chowder

Happy belated Birthday Rod & don't mix beer & refinishing fumes -Andy

With the way you are set up now you might want to try jigging b/c you would need to make some pretty serious purchases in order to get trolling. I have some spinning combos set up for jigging that the kids use and they are are ok( I much prefer a good baitcasting reel but that can wait till after you get a decent sonar unit). Use the closest thing you have to med heavy rod w/ fast action b/c you need to set the hook w/ authority! You will want to spool up w/ 12lb super braid (power pro, spider wire,etc) and then tie on a 7-10' 10-12lb flourocarbon leader. you will want to order some jig heads immediately b/c they are a speciality item and you do not want to be w/ out them.I get 1 1/2 oz heads for 80 FOW+ from Bill Alexander http://www.billysmtolures.com/ and the Gamma Ball Jig 4/0 BN 1 oz for 60-80 FOW from Schuberts & Laketown http://terrystackle.com/cart/index.php? ... 20a&page=7. The lighter the jig you can use the better feel you will have for the strike.You can usually get Zoom super flukes and other plastics at Wally World or Gander, you want some white, some blk/silver, and some chartreuse stuff. W/ out a decent fish finder you will want to work an area that another reliable jigger points you to. I and others have posted some very detailed instructions for this technique, search back and check this out.I think you will find that it is much better to control the boat and make your jig drops w/ out a lot of line angle than to attempt to get to bottom and drift along trying to jig as you go. Although this technique can appear to be simple and easy to pick up, it is not quite that easy. With the right basic equipment , attention to proper technique, and some time you will pick it up and learn to have fun w/ it. As far as trolling goes (and probably the jigging too) best thing to do is get to know some of the guys on here & get a trip on a boat that is set up to troll and check it out.There are a number of qualified guides and charter captains that also would be well worth while spending a few bucks on b/c they could probably save you what you spend 10 times over in poor choices on gear and technology! -Andy

When are you going again? -Andy

Lakers are spawning. DEC is netting lakers off T-Falls for mature eggs or they may even be done.

No comments on the Guillotine heads, don't know anything about them (I try pretty hard to stay away from stores when I'm carrying my wallet) for the past 6 years I've hunted turkey using banged up 1" Rocket aeroheads that I've accumulated from using them for deer, b4 that I used banged up Muzzy's.

Ray's 'trim indicator stop limit' is when Musky's coffee cup slides off the motor cover towards the bow but stops just short of the wheel!

Thanks for the info Jason

Thanks Ray, but I'm only 210 lbs Actually it's real common to zip an arrow thru a turkey's vitals and have it fly away! For one thing a turkey's respiratory system is very different from deer,elk,etc so they can sustain a lot of damage and still breath effectively also, they just don't go into shock like more complex animals (hence the phrase; 'running around like a chicken with it's head cut off') Birds hit in the vitals don't live but ya can't find it (usually) and you often lose the arrow too. Best shot for me is in the lower part of the back, thru the spine & pin it to the ground, but it's tough to get them to hold that pose -Andy

Greg, scrape activity seems normal to me, typical pattern w/ separate dominant & young buck scrapes both interacting w/ the breeding group. Clue me in here on this 'dual rut ' concept though b/c I must be outa the loop on this! -Andy

Nice fish, the pic say's it all. WTG guys -Andy

I've used the 1" Rockets for years w/ no issues & lots of kills. I got the 1 1/8" STs for this year and they are much easier to put together & I can see they will be easier to replace blades on, etc. Thanks everybody for pointing me towards the STs I really think I'm liking them! -Andy

Nice pics, it sure was a super nice day to be out! P.S. I've got the same attachment for my Vex that I see you have in the first pic -Andy

I've taken numerous turkeys over the years w/ both recurves and compounds and have yet to figure out a fool proof way to keep from losing arrows & birds due to pass thru. This is much more of a problem for me when I stalk the birds and draw on them from a kneeling position. I've used 2 different kinds of older generation 'keepers' or arrow stoppers & not real happy w/ either. Back when I was using a recurve a fair amount I lost very few arrows & birds b/c the considerably lower poundage of the bow greatly decreased pass thru but sadly I really just don't have the time anymore to keep up my instinctive archery skills and I basically just use my compound now days. Anybody got something that's really worked well for them w/ a 55lb compound & carbon arrows that's relatively inexpensive? Thanks, -Andy

I'm guessing that the sub population that was confined by the fence became quite inbred over time which eventually led to the expression of recessive genes for whiteness. From looking at the pix these white deer are not genetic albinos (pink eyes,etc) but merely white hided. These deer also seem to exhibit other signs of inbreeding like diminished size, smaller antlers,etc. Just my 2 cents on this interesting subject & thanks for the pics. -Andy

No pain=No gain. You should be proud of yourself and your determination and it will pay off eventually! Great posts this year, keep at it! -Andy

Real nice day but Owasco was super slow. 1 laker & 1 small mouth, went home & mowed some more 4th cutting...

I drained and mothballed the Islander & I'm switching over to the little boat, gonna give Owasco and Skan a go tomorrow (tired of whacking turkeys w/ my bow). I got an open spot in the boat if anybody wants to get out, shoot me a pm. I'll be launching at Emerson Park at the N.end of Owasco. -Andy

Hey Ed, sorry I couldn't get over there the other day! Keep up the good work & we'll get into those big LLs b4 long! -Andy

Glen, I only run Walker Mags for divers & one time I bounced my flasher/fly thru the Zs w/ 360' out in 150 FOW w/ the diver set set @ 1.5, my speed was 2.5 surface, 1.9 @ the ball (depth raider). Now, I've also run thru the same exact spot w/ the same speed on the surface and did not touch bottom. I'm no expert on the mags but I can say for sure that the dive curve really flattens out as you try to get below 150 and the further out to the side you try to get them to go the more variable they seem to run in terms of depth.When I run them at depths I think are about 80-90 down they seem take 2' of wire to get 1' down, but after that the ratio really seems to fall apart. Most of the time I'm trying to get below 100' down I'm out over 300-400 FOW (Cayuga), so it's a little difficult to say where they are. I guess I have to confess that for a long time I really have not thought of my divers as a precision tool. I run them out to where I think they will work on that day and if they don't I just keep changing them, one at a time. I guess this sounds stupid but it does seem to work. -Andy

Vic , you and your family have been in my thoughts and prayers ever since we talked last week. -Andy

Really my only intention was to set the D/D on 3 to get it off to the side for line seperation and a little more depth without running 500-600 feet of copper to get down to 100' or so. Having marked a lot of fish down 90-100' at Seneca last week and having only 300' of copper brought up this issue. I do have riggers, but my dipsey rigs have been outperforming them all year. Two thoughts/questions for you; 1. If the dipsy diver is a hot rod why do you want to pull it and put a copper in it's place? 2. If the diver is hot & rigger is not then shorten the lead behind the rigger weight to 7' & run the same bait you got on the diver. 3. You will have far fewer tangles w/ copper/diver lines if you run the copper w/ a torpedo out on a planer board tow line & get it away from the boat that way. Copper & wire lines close together are an 'accident waiting to happen'.

Copper is used as a stealth presentation, for running baits well back of the rest of your spread with no delivery device (i.e. rigger weight or diver) directly in front of the bait to tip off fussy or inactive fish. A wireline or super braid dipsy diver is an aggressive presentation designed to catch the attention of active fish. Super braid and stainless wire is very thin which, in conjunction with a diver, enables the angler to reach great depths. Copper is very fat and very heavy and requires a large heavy reel (and lots of reeling) to use. If you want to extend the depth range you can reach w/ shorter copper or lead core setups look at the torpedo weights http://www.torpedodivers.com/

An Okuma 55 will hold 450' copper w/ 300yds powerpro backing, so I would guess you might get 300' + backing on the 45? Remember the line guide is relatively small on those Okuma reels and you will have problems getting the backing to copper and copper to leader junctions in and out unless you modify (open up) the line guide. To be perfectly honest w/ you I have not had good luck w/ these reels. I bought a bunch of them 3 years ago for core,copper, rigger, and diver rods because they were relatively inexpensive & had a lot of line capacity and I liked the handle, but several have failed and I've had some problems w/ the drags too. I've got all my copper on Penn reels now and I'm much happier w/ them.

Ray, you're like me at Ag seminars, always willing to be the irreverent jokester who steers people who take everything so seriously back into the reality that we all share! Back to the main thread; My vex has never runout on me b4 I've run out on it! Another thought I'll throw out is I do think you are gonna be able to get an FL18 for a whole lot less $ than some of these newer generation machines and if you will not be doing major, major ice time, the $ might be better off in your pocket (unless they happen to be really deep). I've used my FL18 to successfully target every thing from crappies & gills in 10' ponds to lakers in 110 FOW, and I would have to say that the machine has considerably more unexplored capacity than I as a 'casual' weekend ice fisherman could ever use. Just my 2 cents.

Happy Birthday Sean, see ya on the water maybe if you haven't yanked that fish killing machine of yours! -Andy