jekyll

Welcome. Great boat you have there. I just sold my 185 Tournament Sport. I miss it already even though I haven’t used it much in the last 3 years. I kept the bow canvas on while on Lake O to shed water.

Spoonfed: We seem to agree on many points. I said short copper and down the chute. I also said it is my risk and that I can't expect others to stay clear. I don't run my boards out to the limit to stake a claim to the lake. I sometimes park them above my dipsies and run one 300 copper down the chute. The boards provide a reminder to others that I have something back there and provide a lateral reference. A 300 copper sticks back about as much as a dipsy. My 300 is in the chute where I can instantly grab it and reel it in if needed. I don't run copper if the boat traffic is heavy. If someone is close enough to take out a 300 down the chute, they will be taking out my dipsies as well. I don't think 350 feet (115 yards or so) behind a boat is excessive. Most people are running dipsies so they should be expecting everyone else to have them out as well. Seems that common sense has been exercised. I would never recommend anyone come charging through the pack with big boards festooned with a plethora of long-line junk. Running a single, short copper down the chute as I discussed is a far different issue. There is no real difference between running a 300 copper down the chute and running 2 dipsies back 350 feet. The copper will be running in the water between the dipsies without extending behind them. Perhaps my original post was unclear. I didn’t mean to imply I “run out my big boards†to the limit of the reel capacity rather, I meant to convey I deploy them, i.e. put them in the water. Like I said above, I don’t run them out very far. I’m not a fan of running long lines off big boards in close quarters.

Been fishing for nary 50 years and hadn't done that until... 2 weeks ago. A buddy was fishing with my wife and I and he picked a slider rigged spoon up from the deck and didn't know he was standing on the line. He sunk it past the barb in the pad of his index finger when the line tightened. I sat him down and went to work wuth my pliers. It came out ok. Less than an hour later, I was tossing a flasher/fly over the side and the line caught something and I buried the hook to the bone, past the barb, in my index finger. My very recent surgical experience came in handy. I didn't even sit down as I took the pliers to my mistake. I pushed it away from the barb and then slipped it out. My wife had just upgraded our first aid kit the day before. Maybe it was her fault.

Weren't you with me when my 600 copper dissapeared?

To answer one of your questions, in a Walgreen world, we would all be able to run copper without fear of someone stepping on it. In our world, you run copper in the pack at your own peril - you are responsible for your own copper. I had a guy run directly up my baffles to within 100 feet of me last year. It happened so fast, I couldn't do anything but start pulling rigs. I couldnt turn away without taking out another boat's rigs. He took my copper and a dipsy. When it was over with, I had my balls at the surface and my remaining dipsy up while I was running above the other boat's rigs. Luckily I knew the boat in front of me and could radio him that I was clear of his lines. The jerk that ran me down has a bad reputation on the East end. When the salmon start staging, a 300 copper is a good tool.It runs about 66 feet down while a 400 runs about 88 feet or so. You can run a 400 off the chute with only 300 feet out. I like running it down the chute when in the pack because I can pull it in very quickly. If it is on the big board, I need to bring it in from the board before I can reel it in. As Gambler said, if you see boards, you should know the guy is running copper but, not everyone is that savey, observant or courteous. I'm always looking for boards on other boats as an indicator of long lines. I sometimes run out my big boards as decoys in the pack and then run my copper down the chute. The boards warn other boats I have copper out but, it is off the chute for protection. Running copper in the pack requires constant vigilance; it adds to the risk and stress especially when you have idiots runing accross the race track.

If I read your post correctly, you are running your probe on a center rigger? Pancakes can be difficult in this position. They work OK on outside riggers because you can bend the fin and get definate spread out and away. Chowders recommendation is the way I would go if I was bying balls from scratch. I have my center probe on a 15 Shark and outdowns on 15 torpedos. I've cycled through round balls, semi round balls, pancakes and finally to torpedos. I feel like a born-again troller.

Mark: Most of us fish without the Cannon depth sensor. We fish with rigger counters. You have a good idea of blow back after running the cannon for several seasons. I would just use it with the line counter and add the amount you recall from previous seasons for the blow back. I used a cannon for a season and learned that blowback resulted in my balls being about 10-15 feet higher than the counter showed at 90 feet as a result of blow back. At rest, the counter and depth readings were fairly close. I've learned to add about 10 to 15% to my counter readout when below 70 feet to calculate my actual depth. This would vary depending on the accuracy of your counters, the weight and shape of your balls and your trolling speed. I have checked this by bottom bouncing both intentionally and accidentaly. I know you have accidentally hit the bottom before Are you still using the cable I fronted you?

12 pound fish shape should be ok in August. The big salmon are in shallower staging for the migration and most fishing will be 80 down or less and they seem to like slower trolls at that time. 8 pound rounds will take a lot of cable to get down where the kings are earlier in the year if you are fishing the east end of the lake. If you want to buy new balls, the 13 lb torpedos sold by AT-TOM-MIK are great. As others have said, they run true and have low drag. I run15 lb torpedos and love them. Some older riggers might squack at 15 lb.

Isn't it nice to have a wife you can share this with? My wife loves to fish and it makes the Lake time that much better.

Talora rods seem to pop when storms are near. First time I noticed this was when a storm was 10 miles away. I heard a snapping sound coming from my rocket launcher and reached for a Talora and bam. I got quite a surprise. I've heard it from the antenna on a protable radio sitting on the dash. Static was arching from the antenna to the window frame. This was the first indication of a coming storm. This warning gave me enough time to run into the Salmon River and anchor before a real dandy of a storm hit.

Depends. Stop when you have the entire copper in the water with the backing knot at the surface and you have the rated depth. Continue to run out backing and the copper will run deeper. I don't know of any depth charts or rules-of-thumb for added depth with added backing. I use a 450 and run it with the backing knot at the surface when I want it around 100 feet deep. If I think the fish are deeper, I send out 10 passes (1-way) of backing on my Takota. I think this gets me down to around where a 500 runs, 110 feet but, I can't be exactly sure. As to rods, longer rods are good if you run copper down the chute. This gives added reach when clearing the chute for fish on other rods. Shorter rods are easier to fight fish with or retrieve due to less leverage at the tip of the rod and work great when runing on big boards. Anyone know of a resource to determine added depth for added backing?

Good job Chris. What was your standing?

I was in Jon's last weekend and saw his offerings - he has 19 different styles of Jitter flies. I recalled this thread and asked if he would sell over the phone and ship them and he said "sure".

Inexpensive motel in Mexico Bay? Seems like Sticks Sportsbar and Motel In New Haven is just the ticket. Mikey "Sticks" is a fisherman catering to fishermen. Mike and Bobby will make you feel at home. Sticks is 10 minutes from Mexico Point boat launch and 5 minutes from Catfish Creek. They don't mind trailered boats being left at thier place during the week. They have very good rates and can give you fishing information to boot. I send all my ride alongs there and stay there myself during the river run seasons after I close up my camp. http://stickssportsbar.com/

I use big boards for copper as well. Church walleye boards seem to park a 400 over my dipsies which creates tangles when fish rise up into the copper. Church TX-44 boards ($35) are bigger and I suspect they will take a 400 to the outside of your dipsies. I have one but, it is still in the package. If you have enough backing, you can run the walleye boards 100 yards back. Combined with mag dipsies, this should give you clearance at the expense of a lot of line out.

For every fish I see on the gragh and then catch, I catch 4 sight unseen. A 6 or 12 degree cone doesn't help one understand the fish coming in from the sides that are in temp or those to the sides where your dipsies and boards are running. Knowing the temp helps you understand if you are seeing bass or trout, kings, lakers, steelhead or sheepshead. You can then select your depth, speed and tackle accordingly. I would take a speed and temp unit over a graph most any day. Filled a box on kings 2 weeks ago on a buddies boat without a working graph. We put the riggs in the temp zone using his Sub Troll and everything fired.

Flashers are made to spin continuously so a second swivel doesn't hurt. Fleas can clog up a swivel and stop it from turning. This can destroy your line in minutes if it happens. No need for flouro in front of the flasher. It is not a stealthy presentation - it is a whirling dervish. Tie a good snap swivel with a positive lock (or corkscrew) to the end of your mono and connect directly to the flasher. As to your flies, most guys tie a simple overhand knot with a 2 or 3 inch loop. Put the loop through the flasher eye or coast lock clip and then the fly through the loop.

I always made a corn paste from a can of corn and corn flakes. Mix the water and some of the corn into the corn flakes to make a gooey paste. Then make a ball the size of a nickle around a hook. Use a slip sinker so the fish can swim with the hook for a ways. Set the hook and hold on. I take a second can of corn and punch several holes in the sides and put it in the water as a scent bag. You can use a slip bobber above to help identify bites. Baring that, bows and arrows work wonders.

JeffM: Suggest you pass on this advice and do your own research. All the current units are good products. They all do about the same thing with some different technologies but, with significantly different prices. Each system has weak points and strong points which must be considered prior to purchase and understood after the purchase. I've used them all and while, I would spend my money one way, I would be happy with most if I were to buy a boat with an installed unit.

This is true for 30 lb Braid. The dive curves for 30 lb braid and 30 lb wire are nearly identical. This does not hold for 80 lb braid which is 55% larger in diameter and thus, has more drag and reduced depth.

Danno: IIR, the temp break started at around 105 with a 10 degree change by 115 down. We found 52 degree water about 115 and 44 degrees at about 135. I've slept several times since then and may be off a bit but, these numbers are close. We ran our rigs in this zone while ensuring we maintained colder water below. In other words, we stayed outside of the thermocline/ bottom convergence zone. This is in Mexico Bay. Further West towards Oswego, the colder water is higher. We had 39 degree water at 90 feet at one point, just before we anchored the mag dipsy. Did you get your speed and temp system installed?

One of the most important pieces of equipment is a down speed and temp sonsor. Look up Depth Raider, Moore Sub Troll, Cannon Speed and Temp and Fish Hawk X4. I would rather fish without a fishfinder and one rod per angler than without a Down speed and temp unit. Lots of information in the archives, use the search function.

Yes, the fleas are in but, not yet too heavy. The flies are a pain as well.

Fishing Report Your Name / Boat Name: Dapper Dan ============== TRIP OVERVIEW ============== Date(s): 16 and 17 July Time on Water: Weather/Temp: Hot, sunny Wind Speed/Direction: Waves: Surface Temp: 45 to 52 degrees on the ball Location: LAT/LONG (GPS Cords): =============== FISHING RESULTS =============== Total Hits: about 48 Total Boated: about 35 Species Breakdown: 20 mature kings, 2 steelhead, 2 browns, 1 nice Atlantic, assorted lakers and skippies Hot Lure: Green e-chip with white glow tape and silver tape, sweet pea fly Trolling Speed: Down Speed: 2.0 to 2.6 Boat Depth: 130 to 160 Lure Depth: 90 to 135 ==================== SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS ==================== Fished with my wife and Little Boat and we had another great weekend. Saturday morning was great with us boating 9 for 13 adult kings, a steelhead and a brown along with an assortment of skippies and lakers. We fished Mexico bay north of Catfish Creek to the high rocks in 130 to 150 fow. This was a rigger and 600 copper day. #1 dipsies didn’t do anything except take several hit and runs (dispies were set beyond 350 feet. We took 2 kings on spoons, a Moonshine Flounder Pounder and a Stingray Gator and the rest came on F/F. Riggers were firing well between 115 and 130 down using 15 lb torpedoes. Talked with several guys running 10 and 12 lb round balls who were skunked. I can only image the fish swimming around in 120 fow and watching 10 lb balls going overhead like satellites making orbits. You must get deep and be mindful of blowback. We spend the morning inside of the pack, most of the time no boats were shallower than us. Saturday night we took out several guys who had been skunked for 3 days to get some fish for them. We did 5 for 6 on large kings. This time, I switched to mag dipsies and they came alive at 350 and 375 feet set on #2. SD and chips were working about equally well. I was happy to turn their 3-day trip into a success at the end. I seemed to have been my own worst enemy because of several radio calls I made on Saturday seemed to draw a crowd. Saturday found the fleet in the water I had worked the day before. We ended up getting pushed off our intended area. We still managed to do 10 for 15 and boxed 5 adult kings between the 2 of us. I had trouble keeping big fish on the hooks and dropped 4 mature kings. Little Boat seemed to get solid hooks while my turn found weak hook ups. I guess that is a risk in fishing. The first fish I landed was a 5 lb steelie that died on the 600 copper before I got it to the net. Sunday evening we moved west and fished from the smoker to Oswego. The first fish was a 14.5 lb, 33 inch Atlantic which hit my center rigger at 115 feet over 140 fow on a green chip with a sweet pea fly. We caught it off the Bible College in about 140 fow. This was the first on a double which saw a nice brown come on the 600 copper on a nuclear green SD and a glow hammer fly. After this, we accidentally anchored the boat by snagging the bottom with a mag dipsy set on 2 at 250 feet in 90 fow. That SNAFU cost me the 150 of wire and the entire dipsy rig. We got set up again after about 30 minutes and only managed another 2 fish before we pulled gear. Monday morning was a blow-off due to a severe T-storm front moving across the lake. Here is a picture of the Atlantic. I took measurements for a body cast mount in the future. Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The old style or new style? The old style worked OK but had a very corny probe attachment method. Cannon thinks they fixed it .I have no experience with the new system but, I lost 2 probes using the old style. I really liked the depth sensor. I learned more about blow back using the Cannon in one season than all my other seasons combined. Put your ball down to 100 feet and see the depth read out at 80 feet. Speed up and watch it climb up 10 feet. You can interpret the same thing using other probes byut you don't know the exact depth you are running. My fishing cohorts who have not used the Cannon probe get very nervous when thier cable counters get within a few feet of the bottom. I'm much more comfortable running close to the bottom after using the Cannon probe and learning exactly how much blow back and speed effects actual depth.