GAMBLER

Just the rig alone would be a big seller! I also have access to a big sinker mold and a ton of lead.

I haven't run a stacked rigger in over a decade. Free sliders or fixed cheaters for me. Three riggers with cheaters puts 6 spoons in the zone. Those other two extra rods can be put to good use running 4 divers or two coppers.

I might mess around with this tonight. I will let you know!

We (the water authority) have two intakes for our two plants Tom but we only go by the Temp sensor at the Plant on Dewey Ave. Our intake at the Basket Rd facility is at the same depth and generally runs close to the other plant. Its interesting to watch the temp changes with certain winds. As we all know, NE or East winds bring the cold water in during the summer months. It does the exact opposite during the winter. It is also cool to see how rapidly temp changes when the water densities are different due to water temp. When the water is in the 70's on top and 39 down deep, things change with very little wind. In spring and Fall when temps are in the low 50's or colder, there is very little temp change unless we have big winds.

Hmmm. I have a wire forming tool and all the wire.

It runs on a stocking program by the Michigan DNR and Lake Superior State University.

The St Marys project is the ONLY successful Atlantic project on the great lakes. What is the reason? Lets think about what happened in Lake Huron where the Atlantics grow to reach maturity. Huron had a huge alewife population crash. The biomass in Lake Huron is more diverse than it was 20 years ago. Less alewife = less chances of Thiamine deficiency in Atlantic salmon and better survival.

Shreksoff on this site is the man to answer this question. He runs the Kaho. The info was released last year that the YOY year class was huge. This years has not been released to the public from what I have seen.

I look at each species like investing in the stock market. You put your money in stocks that are going to give you the biggest return for your buck. We stock 240,000 Atlantics (2020 numbers - stocked as spring yearlings) yet the returns are dismal. We stock 325,000 Coho (2020 numbers 235,000 fall fingerlings and 90,000 spring yearlings which survive better than the fall fingerlings)and returns to the Salmon Rover alone are great. This will also be a one dimensional fishery for the most part. Most will end up in the Salmon River only and no where else. Is that what is best for the entire fishery? The DEC keeps pouring money, resources, and bait biomass capacity on a horrible investment return wise. This Atlantic project has been dismal for decades. It has shown signs of slight improvement but not enough to warrant a change. Until they can get Atlantics to be a good investment, leave the program the way it is. In order to add more Atlantics, they will have to cut or not increase king stockings if the bait biomass grows. Why do that when you cant get solid returns? You could cut a successful king stock for a fish that isn't surviving to get a return on your investment.

I agree but, Irondequoit Creek is a way better option than the Oak. Irondequoit Creek holds trout all summer and has tons of water that the Atlantics could not be left alone in. Its funny that we lost pen projects to ensure survival in numbers yet they don't follow the same logic with Atlantics. Another issue is the condition of the stocked Atlantics. I have caught stocked Atlantics in the Salmon River and they look horrible. I have not seen one with perfect fins. Most are deformed (crooked pectoral fins, smashed dorsal fins). They already have enough trouble surviving. They could also focus on a better product. The stocking numbers are close to Coho numbers and we see huge returns of coho year after year. Like you said, Atlantics returns are minimal at best.

If they survived well, I'm all for having more Atlantics. But as I pointed out in the thread on the open lake discussion, Atlantics are greatly affected by Thiamine deficiency (in both fry and adults) and mortality is high. Atlantics will not do well until they have a more diverse diet with less alewife.

I’m pretty sure they are trying to continue the program because the fish are raised in federal hatcheries on their budget not the states.

So because you never have seen an Atlantic die off it isn’t happening? The DEC is saying it happens. More than likely they die before entering the tribs or before even reaching maturity. The other salmonoids are affected but not as much as the Atlantic’s. It was in a slide years ago in the state of the lake meetings when they found out why the steelhead were dying off. They stock close numbers of coho yet the salmon River is LOADED with coho come September. It’s not the lake guys killing all those Atlantic’s. We average about one Atlantic a season on my boat. We average a lot more coho per season.

According to the link originally posted from the DEC, adult mortality due to thiamine deficiency is an issue. Just like the steelhead, Atlantic’s are susceptible to thiamine deficiency killing adults. (The steelhead die off a couple years ago is a perfect example of thiamine deficiency and adult mortality).

The project is more than likely successful due to the alewife crash and a more diverse forage base for the Atlantics. Possibly the reason it took 20 years to be successful.

The St Mary's Atlantic fishery is the ONLY successful Atlantic fishery on the Great Lakes. Why is it successful? The Atlantics live in Lake Huron before migrating up the St Mary's River to spawn. As we all know, Lake Hurons Alewife population crashed. Hmmm.

2700 Atlantic’s caught in Oak Orchard alone 🤣. So are these people questioned able to tell an Atlantic from a brown? Are we counting the same Atlantic caught over and over again in the gauntlet of hundreds of guys in a one mile stretch of the river?

It’s a pipe dream…….. I’ll say it again, they don’t to well on an alewife diet due to thiame deficiency. With the numbers stocked already, we should have great returns (we have small returns that are not great compared to other species). Another thing I have noticed with Atlantic’s, the ones stocked look like hell. I have only caught a couple with perfect fins. Most of their fins are deformed. I went to the Salmon River with my buddy that was a guide to chase early kings one September. We caught a ton of stocker Atlantic’s that looked horrible.