HB2

What the heck do lake trout have to do with this ? Isn't the discussion about Sandy spawning habitat ? Am I to understand that what is being suggested is to reroute the entire Sandy Creek watershed for a fish? Thats freaking insanity . A literal fortune for something that could actually ruin what we now have .Could be an ecological nightmare for fishing and agriculture . Absolutely no foresight on that proposal . That's why building codes were legislated ? What's that supposed to mean ? Check me out . I'm as good as there is in this area at what I do . My people love me . It's true . And yes , I sure do make it look good .

When I walk through a house with clients to make design and material selection, etc , I tell people what an old time builder told me , put your money where you can see it . In other words , put your money where you get the most from it . In our Fishery , Atlantic Salmon ain't it . We should be pushing for a new hatchery . And my tallys 2 years ago A few lake caught 3 or 4 trib caught Last year 10 lake caught ( my son kept tally ) 1 trib caught . This year Maybe 5 lake caught so far 3 spring LOC And they were good size .

Stocked a bunch of Atlantic's a few years Dismal returns consistently Project is a failure Scrap it , cut losses Reallocate money and resources to proven or next endeavor . Pretty simple Next ..... That's how it's done

I grew up playing , swimming , fishing , hunting , trapping in Sandy creek . A short walk from my house . I live a stones throw from the head waters now. Run through my brother's property When DEC asked to put pens at my cottage of course I said yes . Put some of my own materials in them to . Put a lot of work into it . So when I hear one of those 70s cliche woke DEI indoctrination , " if you aren't part of the solution , you are part of the problem " in a pompous , elitist way , it kind of grinds my gears . This whole thing was drawn up, probably from pressure from the fly community ( no disrespect meant ) by higher ups that thought ," well if you do this it will work " . Or from my point of view , " it looks good on paper " .I was all good with it ,really hoped it worked . I know the fly guys wanted it .it would have been nice . So what is the problem now ? As I see it those in charge are not paying attention to the science they always tout . Sandy runs hot in summer Why ? Because it's supposed to run hot . It always has and always will . If Fed funds are available , build a new hatchery . More trout , maybe some walleye . Money better spent . How much money do we throw at this ? And find out it still doesn't work. Exactly Brian about crazy , someone on here posted it but doesn't maybe understand the parallel.

It ain't practical or possible under the given restraints .Water temps , etc . So it's not FEASIBLE, Sheldon . Sounds like my wife the teacher when she's loosing the discussion . She corrects my grammar .

And I've been thinking They dump a bunch in at Sandy for a few years . They send in the shocking boats to survey them multiple times . They get dismal results . And I have been there most times to talk with them . They can't even get the Atlantic's to enter the estuary to begin the journey upstream . That should tell anyone enough .

Just checked with my fly guide buddy who fishes Sandy a lot and he got 0 ( Zero ) Atlantic last year . He Heard of a few caught . Hardly a success . And I really wanted this to succeed but at some point you have to move on .

Feasible ... Possible to do , a realistic or practical task . Feasible , the exact word to use . Practical . It might be possible or doable , but at what cost ? And what is the end game ? Is it practical ? Or Feasible ? Is it practical to throw a ton of time and resources to a project that might work ? The Kalmath river project is no where near the same as this . The West Coast rivers drain mountains of snow and ice water . Not nearly the same . And as a guy who by his own admission has only done trib fishing once , how would you know the particulars of Sandy ? I've spent thousands of hrs on the tribs . I know Sandy pretty well and there are a lot of overhanging trees . And the water still gets hot . It's a mid Sept at earliest to mid May at the latest fishery above the 19 bridge . After that , it's warm water species . Sometimes it's a trickle. Let's wait and see the returns of Atlantic's this year . Last year we boated 10 in the lake , this year maybe 6 . Would like to know from Sandy trib guys their catch numbers for last few years .

Did we ever consider that maybe why the current efforts aren't working is because the reality is that it's not feasible ? At some point you have to stop trying to jam a square peg in a round hole . Spend the resources on what actually and has proven to work. The priority of funding should be on what works . Stop throwing good money after bad . A year round fishery in Sandy for what , Atlantic salmon ? Is that what you are saying ? How's that work in the dead of summer with a trickle of a flow and water temps in the high 80s ? With the only flow from the canal spillways that is warm water . Some falls the water is so low it's unfishable , or at least to me it is. And the fish stack up in front of me waiting for flow . An added bonus of low water for me . I'm here , I see it . I'm not an armchair QB . And what's the Salmon river got to do with this ? I thought this was about Sandy ? We had a great fishery in Sandy forl mid Aug on kings before they pulled the pen kings. Also Tons of browns and domestic rainbows ( don't see those anymore ) with steelhead mixed in as water temps drop. Also Coho when they stock them . Use the hatchery space for those species . The didn't have to shock kings because they were flying out of the water everywhere. Why ? Because lake and stream conditions are conducive for their success . If it was for Atlantic's , they would have taken hold by now . Is anyone catching Atlantic's year round at the Oak or Irondequoit or the Salmon river ? Those streams seem more conducive for a summer fishery. .

I counted 110 cars at all the bridges from Holley to the lake 1 day . I hardly call that a ghost town . Brown time there are lots of cars at many of the bridges all fall . And that's since I've had my cottage It ain't the Salmon river but it's a lot .And have you seen the Oak or Burt ? It's crazy town some days . Take a ride Columbus day and see for yourself .b I'm not trying to live in the past . But I'm a if it's not broke don't fix it type of guy . I would bet big money i spend more time fishing Sandy than anyone else since I bought my cottage . I see people , I talk to people , I see what they catch .I talk to the Atlantic shocking boats . They get very little fish . 4 one day was the most . DEC asked to put pens at my place and I gladly did and would do it again. So I see first hand , not by some statistics and figures . I was willing to give the Atlantics a chance . Returns to Sandy are dimal for the amount stocked as I see it . The survey guys say the same . The juice ain't worth the squeeze. Maybe more Coho, domestics and here's a thought , Kings again .

Yes , fisherman flock to where the fish are . Have you seen the South shore trib bridges packed with cars from mid Sept to Nov because I have ? And I have fought the crowds at the Oak in the fall . They all aren't flocking east . Alsoi see very few boats after Labor Day in front of Sandy after our pen kings were relocated . And my succes rate for staging kings has plummeted . My neighbor put the first bucket King stock in Sandy and it has been game on in that creek since till we got our kings taken away . There have been a ton of Atlantic's stocked at Sandy in hopes of great returns there for fly fisherman .The DEC as I remember has said in the past that Sandy and I think Irondequoit seem perfect for them . I really wanted this to work . But over the last so many years , it hasn't at least not to the extent of what I would call successful for the investment .And I see it first hand . And I talk to the shocking boats . I can't see dumping a ton of cash and resources into stream improvement on the outside chance it might , might , work . Seems to me the DEC is trying to fix something that wasn't broken in an effort to satisfy a portion of the fishing publics dreams. It was a nice thought and valliant effort. But you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear . Personally I would like to see them go back to stocking domestic rainbows . I use to catch a good amount of them off my dock and in the upper tribs fall and winter .

I'm really surprised this didn't happen more often

King eggs hatch December ish . So that gives them 5 months and in good temps to grow a bit . Predators aren't going to get them all . We have a good flood in the spring and some of the fry might get flushed down to the lake . So a small percentage might survive . Some years might be better than others . I don't think some of you guys give mother nature a whole lot of credit for her survival instincts and desires. Ive seen them spawning in drainage ditches . We aren't talking about a cutthroat trout here . They took our kings away to give to destination tribs where returns were low due to stocking cuts etc . And there was a lot of crying from those businesses to increase the stocking numbers . The king fishing was bad for a while as I remember . And I think they are trying to engineer certain tribs for certain species. I know they increase the stocking numbers but not to the extent of the great fishing we have now . We have the Canadians to thank for that .

Plenty of trees Along Sandy creek Sandy creek drains farmland for a long way upstream . A lot of smaller tiny creeks join it on the way down to the lake . Canal spillways , I think there are 2 , keep at least some flow all year . The bottom is muddy and Sandy , hence the name . When flow is low , it gets very hot . Just the way it is . It is very volatile when it comes to water temp swings .I seen it go from skim ice to 60 in a week or less . Fall , when fish return , salmon and trout , they drop eggs . So if they do and the eggs hatch , some probably make it . And there are some things that probably influence the success of that . Can't really blame feds for any of this. I've seen the shocking boats many times looking for Atlantic's with dismal results . They say stream guys are getting them sometimes but I wonder if the fisherman get confused with slender fresh browns . I don't think the DEC wants kings in Sandy . They have as much as said it to me . When I ask why we don't get pen kings , and I ask every time I see the shocking boat, they always say we give you guys a lot of browns and Atlantic's .And you guys pen steelhead . They also say that Sandy is a destination brown trout stream . And I don't think the fly guys want guys chasing salmon around up there . And the stakeholder creeks , cry they want more kings and they gave them ours . There use to be a bunch of boats under the parkway bridge fishing skine under floats . Now is a ghost town sometimes . That part don't bother me . It's never going to be like it was Mid Aug on . Canadian natural reprodution has taken over . So we should be grateful for our spring summer fishery , which has been and will hopefully continue to be great .

In my opinion , the northern shore tribs are taking over the king population in the lake . Seems to me the tipping point was maybe 2010 or earlier . The more that are naturally reproduced up there , the more there will be the next year . And the Canadian DNR closed a few of the major tribs that got big runs to fishing a few years ago so that was means even more . And the NY DEC really has no control over it .. As far as Sandy , I see fish digging beds in front of me sometimes , especially on lower flow years . I'm also think the reason we get a lot of Jacks and mature 2 year olds is quite possibly they are strays . The bigger fish know where their home streams are .Which is why the Canadian side gets bigger fish . It all seems to make sense to me .

I have been saying there is South shore tribes Nat reprodution , especially Sandy for years . Got a lot of flack for it also .

With a screen like I have been seeing lately , I can see how you jig guys would be doing well .