LongLine

Bac - Exploitation is controled via Creel Limits & Hook/Lure/Bait/Point rules not by the number of rods the Sportsfisherman uses. The proposal does not require any angler on the open waters to use 3 rods. Most avid NYS salmon fishermen realize that the current rules allow two lines with or without rods per angler statewide and 99.9+% of them are totally against gillnets. Tom B. (LongLine)

Bob, The can run two on the big water Tom B. (LongLine)

Merry Christmas to all and a happy New Year. Also to all our guys & gals in uniform. Tom B. (LongLine)

It’s amazing that Gov. Paterson announced his tax increase plan do close to the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. (Dec 16, 1773) History buffs will tell you that the tea tax jumped a whopping penny per pound or 33%. According to Benjamin Franklin (who resisted the tea tax): the average American consumed 10 Lbs per year and averaged 1-2 shillings per day in earnings. (12-24 cents) We all know this is one factor that led to an important event. i.e. The American Revolution. A near 50% increase as the monies will not be used soley for the fishery. Tom B. (LongLine)

Hey Stan - This is just about the only place in the US where the weather is known to stay outside. i.e. Hard to go fishing in a hurricane, fly a kite in a tornado, camp in a midslide. The only problem I have with snow is the 2 ft of it that lousy snowplow put in the end of my driveway after I had it all shoveled out. Tom B. (LongLine) p.s. If anyone wants some free snow, please feel free to help yourself that which is in my driveway. (you pick up)

C35 - The petition site is now part of the sticky. (oops) Tom B. (LongLine)

Rules that apply on to “LINES†are carry overs from fishing methods that was popular in “olden times.†Trolling as far as Sportfishing goes is a much newer method of fishing than “Still†fishing or Fly fishing. (Practical marine engines and recreational fishing boats have only been around for a hundred years or so, but man has been sitting on the bank for a couple thousand years) The rule makers decided to add or modify a couple words of the old rules thinking that they’ll now apply to all modern fishing methods. They should have realized that the rules needed a complete overhaul with defined terminology that applies to the “older†and perhaps a set of rules applying to “modern†fishing methods that won’t lead to loopholes that might allow an unscrupulous fisherman to exploit the fishery with “modern†methods. “Old time†trolling, i.e. before downriggers, dipseys, and planners involved 3 way swivels with or without a snap, attached to the main line in order to gain depth control. (Which BTW is still an effective method of trolling some bodies of water for some species) On one ring/snap went a leader to a lure and the other ring went to a leader and a sinker. Some guys replaced the sinker with a diving lure. This counted as a single line as there was only one “main line.†(Note: In the modern world of trolling, a single line may be comprised of a backing line attached to a lead core line, attached to a mono line and finally attached to a lure or baited hook, hence you could argue a modern main line may be comprised of 3 lines if you go by Webster’s definition of a line.) The key to answering your question about interpretation is to look at the above and at the last few words of the quoted law. What I refer to is the hook restriction. Both NYS & Michigan have a line law PLUS a “Hook†law that are used in unison. NYS has an additional “Point†law per line. In NYS, a “Hook†is that single unit with one or more “pointy†things that some anglers get caught in their fingers. In NYS a hook may have a single point, two points or have treble points. A small Rapala has two hooks in NYS. (6 points) In NYS “each line is limited to not more than five lures or baits or a combination of both, and in addition, each line shall not exceed fifteen hook points in any combination of single, double or treble hooks.†The NYS law applies to the “Still†fisherman as well as the troller in that on the line the Still fisherman is going to throw into the river while sitting on the bank, may have attached to it a sinker at the end, then a pre-snelled single hook above it, then another, then another and still have it all counted as a single line. All his hooks are attached to the main line hence legal up to the number of baits limit and the point limit per line. (Note: he doesn’t need a rod to cast nor retrieve his line. However we think it much more sporting to do so in our “modern experience.) In NYS, the slider is just another lure/bait that is attached to a single main line. Where trollers can get into trouble with sliders is simply if their bottom line is a flatfish that has 4 trebles on it and their slider is that small Rapala with two trebles, they are over the point limit for that line, hence illegal. In Michigan, a “Hook†is the equivalent of an individual artificial bait. I quote: “All hooks attached to an artificial bait or “night crawler harness†are counted as one hook.†What NYS calls a lure is called a Hook in Michigan. You can run 6 lures on those three lines and rods hence the slider which is a very popular way of running a second lure on a main line does not count as a second line. What I find interesting with the Michigan law, as quoted, is the phrase “3 single lines or 3 single rods and lines.†This is an attempt to close a couple loopholes right off the bat. It means one and only one main line may be attached to one rod. I can think of a couple ways multiple main lines can be run with a single rod. What you’ll see, if you read the 3 Rod Rule proposal for NYS discussed in previous threads and sent to the DEC is that there are suggested restrictions & definitions included to put everything above board, get rid of ambiguity and apply only to Trolling. Tom B. (LongLine)

6 NYCRR Part 10, Recreational Fishing. Amendments to regulations pertaining to the management of freshwater sportfish including appropriate adjustments to seasons, creel limits, and size limits. Contact: Shaun Keeler, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Bureau of Fisheries, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233. Telephone: 518-402-8924. E-mail: [email protected] Tom B. (LongLine)

Stinger I have experience fishing Big-O and relatively little on other lakes. Trolling is the premiere method for targeting the Salmon/Trout on the Great Lakes. Perhaps others do, but I just don't have sufficient data or experience to propose it as a general rule statewide or on other bodies of water. NYS rule structure is such that it has general statewide rules but then moreso defining those regs according to location or body of water than it does by method of fishing. Changing that structure would be a monumental task. In Michigan, they probably have the same rule "structure." The 3 Rod Rule was enacted there a couple years ago only on the open water of the Great lakes with some specific restrictions. This year, after a couple yrs of observing results with no detrimental effect, they have opened it up to include all species in those areas. After more observation, will they expand it further in the future to other bodies of water? I don't know, but I hope they expand it every place where it is beneficial. I've "modeled" the proposal, within the rule structure, similar to what they did as I feel it can be supported with some "heavy-duty" data from the DEC's Annual Lake Ontario report and success on Michigan's Great Lakes. I think if they enact the 3 Rod Rule on Big-O then observe its favorable benefit for a little while, it might make the case even stronger for expansion to our "Inland Great Lakes." (I think Seneca, Canandaigua and even Lake Champlain are bigger than anything inside Michigan.) In the meantime, I thank every fisherman for his support. This movement is definitely a big step. Tom B. (LongLine)

Nice fish Stan. Hopefully your lake will come up a bit with the weather you've been getting. Post more pictures & we'll try to send you more weather. Tom B. (LongLine)

Joe, Feel free to use any of the verbiage. The more people and organizations that take a minute or two to send a note, the better. Hopefully, they'll do something with it. I’m kind of thinking this might also be a great topic at the State of The Lake meetings. Tom B. (LongLine)

Maggie Brooks is the County Executive of Monroe County. (My home turf) Tom B. (LongLine)

Mike LeBoeuf is the sports editor of the Palladium Times, which is the Oswego newspaper. Tom B. (LongLine)

Leo Roth is the outdoors writer for the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle: Tom B. (LongLine) edit to change name of thread

Stinger, Please check out the link to the petition. You'll find there's lots more to it than just allowing 3 rods. Tom B. (LongLine)

Welcome LD. Please show Stan how to use photoshop on those fish. ie resize - upward!!! Stan - just playing. Those fish have beautiful colors........................most smolts do. Tom B. (LongLine) really - just playing

Randy, Please go to the link in the other thread to read the petition. Limitations are suggested. There's a lot more to than just "3-rods" Tom B. (LongLine)

There an on line petition in support of the 3-Rod Rule for the NYS open waters of Lake Ontario at: http://www.petitiononline.com/3rrolo/petition.html Please take a moment to visit & sign. Tom B. (LongLine)

Erby - Thanx. Landshark - YES. We need to let the NYSDEC Regional Fisheries Managers know that the stakeholders are very much interested in a 3 rod rule. Anyone - What is the contact info for the Regional Fisheries Managers?????? We need to contact them, just to say "we support it." Tom B. (LongLine) p.s. what the heck is a toivo?

12/5/08 Well, I’ve been conversing via email with the NYSDEC. It’s much too long (even for me)to reiterate here, however the bottom line is that the Lake Ontario Unit Leader will include the matter "in discussions with the DEC Regional Fisheries Managers. If they and Albany show some support for it, they can then talk to sportsmen groups." Obviously it’s not a guarantee but it’s definitely not a flat out rejection. “Every journey starts with a single step†So I guess the next step is to let the RFMs know there is interest in the 3 rod proposal from us stakeholders. Anybody got their email addresses? Tom B. (LongLine) Chad - love the smilies...but where's the question mark and what the heck is a "toivo"?

Looks good. What size bolt did you use for the handles? You may want to consider putting a piece of small diameter tubing (plastic or metal) over the crankbolt shank and maybe a washer between it and the head. Tom B. (LongLine)

The statewide reg specifically limits the number of lines & hook configurations for each line. The lines may be attached to no rods, to one rod and the convention implied by our trolling experience & upbringing is that you obviously have one line on each pole, hence you can only have two poles. Is it physically possible to fish with one line attached to two poles? (yes it is. I've seen it, and I personally thought it took a lot of ingenuity for that guy to come up with one of the dumbest ideas of all time.) Tom B. (LongLine)

The current NYS regs don’t limit rods, rather they allow a single angler anywhere in the state to fish with ten lures/baits in the water. It doesn’t refer only to the Big-O, the Fingers, rivers, or on a boat, the shoreline or in a trib. It's statewide. In my letter to Ms. Diana, I suggest a special regulation for Big-O only that includes a limit on the number of lures/baits that any boat can have in the water. IMO, that is a good move for tightening up what is currently allowable on the open water of Big-O. Tom B. (LongLine)

I don’t think 3 rods would necessarily “add†in the sense you imply. (Maybe I’m reading it wrong). I think it’s biggest effect will be to increase the number of repeat trips that people make to the Big-O and prevent the loss of fishermen. The biggest turn-off for a kid or a guest is to take them fishing and not catch anything. We’ve both heard many times on the radio: “It’s a slow poke today†or “the program’s just not workingâ€, or “no hits-no runs-no errors, but at least the boat’s working fineâ€. When I take my son fishing, you can tell which rod is his: the one with the fish on it. A quote from Pete Grannis -Commissioner (1st page of the reg booklet) IMO, increased odds of catching a trophy will help rekindle interest. The legal limit would stay the same as it is. I don’t know the DEC’s logic behind establishing those limits. But I do know that for every fisherman that gets his legal limit there are a tremendous number of people that don’t even come close. Take a look at any of the lake creel surveys. The average per trip is around one. I know when I come into the launch with pictures of one or two, there’s generally someone who’s been skunked and eagerly asking “how’d you get them.†As far as impact goes, running three rods is no guarantee you’ll catch more fish. The attraction is that you’ll be able to rig it differently than the two you already have out that are not catching anything. A good question to ask the DEC is “what impact would there be on the lake if every fisherman did catch his legal limit every time out?†He’d probably run his 10 ft off a planer board in the middle of July, so I don’t think we have a worry there. :mrgreen: Tom B. (LongLine)

Hopefully they'll see this proposal is indeed Trout/Salmon specific, just as the Michigan one is. Tom B. (LongLine)