon probe is $340.60 at www.HodgesMarine.com, 2 day service cost another $20.00. Don't ask how I know.

Jim: If you have trouble Shanghai'in a crew, you can come with me out of Mexico. I'm putting a crew together for Saturday, Sunday and Monday am. I have 2 for Saturday so far but no other confirmations yet. I can use you, another 2 rods in the water is always a good thing (Saturday also). Bring some Cu. Probably chase BT till about 8am then rig up for the bigguns. I have a Penn Yan 275. C: 908-619-8050

Mike's Marina in Mexico. There is a non-affiliated campground directly across the road. http://www.mikesmarina.com/

Geez Ray, have you tried a seine net? I bet you fish at fish ladders also Yankee: Cheaters limit the length of your leader. The cheater slides down the line when a fish hits until it stops on something, usually the swivel of your main spoon. Your leader length is set by your ability to net a fish (distance from rod tip to net in the water).

2 anglers = 2 DRs cheated (fixed or sliding) and 2 wire dipsies 3 anglers = 2 DRs cheated (fixed or sliding) and -2 wire dipsies and 2 copper or lead off planers or -4 wire dipsies or -2 wire dipsies and a thumper and a copper or lead of off a planer

www.amishoutfitters.com

Yeah, here's a typical Oswego boat: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/caddy ... 2732277456 Seriously though, I fished Oswego pretty heavy for 3 seasons in an 18 foot Alumacraft and I was bullied by the bigger boats. It may be that when running on auto pilot some feel they have the right of way because they "chose their course first". I came to enjoy the joisting because it provides a great means for exercising the gray matter. Estimating closure rates and angles as you work through the pack is a skill that must be developed. I've heard the charters cussing and complaining about the little guys on many occasions as if it was their Lake. They should remember that the fishery is supported by and for the recreational angler, whether they be on a charter boat, in their own boat or off the shore/pier. The lake is open to boats and crews of all experience levels and we shouuld all be preppared for and considerate of those with the least experince. We all started at the same level of ignorance and learned to fit in.

Try Mike's Marina in Mexico 315-963-3119. Some folks put a tent up near their boat. Also a campground directly accros the street (not affiliated with Mike's) where you can pitch a tent. I don't know if they would allow you to sleep on the dock with liability issues. I sleep on my boat when there and only hear the bull frogs and mosquitos until the charters start warming their engines around 4am. Don't need an alarm clock unless you are a heavy sleeper.

I have non-telescoping Easy Trolls and the booklet says 8 lb max. I have successfully used 10# and 13# pancake wieghts. I broke 1 boom on a snag however, I don't think the wieght contributed.

I posted the following in another thread about dipsy leader lenght: It's limited by your reach when landing fish. Bring the dipsy to the rod tip and see how much reach you have from tip to water. If you go longer, you will create a challenge at the back of the boat when netting. The variables are the length of your rod, the distance from your deck to the water and the length of your net handle. You will get the feel for it once you start. You can test your variables using the dipsy without anything attached. Tie it to your line; let it out while trolling your boat. Reel it in as if it were a fish and try netting it. The greatest distance back that you feel comfortable netting it will establish the maximum limit you want your fish to be from your boat. That distance will be the combined length of your dipsy, snubber, leader, flasher, fly and fish.

A related question: I have a 275 Penn Yan and run my bags from the front cleat. Yes it gets lots of swing but the auto pilot deals with that now. My boat doesn't have a center cleat. I keep my rope long enough to allow me to pull the bag inside behind the hardtop for stowing. Question: Are the bow railing uprights strong enough to tie the bags from versus the cleat. This will allow a shorter and more aft front lead and less swing.

Yes. Don't use drift bags, they aren't constructed to sustain trolling speeds. Amish outfitter bags are made with trolling in mind. I run 1-28 inch on a 28 foot with a 350. Only when I have a 20 mph wind on the stern do I need the 2nd bag. Google Amish Outfitter buggy bag and you'll find them.

If all else fails, saw it off and trim up the tip. You won't miss 1/2 inch on a 10 foot rod. The twilly tip kit should have an adapter to fit most anything.

I was at my slip in Mexico with my blower on ready to start when I saw the sky. Shut it down and waited for morning. It was a bad one all right; I was looking for the hook of a tornado. It did eliminate the humidy though, making Sunday nice and comfy.

T--7 Yup, that'll work provided that you use a quality snap swivel on your main line. You can use a longer leader to the F/F or spoon. It's limited by your reach when landing fish. Bring the dipsy to the rod tip and see how much reach you have from tip to water. If you go longer, you will create a challenge at the back of the boat when netting. The variables are the length of your rod, the distance from your deck to the water and the length of your net handle. You will get the feel for it once you start. You can test your variables using the dipsy without anything attached. Tie it to your line; let it out while trolling your boat. Reel it in as if it were a fish and try netting it. The greatest distance back that you feel comfortable netting it will establish the maximum limit you want your fish to be from your boat. That distance will be the combined distance of your snubber, leader, flasher, fly and fish. Sounds like you will have 2 people on board so you don't want to be walking to the bow to take in excess leader. It is a WA but that is not the best way Size 1 or magnum dipsies will work great, both with rings. Dipsy color is another of those graduate level/personal opinion issues. Several good charter guys I know keep it simple though; all black or all clear. You can spend a grunch of money buying all colors and sizes of dipsies but in my opinion, stick with 1 or 2 colors and spend your money on different colored flashers, dodgers and lures. Might be a good idea to have 2 colors and assign them to a specific side of the boat. They are set (by you) for a specific side of the boat. Black to port and clear to starboard may help you remember which one is set for which side. You only need to buy 1 more than the number of rods you will use (always good to have a spare on board). Jon's Little Salmon Bait & Tackle is about 100 yards north of the turn off to Mexico Point launch. It is at 221 State Route 104B in Mexico right on the Texas border (I love these names). He opens early and will have everything you need for trolling riggers or dipsies. Call in advance for his hours, 315-963-7800. Say "hi" to Bo for me.

Tâ€â€7 I sent you a private message. Channels 68 and 5 are popular in the Oswego area while Mexico seems to lean more to 78, 9 and 68. I'm on 78 in Mexico. FishUSA.com is a great source for trolling supplies. I buy much of my stuff from them. Daiwa Heartland dipsy combos with Daiwa Sealine SG47LCA reels go for $119.00. If you are setting it up for wire, ensure you also buy a twilly tip. I just bought a thumper rod from them along with Malin 30# and a twilly tip kit for $170 to my door. Tom at A-Tom-Mik (http://www.atommiktrollingflies.com/dip ... _combo.htm) will ship you a rig ready to fish for a little bit more. He sells Eagle Claw rods but the reel will be the same. Additionally, Tom's rigs will come with the tip installed, wire loaded and a swivel tied on. (the only complaint I have with A-Tom-Mik is that his web site is about the most illogical lay out I've ever seen, very chaotic and difficult to find things (it’s got to hurt sales)). Do a search for wire and dipsies on this site and you'll find lots of threads about selecting equipment, loading the wire and employing the rigs. You can run any type of tackle off them, flasher/fly, dodgers, spoons, meat, spin-n-glows. I don’t know if a cow bell or lake troll would work though. That would put a significant bend on the rod and stress the holder and gunnel. FishUSA.com has a great reference book "Precision Trolling, Big Water Edition" for $24.95. A reel jewel (pun intended). This gives dive charts for all dipsy sizes for 3 line set ups, 30# wire, 30# braid and 30# mono. It also gives depth charts for jet divers and lead balls for thumpers. Don't confuse this book with its sister edition, volume 2 which just lists dive charts for specific plugs, not the dipsies. As you start accumulating rods and reels, I suggest you start buying only line counters for the first dozen (see, this is an expensive addiction). I guess I'm only kidding but I do suggest your 1st handful of rigs be counters. They cost a little more but you can use them in any position in your spread. You will find them useful on your DRs for a variety of tactics. (lead and copper rigs not included here, they have different considerations and equipment, this is one of those graduate level issues I referred to earlier). Heck, I’ve got 12 rigs on my boat and I’m not pulling copper or lead yet. I guess I’m looking at another 5-6 rigs in my future. I started buying non-counters for my DRs and counters for my dipsies only to realize the counters offered me greater flexibility on my DRs.

Thanks Mountain Goat. T--7 Probably lots of ways to do cheaters, but I use a swivel only where it clips around the main line. The lure end gets a coast lock or similar of an appropriate size for the targeted fish. The cheater leader should be no longer than what you can land a fish with. When the fish hits the cheater, it will slide down to the other spoon or swivel/bead/etc. until it stops. This means that if you have a spoon on the main line behind a swivel and, let’s say a 6 foot leader, your cheater can use the same leader length with no penalty. If your main spoon is tied to the main line, the cheater leader will slide to the spoon and you will be limited by your rod and net reach. Select your cheater leader length in response to how you set your main spoon. I wouldn't use a flasher/fly in either location with a cheater because of the FUBAR you'll get when you take a hit. The flasher can make a goat rope out of your line as the cheater and main line converge in front of the fish, then around the fish and then above the fish as he swims away after being knocked of by the whirling dervish in its face. Dipsies vs. stacking rods. In all honesty, I tried stacking rods twice. Didn't work well for me. Seems like the planning and steps necessary to get them set and down takes nearly the same amount of work as planning the Normandy invasion. Sliding cheaters are simple. 1. set your main rod and lower it, 2. attach the slider and let it sink. Simple as pie. Fixed cheaters are only a small bit more work but you control their distance from the main lure. If I can run 4 rods, it will always include dipsies. They increase your swath through the water and get your tackle away from the man-made disturbances (props, bags, balls and cables). I'm sensitive to tangles because I usually fish with my wife meaning I get all the tackle rigging and rod setting duties. She gets to fight and land fish. I can't risk stacked rods with cheaters on each as Tank does for fear I’d be in the back of the boat all day with bird’s nests. Maybe I don't understand them but, when it comes to 4 rods, they'll be the 2 DRs and 2 dipsies. For 6 rods, I go to another set of dipsies or in-line planers (even more width to my swath). That's me but, it may not be the go-to choice for others. The only things I stack on my boat are the cheese slices on my sandwiches and the fish in my cooler. Don't play poker on my boat though because I do "cheat". Mexico Point State Launch is a great launch. I don't know the cost. It is a 50 yard idle to the Lake. Mike's Marina and Salmon Country have launches - give them a call. I don't know prices or policies but they are both about a 1 mile idle to the Lake (all no-wake zones). So, all-in-all, I recommend the State launch (these are all on the Little Salmon River).

T--7 I started this 4 years ago and I still feel like I'm looking down a fire hose. There is a lot to learn; as soon as you think you figure something out, the fish toss you a curve. I have a few suggestions more from a learning strategy angle than specific tackle: 1. Walk around the marinas and look at how other folks set up their boats. Pay attention to rod holders on gunnels and transom. Think about how you will set rods, fight and land fish and keep things from tangling under water. 2. Go out on a charter for a crash course in Lake O trolling techniques. Ensure you find a charter with a captain or mate willing to answer questions. Tell them your needs - to learn versus filling a limit. The money you spend for the charter will be repaid in the future by better buying habits. You'll avoid wasting money on items you soon realize you should have forgone. 3. Cheat your rigger rods versus stacking multiple rods. This doubles your hooks in the water for the same number of rods. Use fixed or sliding cheaters or mup rigs. 4. A good 4-rod set up to learn with is 2 DR rods and 2 dipsies (wire or braid line). The braid might be easier to start with because it is more forgiving of operator technique. I'm adding a thumper this year after 4 years of DRs and dipsies. In my opinion, it is better to become a journeyman with each type of trolling technique than to start as an apprentice on all at once. Rifle vs. shot gun theory. 5. Tackle and techniques differ substantially between Browns, salmon and steelhead. Terminal tackle colors, sizes, speeds and depths vary by species to different extents. Your equipment will be multi-taskable with some exceptions on lighter line for Browns but your terminal tackle and how you run it will be different. I recommend you target 1 species first so a. you don't get confused and miss-apply lessons from 1 species to another, b. don't get frustrated by spotty results across the board, c. spread cost over time d. speed your learning curve. 6. Get on boats with other experienced fish'in men. Get them on yours! You will learn much more, more quickly. 7. PLine is GREAT stuff but in my opinion, the FloroClear is better suited for main line duties versus the Florocarbon. The FloroClear is a coated or co-polymer line designed for main line applications. I use the FloroClear exclusively on my river salmon rigs, Brown rigs and walleye rigs. 8. Lake O trolling can be very expensive when starting. I recommend you start with several default colors on flashers/flies: whites/greens/blues. Spoons, well you can spend your entire 401K or IRA on spoons if you’re not careful. Again, consider targeting 1 species first to control expenditures. You will find some spoons will take everything, Orange Crush, NBK, Kevorkian, Chicken Wing come to mind. A good piece of advice I accepted is to always buy 2 when buying a new spoon. You'll learn the reasons why as you gain experience. Employ a means of identifying your spoons such as a labeled spoon box. You will hear lots of radio chatter discussing what spoons folks are catching fish on. It doesn't do a novice any good if you tossed out the spoon package without annotate the name in your box. This will greatly speed your learning curve. Understanding the lingo is critical to learning from others. Also, you'll feel better at the cleaning station when you are able to reply like a pro to the inevitable question of "what did it take?" Much more macho to quickly say "it took an NK-28 Dirty White Boy, 70/90, back 30 feet at 2.7" than something like "this black and green kind of spoon but I don't know who made it". 9. Save the graduate level issues for the future after you have gained a more solid foundation. There are topics that will fry your mind as you try to learn this addiction such as: single or treble, ring or no ring, skirts in or out, tape, speeds of different brand spoons, flashers and dodgers, scents or clean, glow or not. Listen to these topics but don't become maniacal about chasing each one until you build your foundation better. Most of these types of issues center on opinion or shades of gray and you need a bit of experience to separate the wheat from the chaff. 10. Important things to keep in mind: a. Speed: you need to move the lure through the water within a specific speed range to get the action that will entice. There are strong currents down below and you need a means for determining their strength. Probe, thumper, blow back or a radio/cell phone call to someone that will tell you the current. Other than that, match the speed of other boats and vary your speed till you find what works. North-South trolls work well because the current is more East-West. This results in your GPS or surface speed being closer to your down speed. b. Depth of the fish: fish/finder, thermocline or strikes will give you the info for that. Be attuned to what's happening. Remember, just because you aren't seeing fish doesn't mean they aren't there. Your F/F has a small cone so the fish must be almost under your transducer to show up. 95% of the fish I catch don't show on the F/F. They take the dipsies or move in from the outside to the riggers. Fish look up for chow, not so much down. Your tackle should be above or at their depth not below. You will get some to move down for a strike but best to be at or slightly above them. Oh yeah, you need to know the depth of your baits, Get dipsy charts, and use your F/F for your balls (50kHz works best) or get a probe. c. Temperature: This relates closely to depth. Try to determine down temps. Use a probe, listen on your VHF (or ask). Set the sensitivity on your FF to detect the thermocline once it settles in. d. Tackle colors, types and sizes are less important than the big three: speed - temp - depth. Agressive fish will hit a beer tab if it has the right action and it's in the right depth and temperature zone. 11. Gather the strength to stand in front of a group of strangers and say, "Hi, I'm Joe and I'm addicted to trolling the Big O."

The first hit I took on 30# fireline without a snubber cleaned me off. Always used a snubber thereafter. Never lost anything with a snubber. Seems like inexpensive insurance to me. Dipsy, spro, flasher and fly adds up to the cost of a rod or enough gas to troll for X long. Sorry, I didn't feel like putting in the number of hours you can troll because gas prices will climb before this is read

Consider Elberta Clippers from Legendary Products. They easily clip n your line at any depth you desire. The slide down when a fish starts tuggin. http://www.legendaryproduct.com/Fixed_Slider_1.asp Use the Sinker Clipper just like the Elberta Clipper for heavier rigs intended for the big boys. They are the same as the fixed slider but with a stronger spring. http://www.legendaryproduct.com/Sinker_Cliper_1.asp

Z: I like the pinch pad releases but never had good luck with the Cannons. I switched to Scotty Power Grip Plus pinch relases last year and REALLY like them. I use the large size when pulling whirling dervishes with flys or cheated spoons and use the mini's when pulling single spoons. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true