jekyll

What kind of balls are you using and what type of releases were you using; how did you connect them? I think Gil had only half of the story. I agree a Blacks release shouldn't effect ball tracking, however; switching from a pinch pad or Scottie release attached to the back of a directional wieght can make a huge difference when switching to a Blacks. Pinch pad and Scottie releases connected to the balls act as a big kite tail which significantly affects a ball's track. If you have set up bent fins to track with Scottie releases and then switch to Blacks releases, you may have big problems.

I haven't experienced that at all. You might have your answer. I always let them out fairly slowly. I let out 2/3 of the copper fairly briskly then attach the DB. I then usually set the rod in a chute holder and let the drag work it out like a dipsy to keep things going smoothly. I want them running normally when I attach them to boards. Dive bombs change the angle the copper runs so, you need to think about the hydraulics and how they run or you can cross up other lines. I switch to mag dipsies when using dive bombs off boards to ensure they clear the dipsies as they cross over.

Use your 800 Tekota with 400 or 450 feet of copper and add dive bombs. 400 with a 4oz bomb will get you to 500 territory and 450 copper with the 4oz bomb will get you to 600 territory. Dive bombs are cheep and add flexibility to shorter coppers. Tekotas are much better than the Penn 345's and, you have one. Tekota 800 will hold 300 yards of PP backing and 400 CU. A bit less backing with the 450 CU. I find my 600 stays dry most of the time while my 300 - 450 coppers stay wet with dive bombs. The fish don't know the difference but, your arm will certainly recognize the difference.

Here's a link for you with directions and a picture. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24800&p=142955#p142955

Coated cable - use a Walker Clincher release. Need to modify by drilling out the rivet that holds the ball swivel clip and install a stainless steel bolt and self locking nut. Search the archives and you will find several threads with pictures and directions. Works great and provides a great signal up the cable.

I wouldn't worry about line size for browns; 30 lb is fine because you'll be stepping way down with a flourocarbon leader. I use about 8 feet of 10 or 12 pound flourocarbon. You can use longer leaders if you are uncomfortable with heavier line. I haven't found the browns to be shy of a heavy main line. Lots of guys have dedicated brown sets but, that comes with time and money. As you are just gearing up, I recommend you spool up for the kings and leader-down for browns. I might recommend spooling with 25 lb Big Game. It is thinner than 30# meaning you can get more on the 47's, which don't hold a lot of thick mono. I don't seem to collect more fleas with 25 versus 30#. Black dipsies, size #1 with ring. 13 lb torpedo wieghts if your riggers can handle them.

The rubber band method works great but it takes some tweaking to get the right size rubber band and connection method. Each type of rig pulls differetly and thus requires a different size or connection. There is a big difference between a spoon on a 300 copper and a flasher on a 600 copper. A light load requires a lighter band or put only one loop of a heavier band through the shower ring. Heavier loads may need two loops through the shower ring in order to hold against wave surge. You'll know your bands are too heavy when a 20 king becomes a shaker.

Full reels work better. The 30D's can hold a lot of line. IIR, I have several hundred yards of 30# Big Game under 1000 feet of wire. I had several big guys get well into the backing last year including an LOC placed king.

Metal shower curtain rings and rubber bands.

Great boat. I own one. Nice big, flat fishing deck. Easily handles 6 foot waves.

Spros.

Jon: Thanks for the tournament and your hard work. Not only is your's the only tournament I fish but, I buy a lot tackle at your store as a result. Notice the big net is gone? All the other teams appreciate you enforcing the rules. Jekyll

I'm a salmon catcher, not a salmon eater (I might eat 2 servings a year); I do love it smoked though. I give lots of fresh, frozen salmon to friends, neighbors and work mates. To a person, everyone says Lake O salmon is the best they have eaten, bar none. It doesn't seem to matter if I give them nice orange, summer fillets or pale, river fillets. They all beg for more. I will say I don't keep river zombies, only fiesty green fish. I've learned that when properly smoked, I cant taste a difference between lake fish or river fish. Brine and smoke are great equalizers. Of the various strains of Lake trout, the orange fin variety seem to be more favored for the table. The white fin variety are oilier. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CEwQ9QEwCQ

I'm sitting here with a bandage on my arm as a result of being caught and landed Tuesday morning on the Salmon River. I was walking behind another fisherman when he momentarily hooked up on a salmon. He set the hook and the fish ran, popping the hook out. It rebounded in to me in an instant and sunk to the straight part of the shank in my upper arm. My buddy had to cut it out of my arm. 2 hooks in me within 2 months. Sort of blew my 50-year safety streak right out the window.

I started using them this season on copper and cores. I run about 100 feet of copper or lead out and add the bomb. I haven't seen really good depth references or charts but the consensus seems to run from 5-8 feet down per ounce. Guys on Michigan seem to abhore long coppers and cores and opt instead for shorter lenghts with bombs or torpedoes. I will be experimenting much more next year with a 300 and 400 coppers and dive bombs versus 500 and 600 coppers. I did well last month with a 2 oz bomb on 400 copper and a 4 oz bomb on 300 copper when targeting fish in the 90 to 125 foot zone.

Snapping mid leaders on dipsies can happen if your line gets twisted around the dipsy by letting it fall back without sufficient tension. Make sure it goes back with a bend in the rod while letting it out using the drag (not your thumb). I use Opti snubbers and 30# copolymer for my dispy-to-flasher mid leaders. It has been years since I had a fish break off a flasher. Your knot is appropriate and should hold if tied correctly. Sans snubber, use 40# mono. Cohos eat flies. they do really absurd things when they fight. I had one turn an A-TOM-MIK tournament fly into a 1 inch ball that I had to cut apart and retie.

I had bad luck with Blue Diamond rods this summer. While I like the triangular fore-grips, both rods failed. I added 2 Okuma rod/reel combos of Blue D. rods and Convector 30D reels(rods are rigger rods and reels were used on Dipsies). Both rods needed to be replaced under warrantee after the first month. First one broke popping a release. The second rod lost a gold eye insert. Loosing eye inserts was an old problem suppossedly fixed last year but, mine were new in June and ..... One of the Convectors is being replaced because the line counter skips. At least Okuma replaces them without hassel except for a long return wait. I shouldn't have needed to return 3 out of 4 pieces in 2 months. I also bought 2 Okuma Classic Pro rods which have the same triangular fore grip as the Blue Diamonds. I actually like these better than the Blue D. and they are $20 cheeper. My dealer will ask Okuma to replace the second Blue D rod with a comparable Classic Pro. It should be a win/win for both Okuma and me. Never had problems with Heartland rods (as long as nobody steps on them).

How do we go about collecting our bounty? I placed 13th in salmon division using a BW fly.

Walker clincher release works well. Drill out the rivet holding the snap swivel and add a stainless screw and lock nut. Strip off the last inch of coating and secure the bare cable under the nut. This yields a blacks style release above the probe which also allows you to remove the probe. Do a search on Walker Clincher and you should find some pics on the forum.

SpiKe: Glad to hear you found some.

Mr. Nigglesworth (I chuckle every time I read that name, I like it): I'm currious as to the reel on on your rod; does it lock? Getting deep can be costly by buying riggers, dispies, lead core, copper or a thumper. Luckily, you can find steelhead, coho and walleye up higher with some regularity. Even a Zebco reel can be used if that is what you have. Without adding a bunch of equipment, you might think about using snap wieghts and appropriate lures. Go to a good tackle shop and ask them to help you with selection. Ensure you mention your normal cruising speed so they can match lure styles to your speed. Different lure styles and wieghts have specific speed ranges. Knowing your cruising speed will help the proprieter. As others have said, good luck and please come back and tell us how you make out.

Convector 30D willl hold much more than 1000 feet of wire so, I added mono backing to fill the reels.

I caught a 4 or 5 pound skippie last month that had the cheater spoon from 1 rod in its mouth and the cheater spoon from the other rigger in its tail. It had leader wrapped all around it. Looked like it had put itself to an old fashioned medieval rack. Single rod doubles are interesting. We did 2 in one morning last month. I was fishing alone for browns with 2 cheated riggers 3 years ago. I did a quad at the same time on the 2 rods. I put the lightest rod in a holder and brought in the heaviest first. Got the second rod near the boat and the main lure fish dropped but, I watched a 5th fish run up and smack the lure. Does that count as a 1-man five'er? Fighting 2 fish together seems tricky but, they actually fight themselves just as much as they fight you. It is a very confusing bout of jerky pulses. Do it a few times and you can tell you have 2 on at once.

Oh yeah, 8 plus footers that day.

Ducky: Sounds like this is your first experience with a probe? Welcome to the world of "confusion". I say that with a smile. The more speed references you have, the more speed choices you have. If you liked running at 2.5 on the GPS, you can now choose to run at 2.5 off the ball. The reality is that your GPS and probe will rarely tell you the same thing. They are not calibrated to a common standard. In fact, probes aren't calibrated to any standard that I'm aware of. So, if you were in absolutely calm water, your speeds would likely be different. What your probe does for you is to give you repeatability at the lures in any direction you troll regardless of how the wind and surface currents are affecting your boat. You need to do some 'sperimenting' to determine the speeds the fish like in reference to your new probe. I can tell you 2.2 is good on my probe but, if our boats were lashed together, your probe might say we were travelling anywhere from 1.8 to 2.5 while I maintained 2.2. It is not uncommon for a .5 to 1.5 difference between the probe and GPS. If your balls are not showing on the graph when they once were, you are going faster. If you were catching fish at 2.5 to 2.8 on the GPS, I suggest you see what that translates on your probe and start there as the beginning speed point in your experimentation.