Sk8man

The moral of the story is: being a good samaritan doesn't always work There's always at least one yahoo in the crowd Ed.

One of the points that Ray made should not be glossed over because it is at the heart of the State's financial woes and that s the fact that nearly all money taken in by the state is put into the "GENERAL FUND" and then treated as a pinata by the legislators and governor with everyone hitting it with their stick to get money for their short-sighted self-serving projects. All funds should be dedicated for specific use and the general fund used for "overflow" with specific accounting to make sure the funds are used only for their intended use (e.g. Thruway tolls and gasoline taxes go only to improve roads and bridges etc. and launch ramp fees only for maintenance and development of launches, lottery monies only to the schools etc. One of the other outdated things the state does is they don't roll over funds from one year to the next....they get rid of the money each year at the end of the fiscal year by spending it on BS things just to get rid of it instead of responsibly managing it. I saw it happen for over 30 years.

I agree the experience at the Auburn store sucks. I went there for the first time last week and the store is humongous but when I went to check out there was only one person checking people out and there ere about a dozen employees just milling around and doing totally bogus stuff (just pawing at items appearing to be doing something and when I finally checked out there were three employees outside the store milling around and not doing anything. If I were a consultant evaluating the store they would be short some staff after I left for starters. The store is poorly run.

Bigfoot is right and the Empire Pass is worth getting if you do much launching. I used to always be uptight about having the 7$ in my vehicle to pay the charge bcause I oiften forgot about it when the toll things were unmanned in the AM and once I had to give the guy it all in change (from my thruway money)..... I do have to admit I did have a warm fuzzy feeling when I saw the look on his face when he had to count it out

Basically you can do "all of the above" with a rig. The Sutton's are quite speed sensitive and if you're after lakers trolling slowly at 1.5-2.2 seems to work pretty well but they can be caught at higher speeds too and some Sutton's like the #88's will run at high speed and catch good fish if run together (e.g. 5 of them) and not with smaller spoons and they generate some torque too and you can tell when they are at the top of the range by your rod tip (bobs up and down in rhythm). One of the reasons the #44 is popular is because it tolerates speed pretty well. The Finger Lakes Tackle spoons should run fine on rigs but I would be running them together rather than mixed with other stuff if you plan to troll at the upper part of the range and want to get the most out of them. When "prospecting" using a mixture of spoons and sizes can be productive and then change out to all similar size/color spoons that caught fish on one of the rigs (if running more than one). I would recommend ss stranded wire for a main line but it requires a roller tip too. The dacron is OK but has quite a bit of drag in the water...if used go with a heavier sinker (36-40oz. vs. 32 with wire). I tried 50 lb Power Pro braid for rig lines twice and both times it cut off by going over the side of the roller soI gave up on that but some of my friends still use it...but braid sucks in flea season. 30 lb Big Game mono works fine for rig lines...I usually set mine up with 12 ft. intervals so that if a I fish shallow (less than 100 ft.) I can put 5 short leaders on (say 10 ft long) or if I go deep I can set them up for 24 or 36 (three leader) Nice to have options. Although I've used leaders up to 40 ft. without major problems my preference is about 15-18 ft (if winter/cold weather fishing 12 ft.)and if you use 24 ft intervals and your motor conks out they don't tangle together that way. By the way you can troll at just about any speed with rigs if you stay compatible with lure choices but varying your speed is essential. When I'm after rainbows specifically I often run at 2.5-3.2 but I make sure my lures work there and are compatible with the others on that rig. You can also run cowbells or dodgers or even spin docs/flys (best singly) on your rig. I used to run cowbells and peanuts at the bottom with four leader above it but there is a lot of "drag". I've even run dipseys with flasher/fly off mine before. They are very versatile and the most common complaint regarding rigs is that they are "too heavy and you can't feel the fish as well" Try saying that as you hand line in multiple big rainbows or landlocks....it easily dispels that myth There are a number of good rig fishermen on here so maybe they have other ways or additional things to add too.

Most of us have "been there" too Joe.....just gets you ramped up for "next time" when you may end up kicking butt....you never know with this stuff.Good luck Sunday. Les I'm heading out in a few minutes here on Canandaigua but I don't have real high hopes after that last derby here....going after rainbows and browns today.

Hi Ted, That is pretty much where I start of too Ted (Pump station to German Bros then cut across to Thendara). I'll be in my 18 ft Boston Whaler with the 135 Salt Water Merc Optimax (blue writing) I'm hoping for a 5AM or so start maybe see you out there.

At least you got out there....I waited for the wind to lie down but it didn't so I didn't go. Thinking about early tomorrow morning.....funny I almost went right at the time you did but got doing other stuff around home.... Thanks for the info.

43, 35, and 22 for mine ...

Ed, I know you are correct on that as Seneca has both types of fleas big time and I'm keeping the Sea Flee stuff handy and I always take a couple setups of the SF with me as well so I can just switch over to them but I figured it is worth experimenting to see first hand as I switched from12 to thirty and I sure know how the 12 lb worked out ....nothing like having a good fish on and not being able to reel in your line

I've used Blood Run Sea Flee for last season and this one so far and it is very good at keeping the fleas off the main line (30 lb) and in my view better than Flea Flicker because it is round. On the other hand it has a LOT of stretch to it. so I pulled it off two of my downrigger reels and went back to 20 lb Big game on them for this season to compare. The 30 lb Big Game on downriggers seems like rope to me after using 12 lb for all these years even for kings so I went with 20 even though I know it may attract fleas...I can always put the Sea Flee back on them if too bad. Rusty rat you may want to just increase the number of twists in the loop before putting it in the arm of the release it solved most of it for me (some of the"slippage" may be the large amount of stretch in the sea Flee line itself)