GAMBLER

The little amount of trout stocked from Powder Mill could be picked up at one of the other hatcheries. Again, I'm not saying to raise all the allotment of Atlantic's at Powder Mill. Raise some of the Atlantics you would be stocking at Powder Mill. This way they would imprint on the creek and return. Letting the fish decide to return when you are trying to restore a native species is not a great way to have success. Almost as dumb of a decision to boil Atlantics in a salmon farm in the lake.... If the project is to restore Atlantic populations, you have to give them the best chance to survive and naturally reproduce. To naturally reproduce, you have to get them to return to a tributary that can support it. If that is not the way the program is going to be ran, it should change to just a stocking program and dump them anywhere and move on. Putting money and resources into a project and not give the species the best chance at succeeding is a waste of time and resources.

Tim, I'm talking about raising the Atlantics just for Irondequoit Creek at Powder Mill. Even the DEC is admitting Sandy isn't a good option. Dave mentioned it in his one post. Put Sandy to bed It's not going to work. I wish it was a viable option but it's not. If the program is about restoring a native species, Fish Farms will not work. Imprinting is important if you want the Atlantics to return home to a fertile trib to have a better chance at survival. Dumping them in the lake, they will roam and try to spawn anywhere. Why have Atlantics return to the Sandy, Genny, Oak, 18 mile ect. that are non-fertile tribs? Raising some Atlantics in a Hatchery on Irondequoit Creek will help imprinting for those fish. Seeing that Atlantics need to stay in the hatchery for the first year of their life, how well would they do in the summer when the lake temp is in the mid to upper 70's? Boiled Atlantic salmon anyone?

Powder mill has water. It has raceways. Plenty of room to raise the small amount of Atlantics to cover the stocking on the creek. It would take contracting out the hatchery and possibly staffing it. Raising them in the lake, they will not imprint on a trib. If they don’t imprint on a fertile trib, they could spawn anywhere. Chances of picking a trib that would support natural reproduction would be slim. That would be even worse than stocking them in the Oak and Sandy.

If Irondequoit Creek is a possible trib for Atlantic natural reproduction, why can't the DEC get Atlantic eggs and contract out the PowderMill Hatchery to raise the Atlantics. This would give the Atlantics a better chance of imprinting on the creek. This would increase the number of fish returning to a more fertile water.

To raise Atlantics by dumping them in a pen in the lake only to release them to go wherever they want, isn't a good restoration strategy. What would they eat? How would you feed them?

Last summer or the summer before there was a big influx of Pinks caught on Erie. Pete Alex caught a bunch throughout the season. He even had multiple fish in a couple of trips. Cool to see. I saw a photo of a pink from the Salmon River last fall too.

I have three used but in decent shape Daiwa 400H reels and 1 Penn Senator reels for sale. $15.00 each or all four for $40.00. Will ship to the lower 48 at buyers expense.

This was when VHS reared its head. The creel limit was 5 and it stayed 5 even though the bass population tanked. Like you, I have seen the rebound which is great to see. My buddy has been catching smallmouth of all sizes off his breakwall on Wautoma the past couple of years.

Dave, Focusing on a sport fishery is putting the cart before the horse. Get the program producing wild fish by stocking tribs that make sense to get more out of the effort and then focus on the Sport fishery. If the stocking of Atlantics is for restoring the population, the priorities of the project are not right IMO. This reminds me of a state of the lake meeting years ago after the smallmouth bass population took a dive. I asked Steve Lapan why the creel limit is still 5 when the population is way down. His answer was "the bass tournament community doesn't want it reduced".

I just can't believe the amount of people losing their minds over something so dumb. It will not change your life. Worry about something important. Life is short, go fishing......

I'll say it again. With alewife as the dominant food source, it's going to be more of the same old issues (this is my number one issue with the Atlantic program). The scientists know this, yet we continue to pump resources and money into the project. Stock them in the best tributaries, fewer tributaries and move on. I would feel the same way with lakers and sturgeon. If the food they were eating in the lake was causing adult mortality and their populations weren't thriving, it's time to move the resources somewhere else in the lake that is more useful. Trying to get lakers and Atlantics to naturally reproduce in huge numbers will take decades of evolving in both species. Stream and spawning rehab projects are great, but Thiamine deficiency is a huge issue and isn't going away anytime soon. Dumping Atlantics in Oak Orchard and Sandy where they have zero percent chance of spawning successfully AND the offspring surviving is ridiculous (this is the other big issue with me on the Atlantic program). Stock them where they have the greatest chance. We stock kings in bigger numbers to increase survival. We spread out the small amount of Atlantics to a couple sites when you could find fewer sites that are more apt to support natural reproduction and SURVIVAL of the offspring. Manage the Atlantics as a tributary species like steelhead. Stock them in tribs that give them the best chances. Make those tributaries the destination tribs for Atlantic salmon. Worry about what is best for restoring Atlantic populations (if that is what this program is truly about) before worrying about a sport fishery for them (like the sturgeon). Stock them in fewer sites giving them better survival in numbers (like they did with the kings when they dropped a couple pen rearing sites). This summer, I participated in the King DNA study on the lake. We also had sampling containers for Atlantics. I was able to sample the only Atlantic we caught this summer. It was the smallest Atlantic I have ever caught on Lake Ontario in 42 years of fishing the lake. It was sampled and released and swam away strong. It is great to see the DEC leaning on Lake and Trib guys to gain data. Over the years, the resource was there and they didn't take advantage of it.

12,700 fish in that year. Let’s not forget the Canadian stockings, and multiple year classes. Atlantics should spawn more than once in their life cycle. The tribs should have way higher numbers than they do for the numbers stocked and multiple years classes of Atlantics. Atlantics are stocked in a handful of tribs on the south shore. If you take your 12,700 survivor number, divide it by the 4 or 5 tribs the stock, we should see way more Atlantics in the tribs.

Dave, I have nothing against Atlantic salmon. They are a cool species and another species to catch. What I’m against is throwing money at a program that is doomed to succeed due to an alewife diet. I look at the Atlantic program like my retirement. I am not for pumping money and resources into a program with such low yields. If the food source in Lake Ontario didn’t cause adult mortality and natural reproduction issues, put more effort into the program. When you can’t target a species stocked with regularity (on both trib and lake), the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I would love to see the numbers shocked in Sandy. They were shocking last fall and the guys that talked with the shocking crew said numbers were not good.

Another shoot from the hip comment. A couple more years of over 100,000 Atlantics stocked. I emailed Chris Legaurd to get the actual numbers stocked back to 1983.

Dave and Tom, In 1983 they stocked roughly 200,000 Atlantics in NY waters of Lake Ontario. Clearly not the first time they ever went over 100,000. Is Tom 100% right? I added a receipt for my shoot from the hip comment below. I’ll dig up yearly numbers when I have a chance. You wouldn’t have to move your boat to Pulaski to salmon fish Lake Ontario. Most know the majority of the salmon migrate from West to East as the season progresses. Most of the kings are imprinted on the Salmon River and return there as it is now. How can you not know this Dave?

So this site is now lakeamericaunited.com?

Dave, Sorry but your stocking numbers are false. According to the DEC website, the target is 200,000 Atlantics stocked. In 2025 they stocked 192,500 Atlantics. Here is the breakdown: South Sandy Creek 40,000 @5.5” south Sandy Creek 10.320 @7.0” Salmon River 30,000 @ 6.0” Salmon River 20,600 @6.5” Salmon River 20,630 &7.0” Sandy Creek 40,000 @5.5” Sandy Creek 10,320 @7.0” Oak Orchard 20,630 @6.5” Just imagine how well kings would survive if we kept them in the hatchery for a year. The sturgeon program is very successful. Numbers are climbing, they are living to adulthood and natural reproduction is up.