copper or wire ???

[Mike Plotner]

Ok i'm a rookie at the dipsy thing and was hoping you guys could steer me in the right direction. I've been reading alot on here trying to figure out what is best for a rookie that has never run divers before. Whats better for a beginner wire or copper? Can I use one of my 8.5' rods or get something longer . Gander has a 10.5' Diawa heartland for 30 bucks are they any good? they also have wire and copper including a copper set up that has 30' leader 300' copper and 600' of powerpro backing all ready to go. I have a diawa 47lc I will use for my reel. also why the leader with copper why not just snap the copper to the dipsy and run your leader from there. Yes I have lots of rookie ? but would just like to have a better shot at more fish.

Thanks for all the posts they really help out the little guys

Tight lines

Mike

[Rich D]

Mike,

You will not get that cooper setup on a 47lc. Spool that with 1000' of the seven strand, buy the heartland and you have a wire dipsey setup. Start with that first, get that down, then buy a copper setup.

Rich

[Tim Bromund]

Mike, I believe you fish out of Olcott usually, right? I have my boat slipped there. You're more than welcome to come out with us and see all the various rigs and what they do/how they work. I'm a hardcore tackle addict and have just about everything imaginable on the boat. :roll:

The LOTSA Meeting is this evening, are you planning on coming?

Tim

[Mike Plotner]

Tim,

Yes I am planning on coming to the seminar tonight . Thought I could learn some stuff there. Bob was right though I was mixing things together .I thought wire and copper were both dipsy set-ups . So copper is more like running lead core?

[Tim Bromund]

Yes, you run copper the same as core.

See you tonight.

Tim

[Shade]

Wire, wire, wire with dypsys and a 10 1/2 poles. With wire the downside is the weight of the dipsy but i think wire is more versitile. You can run wire 120 back and be about 50 down, 180 back and be 80 down or 200 back and be 90 down. You need 550 feet of copper to get down 100' but only 220 feet of wire for 100 down.

Just my opinion.

[momay4000]

Shade/Mike,

I think Shade is a little "aggressive" on his estimate on wire line depth. First, it's not a linear relationship as you let line out with a wire dipsy. At 220 feet out on a #1 wire dipsy on a #3 setting, you're probably more like 75-80 feet down (maybe less depending on current). Do yourself a favor and purchase the Precision Trolling "Big Water" edition and it will give you all the info. you need on depth. It is well worth the money and it is highly accurate.

Second, Mason or Malin 7 strand wire line comes in several colors, typically smoke color or plain stainless color. I think the color often confuses people when they interchange "copper" and wire line. However, true copper and wire are totally different. Although one of the major advantages of wire line is better depth, especially later in the summer, a HUGE advantage is the "signature" that the line makes in the water. Since it doesn't stretch like mono, it "jerks" the spoons and flasher/flys much different then mono. I think this one of the major advantages to a wire diver presentation. It also has a "hum" in the water which also acts as a fish attractor.

Copper is great, because you can achieve greater depths than leadcore, it also has a stiffer presentation to the lures like wire and most importantly it puts a solitary lure way,way back from your downrigger balls, the boat, divers, etc. Thus when the fish sees this solitary lure hanging way back "on it's own", it just can't resist.

Both of these presentations have their place, but I have to say on most days WIRE divers and copper both consistently put the most fish in the boat.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[Mike Plotner]

Thanks for all the info . looks like I have somewhere to start. Thinking I will load a 47lc with 1000' of wire put it on a 10.5 rod add a dipsy then about 8' of leader and a flasher fly. I see alot of yes and no for a subber . Is it safer to start with one and see what happins . Cash flows a little tight right now so i'd rather loose a fish or 2 then 30 bucks worth of stuff.

thanks Mike

[Shade]

Chris,

Sorry to disagree Chris but wire 220 back with a 41/8" dipsy set at 2.5 running 2.2 - 2.4 you will be down between 95 - 100'. I did a lot of experiments with dipsys and both lead and steel line in Olcott. Lead runs a little deeper, SD/spoons run a little deeper also. I agree currents will have some effect but I am confident in my research. I bought the book and it says 50% plus 5 - 10% and they are right. Which means 200 back is 100 minus 5 - 10% is 90 - 95.

I agree copper is great but 500 - 600 back plus what the fish takes is a lot of realling especially with the traffic on the water. Now if it cought mature Kings well worth the work but for yearlings that ya through back, not.

To each there own. Everyone has there opinion and there own style. I prefer steel but I have 2 rods on copper, one with 450' of 45lb and the other with 600' and I give my son the honors.

Howie

[Mike Plotner]

Has anyone used these 10.5 foot heartland rods before? are they a good chose for 30 bucks . Also should I replace the tip with a twillie right away or not worry about it until the orig wheres out .

Thanks Mike

[salmonite]

we use the 10.5 and they are huge!!! really helps when you are cranking in that much weight (wire plus fish). I like em and for 30 buck you can't go wrong. Go with the twilli tip right off. you are going to buy them anyway

[Tim Bromund]

Mike I have 2 of em for my mono divers, I wanted the extra length so that I could run em as a 2nd diver on a side and not interfere with my 9 1/2' wire or braid divers. I like the heardland rods and have a bunch on the boat.

Tim

[momay4000]

Shade,

It sounds like you have a lot more personal experience with wire line depth with your Dipsy's than me, especially if you have been experimenting with depth on your own boat. However, for us, we typically use the Precision Big Water Edition as a guide for us and I don't think the dive curves go to 100 feet or more of depth even with the O-ring on a #1 Dipsy. We also use a very general rule of thumb that on a #2 setting, size 1 Dipsy WITHOUT O-ring, it's down 45-50 feet at 120 feet out, and about 75-85 feet down at 220 feet out.

In my post above, I'm referring to a #1 Dipsy WITHOUT the O-ring, so although it's commonly referred to as the "4 1/8 inch Dipsy" it's only that size with the O-ring. Nonetheless, the Trolling Guide describes the depths, with or without the ring, mag size dipsy, mag size rings, etc. and since I can't commit depth charts to memory, I use the guide every chance I can.

Perhaps I'm way off myself on wire depth, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has other experience or "rules of thumb" for calculating wire line depth.

-Chris