Something to consider

[HB2]

Way back in the begining. , kings were raised at both Caladonia and The Salmon river and direct stocked into South shore trribs . The Altmar fish imprinted on the Salmon river .. The Calidonia fish were not imprinted with the exception of some ..

 

The problems we are experiencing now , Aug to staggers,  to return to tribs fish might be mathematical. 

 

Those early  non imprinted fish or strays  that returned  in mass the early years to all the south shore tribs also returned to north shore tribs also and inprinted there 

South shore tribs , with the Salmon river the exception are not Nat reproduction friendly , north shore are very Nat reproduction friendly .

 

Here is where the math plays in . 

 

If a female ran  say the credit river in 1971 and her eggs hatched and 2 females from her made it to the lake and 3 years later those 2 females  hatched 4 females, and 3  years later those 4  hatched 8. Do that 10 times for 30 years. And around the year 2000 that original female legacies close to'  2000 fish ,Year 2000 ,30 years later  was kind of the year  when bad things  started happening  out there . Do that same math up untill now and the numbers are stagering  from that 1 original fish . Like 50k. Now I don't think it's that much but its somewhere . I've seen pics of north shore tribs teaming with masive numbers of returning kings . And currently it is my understanding Canada doesn't stock kings . 

 

If any of the above is close to what is happening , it sure would explain a lot . DEC says up to half the kings are Nat reproduction. And the Salmon river ain't producing that  .Also after Aug When bad winds push the kings offshore , there is no reason for those fish to head south again  . And the biggest kings the last 10 years are caught in Canada. 

 

If any of this is even close to true , how do you fix it ? I  don't think you can .  Originally , those North shore tribs weren't a factor . Now they can be big time , and getting  worse . 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2025 by HB2

[GAMBLER]

16 hours ago, HB2 said:

Way back in the begining. , kings were raised at both Caladonia and The Salmon river and direct stocked into South shore trribs . The Altmar fish imprinted on the Salmon river .. The Calidonia fish were not imprinted with the exception of some ..

 

The problems we are experiencing now , Aug to staggers,  to return to tribs fish might be mathematical. 

 

Those early  non imprinted fish or strays  that returned  in mass the early years to all the south shore tribs also returned to north shore tribs also and inprinted there 

South shore tribs , with the Salmon river the exception are not Nat reproduction friendly , north shore are very Nat reproduction friendly .

 

Here is where the math plays in . 

 

If a female ran  say the credit river in 1971 and her eggs hatched and 2 females from her made it to the lake and 3 years later those 2 females  hatched 4 females, and 3  years later those 4  hatched 8. Do that 10 times for 30 years. And around the year 2000 that original female legacies close to'  2000 fish ,Year 2000 ,30 years later  was kind of the year  when bad things  started happening  out there . Do that same math up untill now and the numbers are stagering  from that 1 original fish . Like 50k. Now I don't think it's that much but its somewhere . I've seen pics of north shore tribs teaming with masive numbers of returning kings . And currently it is my understanding Canada doesn't stock kings . 

 

If any of the above is close to what is happening , it sure would explain a lot . DEC says up to half the kings are Nat reproduction. And the Salmon river ain't producing that  .Also after Aug When bad winds push the kings offshore , there is no reason for those fish to head south again  . And the biggest kings the last 10 years are caught in Canada. 

 

If any of this is even close to true , how do you fix it ? I  don't think you can .  Originally , those North shore tribs weren't a factor . Now they can be big time , and getting  worse . 

 

 

You are forgetting a lot of variables.  Natural reproduction and a huge allotment of kings stocked in the Salmon River to insure returns for broodstock.  There are tons of variables in this and no one knows exactly which one is the biggest driver.  Look at the Garnaska on the North shore.  NO stocking and huge returns of wild kings.  A side note, the Garnaska is also closed to fishing during the salmon run. 

[HB2]

What are the problems we are experiencing? 

 

1. After Aug 1 the lack of a concentration of kings inshore when the mid summer fishery was great 

 

2  Kings don't seem to stage in front of creek mouth like they use to . Why ? Maybe because a lot of those fish are Canadian stream fish that start to migrate back north after Aug 1 

 

3 Poor returns to South shore tribs , including the Salmon river . I know there are reduced king stocking numbers but the returns some years , even to the Salmon are not nearly what they use to be . Even when we have great lake years like 2 years ago . 

 

I'm fully aware of Salmon river imprinted fish stocks to assure a good return for Salmon river stakeholders and egg take . ( Maybe that's why DEC is against another hatchery for kings , to make sure ) .  And they add to the 50% , but not all of it . 

 

If the Canadians are not stocking kings , and their streams are now full of kings , and seemingly getting more each year , where did they come from ? If half of the kings are Nat reproduction , that is a big number . This 50 % number has only been discussed the last 10 years or so from my perspective.Do the DEC stocking numbers reflect the Canadian Nat reproduction kings each year? 

 

If my theory is even somewhat right . It sure would explain a lot . 

If Those Canadian stream  Nat reproduced fish numbers grow , and DEC is aware of this , and  doesn't want to overstock to balance prey baitfish , this is not good for South shore anglers . And the problem may get worse . 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2025 by HB2

[whaler1]

Something to Consider

At its lowest we are blessed to have the fishery that we do. At its lowest we are blessed to have the hunting opportunities that we do. 
$120 for a year of opportunities is a real bargain. Anything better is a bonus. 
 

[LongLine]

Natural Repro does occur however 50% is given as a nominal number.  It varies between 24 and 82% according to the 2009 DEC SR report on 3 yr old's.  WHY the variation?  Because Kings require a lot of exposure to dissolved oxygen (DO) to survive.  There's a big DO difference between 42F and 52F water.  High flow exposes them to more DO. When flow is low then so is Nat Repro.

 

Nat Repro occurs on the Credit River and the SR. (West end and East end of the lake respectively.) Look at their respective yearly precipitations, especially in the winter compared to Sandy Creek.   The Credit & SR have had years of being buried in snow, hence very high winter/spring flows. Rochester has the same situation as Sandy but the Genny drainage basin is much larger so it's flow can be very high. This year, Nat Repro on the SR may be very low. 
  
The Canadiens have been stocking Kings in the Lake, although not the numbers that DEC has.  They've been stocking between 200k and 320K for the last 15 years or so. On the west end, DEC has stocked the Lower Niagara and Eighteen Mile.  The Canadiens have been pen rearing between 50-70K at Port Dalhouise. (Just a couple miles west of the Niagara.) An interesting difference in pen rearing is that the DEC targets 2-3 weeks in pens whereas the Canadiens target 4-6 weeks in the pens. Another point of interest is that on the SR, Kings are direct stocked at the lighthouse.