LongLine

Don't know what Jeff is doing. Maybe a new crew going all over and getting used to area? At least one of the "Kids" did some mapping:

After hard nights work off Olcott (18mile) Kaho is back in Oswego, well deserving a day off.

Kaho left the Genny yesterday evening and headed west to Olcott with a stop off the oak.

More night shift work for the Kaho: Don't know what Jeff is looking at/for:

Chin, sk8 - St Lawrence flows directly to Atlantic Ocean. ___________ I've never known a researcher that didn't want more data. Policy makers often use the "best available data, " to guide decisions and sometimes unknowns affect the outcomes. (In all professions not just fishery science.) AS do require lengthy resident time but all those studies (that I'm aware of) reference ability/size required to transition to saltwater environment. I.E. salinity and food source. The lake obviously not saltwater and the "bug hatch" every year out to 150FOW is often very fierce. Yearlings(+) stand a better chance than fingerlings. CDNs proved that. Is it enough growth...I don't know but bigger is better. Some lake catches (although not as great as some would like) have been reported. (Many more than 5-6 years ago) Policy makers often consider carrying capacity of the water. (Pred-Prey balance is the basis for lake stocking numbers) AS and BT can/do inhabit the same water as BT readily adapt and are very "hardy." DEC ceased stocking BT there this year however Powder Mill continues to stock within the park limits. BT stocking consisted of approx. 10,000 each for both 2024 and 2025 in the creek (combined Apr 1st & May 1st for both years) and Nat Repro has been documented there. "Kids of all ages" have a very good chance to catch BTs there. What would happen to that fishery with 15-30,000 AS stocked in the spring? I don't know, but IMO risking disruption to that fishery, after so much time, effort and the "kids of all ages" opportunity is foolhardy.

Work finally resumed on Brandon Road Asian carp barrier to help keep them out of Great Lakes- YAY! https://greatlakes.org/2026/09/work-resumes-on-brandon-road-invasive-carp-barrier/ https://news.wttw.com/2026/09/03/trump-lifts-stop-work-order-great-lakes-invasive-carp-barrier-construction-resume News - Alliance for the Great Lakes Trump Lifts Stop-Work Order on Great Lakes Invasive Carp Barrier, Construction to Resume | Chicago News | WTTW

HB - Thank you for your contributions to this site. Your negativity and derogatory statements are hilarious, and we all need some humor nowdays. Suggest you remove your thumb and hitchhike to Adirondack Hatchery and Tunison. Even you may learn something about fish...but no....probably a total waste of time and money. for someone so against learning anything about the overall fishery (?) You've almost convinced me that stocking anything in Sandy is a waste of money. (Recently got a few steelhead, but no Kings and no Browns - refer to above link.) Maybe improving the overall fishery in all management zones with limited resources isn't the way to go (?) Now you need to work on the decision makers at DEC, USF&WS, USGS, etc.(?) They probably need a laugh too. Historically it's a "Put and Take" fishery. You obviously care only about "Take, Take, and Take more." Whereas some care about both in all the zones with an eye on improvement.. I'm not afraid of asking questions (note the "?" marks in my previous posts) oops...not knocking your reading comprehension skills.

Kaho definitely working the 2nd & 3rd shift. Pulled into the Genny: (Can't help but wonder how of if that storm affects what they're seeing) Jefferson dropped of the "kids' and are back to work:

Davy - I don't think we're on the same page with life cycle terminology. I.E. the difference between parr and yearlings. I agree wild "little ones" typically need 1-2yrs resident time. Those are commonly called Fingerlings. I.E. from fry to the size of one's finger. They are less than 1 year old. (I believe stocking fingerlings is a reason the CDN experiment failed.) I understand "smolt" as ready to go to the "big water." The stocking program for the lake requires yearlings. Adirondack hatchery raises them for at least a year. Assuming hatch in December these fish are in the 14-16 month of life at stocking. They are in the range of 6-8 inch long and called "spring yearlings." DEC classifies them as "yearling smolts." DEC stocks at mouth of creek (not in pens) so they only get a "taste" of the creek/stream. I don't know whether they take off possibly never to return (being closer to the formally recognized smolt age) or do they stick around the mouth until full smolt age. (Exposed to predators and/or "unsuitable" creek conditions.) Perhaps some of both. (?) I also don't know if that 10% survival rate applies to yearlings or was calculated based on King Fingerlings. I assumed it applies all.

One can't see the forest if one's just staring at just one tree. The "powers that be" changed the strategy a few years ago to look at the entire fishery (I.E. all specie, zones, etc in the forest) based upon the Pred-Prey balance not just on Chinooks everywhere. https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lostockingstrategy.pdf If one disagrees with the strategy (especially those against creek habitat restoration, AS survival there, etc) then by all means contact DEC, USGS, USF&WS, NOAA, OMNR and GLFC and convince them to change it. ________ No need to go to Altmar. They helped develop the strategy along with regions 6, 7, 8 & 9.

finstins - That's one tremendous operation. Well spent tx dollars. Kaho went out again late but must have looked at sky, then hustled back to port. (I certainly would have)

HB - Great distraction! Another example of exaggeration and "alternate reality." I witnessed race from genny to Webster - from Durand in 90's. Boats close to 120 mph. None flipped. Obviously confusing recent Lake of the Ozarks incident. (100+ mph on calm water) Knowledge of North Atlantic or North Sea is lacking. (D-day was postponed due to Force 4 winds. I.E. whitewater with 6 ft waves.) Yes, generally swells but those swells are much more powerful, not to mention tides or huricane events. Ever wonder how the mid-lake buoy stays in olace with 25 ft waves? Anchoring is important per NOAA.. Confusion exists when comparing Alewives with AS regarding thermal effects. Especially yrlngs + 3/4 AS) Size and specie. (8 g vs 80+ g AS) Guess the temp change kills Browns stocking too (?) Lake doesn't "flip" as ponds do. Rather sometimes wind driven upwellings. If "flips" then offshore surface temps would drastically drop, which they don't. Formal records of nearshore temps show temporary 71 to 46F drop, not 80-41F drop. Often knowledge gains can come from Goggle searches from credible sources. Other sources often BS. "haven't caught them in a long time" (?) Guess your post on pg 3 was B.S. or "memory issues" As I've said (on 1st page) "stop half-stepping" and they should "put up or shut up." Bryan - So you want to rebuild a private Hatchery that stocks Browns of all sizes in other waters and thereby be detrimental to other NYS fisheries for lack of fish? Oh boy! "Lake guys" vs "Trib guys!" Here we go again - not tired of losing those battles yet? Davy - I agree that a dedicated "non Half stepping" approach is required. I'm curious as to the effect of competition between Browns and AS. I'd hate to find out the hard way that it has a detrimental effect there especially with all the hard work that went into that budding Brown fishery. I'm in favor of letting the fish decide where they want to go rather than trying to force any one place on them. They may all go to the SR...who knows? I don't see "pollution" a problem as we're not talking millions of fish...only the allotment that already goes in and only for a brief time. Micro-plastics seem to be a much bigger issue than "fish poop." Gald to hear the restoration is paying off. It's paid off just about everywhere attempted.

Interesting - Kaho "burned the midnight oil" Seth took a quick trio southward then returned to port Tours being held on the Jefferson at oswego.

HB obviously didn't read through the links. Hasn't been tried here before.....Atlantic and North Sea much rougher than our lake...much cheaper than a new hatchery... maintains the predator-prey balance. Guessing just another post to whine about(?) rolmops - All Commercial efforts are highly restricted on the lake. No commercial licenses have been issued since 1986 (I understand only one may be left for perch trawling) Technology and methods have evolved considerably since those initial failures out west where the AS are considered invasive. Any pen failure on the East coast is not frowned upon as the AS are wanted there. GLFC and associated agencies want them here too. I don't see increase in pollution or antibiotics as there'd be no increase in stocking allotment; only helping the current allotment survive a little longer and then letting them "do their thing." They ("pens") are now under NOAA and USF&WS auspices. Please remember this is suggested to aid restoration of a native specie as a scientific effort.

Here's another blog from the Jefferson's latest voyage: Sabrina Whitaker – NOAA Teacher at Sea Blog There's a lot more at bottom (widget/icon) of blog.

Brian - Powder Mill (Riedman Foundation) is very small and raises 30,000 fish annually in all stages of life. As said before target for the lake is 200,000.AS (tgt for sandy 50K). You said "damaged fish" come from being raised in concrete raceways and better stock has to be used. No raceway "damage" in a farm. Some have said they won't grow in Sandy due to creek conditions, citing warmth, mud bottom, lack of flow, run-off, stocking survival, etc. I.E. Some say "They'll just die off." My proposal would be to place a small farm nearshore, just to NE of Sandy. (Guessing 20-30FOW) Given the south shore (nearshore) current is west to east, Sandy water flows that direction. This would solve warmth and flow issues. Run-off would be diluted, yet still a component of Sandy water. Stocking survival would increase as fish protected and grow larger thus more capable of withstanding whatever "harsh" conditions fish encounter. I.E. Yearling vs Yearling+3/4. Upon release, they may enter creek (for "trib guys" to catch them as at Powder Mill with March stockings) or they may head to more suitable "grounds" for reproduction. (Hence no need to explore for better spawning grounds) Win-win situation either/both ways. As some fishermen don't agree with and resist the fisheries people, why not let the fish decide? (Bottom-up vs top-down problem solving?) "Google" Atlantic Fish Farms and you'll see sizes range from10s of thousands to millions. The size Sandy target approximately 30 ft diameter. Interesting how they feed them too. I.E. Automatic feeders, like hatcheries, with newer pond feeders being solar powered. Look at the 2 links below for info on Fish farms. Basically just bigger net-pens. _____________ . HB - Thanx for the compliment. (fish farms are not my idea...this application yes) Net pens were pretty "dandy" back in '97-98 when they were 1st attempted here and then took a few years to confirm effectiveness. Net pens tried here after 20+ years of experience with lake stocking. They came from West coast who initiated it in late 60's. Fish farms were invented in Norway (North Sea) well over 100 yrs ago and are now successful worldwide. US fish farms are under NOAA and USF&W auspicies. https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/atlantic-salmon/aquaculture From the CDN side: https://atlanticfishfarmers.com/fish-farm-facts/how-farmed-salmon-grow/ https://atlanticfishfarmers.com/new-research-points-to-a-better-way-to-restore-wild-salmon/

Seth working & DEC "cruising:

Seth Green made a stop (red) and is on the move southward: Kaho still in port.

I agree with Gator on that one. Exactly what I've heard. You don't want Pinks!

Water? Facilities? Someone complained about "damaged" fish from raceways? I didn't pick Sandy and I'm sure the "powers that be" didn't pick it just to pi$$ off a few fishermen.

"Google" Fish farms to see how they work. "Google" Fish farm incidents/escapes to see effects on local tribs.

Jeff back in port: Probably preparing for public tours on 2 Sept. -"Little Cousin" refueled and on trailer in parking lot at Genny - Kaho in port at Oswego - Seth Green in port at the cape - Lake Guardian in port at Milwaukee.

No record of Pinks ever intentionally stocked in Gr Lakes. CNDs wanted to stock them in Hudson Bay back in 1955, so got eggs from out west. They didn't survive at hatchery. Hatchery disposed of few surviving hatchlings/fingerlings down the "toilet" which led to Current River and Lake Superior. In '71, (8 generations later) some were caught in Huron and tribs in Huron have reported catches since. In '85 NYS record Pink caught in Erie. (40 years later a "big" one caught on the SR) . https://northernwilds.com/pink-salmon-an-improbable-tale-in-lake-superior/ https://www.outdoorlife.com/fishing/new-york-pink-salmon-record-rescinded/ Interesting facts: - Only male Pinks develop "hump" at spawning time. - Pinks very prolific. - Pinks hard to differentiate from young Cohos (similar situation AS from Browns) - Greatly expanded Pink populations cited as detrimental to King populations Vancouver to Alaska. - Often advised never to "flush" aquarium fish. Questions: - What are the odds that guy caught the only Pink in Lake Ontario? - Pink caught on SR had "hump." If Nat Repro occurs on SR, has Mother Nature cross bred some with Kings? **** Back to Spawning areas: Why not put the Sandy AS allotment in a small nearshore fish farm off Sandy? Release after 6-9 months and let them determine where they want to go? Srvival instinct pretty strong. They'll enter the creek or stay in lake until spawning or stray a few miles to find successful habitat. E-W. I.E. I-bay or Oak. If they enter the creek, they'd be available for "trib guys" (spawn or not) similar to the historical stocking of Powder Mill. (.E. DEC stocked a week before opening trout season & and crowds appeared. (Did they only stock spawners?) NOTE: Hatchings & fingerlings require time in creek. These would be yearlings plus 6-9 months and wouldn't necessarily require resident time for growth.

Some threads belong in "comics corner" so everyone obviously knows it is joking around.