Lucky13

The Perch don't eat the alewife, the alewife eat the perch. The decline in perch numbers shows up in later years or, if the perch hatch and the alewife spawn overlap (and they always do to some extent) every year, there is a long term decline in the perch population. This was discovered by fisheries research conducted in NYS by Bill Abraham, retired DEC Region 8 Fisheries Manager, and published by the American Fisheries Society. If Lake Ontario still had the alewife population found in the sixties, there would be virtually no perch in the embayments and the big pond. And correlations do not have to be perfect to be strong. DEC has been reporting greatly reduced alewife populations since 2013, 14. Maybe a western New Yorker can answer, how has the perch fishing been the last couple of winters out at Sodus Bay?

I used to keep the sensitivity on my hummingbird on full, and I could pick up the top of the thermocline when trolling up in the Adirondacks. Once I had the depth dialed in, I'd turn the sensitivity down and it would mark fish, but not the constant mark at the top of the thermocline. Not as accurate as a temperature probe, but it got me in the zone more often than not. The difference in density of the water between the different temperatures shows up on sonar.

Algae are phytoplankton, tiny critters are zooplankton. Both reflect sonar.

I built one to use with my Victrola rig many years ago. I used a light level fly line and three way bead chains between the sections. If it got tangled it was easier to handle than mono, but it was still a PITA. But with one person rowing and one deploying one or two of these rigs off an old rowboat, this was the "full spread" of the 1880's. Or maybe with a flyrod and feathers run in the "oarwash." .

Algae are single celled plants. Even Cladophora, the long stringy algae that grows off the rocks and bottom, is single celled organisms living in a colony or association. You won't see most species of algae on your rigger cables.

Big schools of baby perch would correlate with a greatly reduced adult Alewife population.

Thanks for the links. I will give them a read. This is basically my 3rd season on ladyO and 2nd season with my boat. LOU in general has been beyond helpful, as well as getting out there and learning the hard way when it comes to catching them, but I want to learn as much as I can about the fishery in general beyond just "fishing". I appreciate what happens behind the scenes, and take ALOT for granted. I think we all owe it to the lake, and each other to do more than just go fishing. I don't think you can get more or better information on catching Lake Ontario fish anywhere other than this website. When it comes to putting scales in the box, you have everyone from the newbie with beginner's luck to the seasoned pros with 40 years under their belt, and they are all sharing information willingly, this is a beautiful thing. I've read pretty much all the magazines and books written about Great Lakes salmonid fishing, and if you read this website thoroughly, there is more information here, and a lot of it is not anywhere else. But for the science end of it, I'm still going to send you to the State and Federal guys, and their partners at the Universities!

If you read the first chapter of the 2018 report, the stocking section, you will find that all Atlantics that were released into Lake Ontario originated from two hatcheries, New York's contribution to the total from the Adirondack Hatchery in the Saranac Lake area, and the Federal contribution from the Tunison Hatchery run by the USGS BRD near Cortland. So how does this impact raising of cohos at Salmon River Hatchery? Page six of the report, in the notes for the table, indicates that lower than normal egg fertilization and survival of coho during fall 2017 led to a shortfall of fall fingerlings stocked in 2018. This is not the first year that they have reported eye up problems with the coho, and the study should provide useful data on the Fall fingerling versus yearling question. Both the Atlantic Salmon and the Coho salmon are mentioned in the Fish Community Objectives as species to be maintained, with an added objective of seeing self sustaining populations in Ontario. It must be remembered that the Big Pond is an international waterbody, and so the Canadians and the Federal Government have input, and many in agencies like USF+WS and USEPA see native species restoration as the benchmark for ecosystem restoration and recovery. It should also be remembered that critical programs like the lamprey eradication work or the native prey fish reintroduction, are funded at the Federal level, and could disappear if a less facilitative stance were assumed by the state. The king salmon is still the number one objective for the pelagic community. The stocking targets in the FCO also indicate a 50,000 fish target in New York for Atlantics, but a Coho target of 245,000 fish.(The Canadians and our Federal folks stock the lion's share of Atlantics; we stock the most coho) Those are still the target numbers although there was a surplus of Atlantics available to stock last year, as they did go over the target number by ~22,000 yearlings from the Adirondack Hatchery. The additional excess are all federal fish raised at Tunison. But how do those numbers support your contention of a "shift" in resources, especially in light of the egg problems? Doc, pointing out bias was not meant as a shot at anybody, but it is one of the reason why anecdotal information does not get the weight that sampling methods designed to minimize bias do, in the final analyses. That said, some posters here, like you and Sk8man, jus to single out two, and some of the captains, show a lot more objectivity than some others.

No argument that you can get the history and status of the fishery on this board, but it comes I dribs and drabs, and a lot of it is biased, misinformed, or downright inaccurate. While I know there are those out there who think the Fisheries Biologists are involved in some sort of behind the scenes conspiracy to sabotage the fishery (which they created and strive hard to maintain), many of us have worked side by side with them since this all got started, and know that if you really want to get educated about what is out there and why, the reports they have written are the primary source of information. At the risk of being redundant, here are some of the " essential reading" items via link for background on this great fishery: http://www.glfc.org/pubs/FisheryMgmtDocs/Fmd17-01.pdf This is the guidance document for Lake Ontario. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27068.html This is the page with the last 4 annual reports, read the sections that cover your area(s) of interest. Also check out the DEC webpages on Salmon, and on minnows or bait for some preliminary discussion of the fish.

I have used this downrigger on my Raddison canoe, just had to use pieces of plywood to spread the force out when clamping. I've also used it on a 12 ft StarCraft, and a 14 ft. Herter. You may be in too small a boat for Canandaigua if your boat is smaller than those. Or, just keep sounding like an outboard, but, but, but, but...…

I have a Canon mini troll, and it works fine if you don't mind all the cranking. And it is limited to 100' of cable, so likely 75 to 80 max depth.

Within a margin of error, the trawling data should present a picture of the overall density of bait out there. If there was twice as much bait, a random sampling effort along transects should produce a picture of approximately twice the density of the fish, like was seen back in the beginnings of the work. If they went out and chased the sonar until they found schools, the picture would no longer be unbiased but would be heavily skewed. By running the same basic program, they get rid of the bias. And they then analyze the fish caught for age and size structure, "icing on the data cake."

The bass did not take over the trout lakes. People moved the bass. They dominate the lake or pond eating down the available food, and the small trout, but, because of the long cold winters, and colder temperatures of these water bodies, they don't get big. Trout ponds and lakes are NOT bass habitat, and just because someone likes to fish for bass does not give them the right to "convert" a water body to their personal preference. Lots of good bass lakes around, leave the trout lakes alone.

LL salmon, and sometimes rainbows, are often attracted to motor noise, we catch them right in the prop wash in the Adirondacks all the time. Maybe the same thing is going on there.

It occurs to me that I don't recall seeing the "bait paper" posted on this site ( I could be wrong, I could have missed it.) But in case anyone has not seen this, here is the report that is on the Great Lake's Fishery Commission website, for the 2019 trawl survey. http://www.glfc.org/pubs/lake_committees/ontario/2019_preliminary_status_of_Lake_Ontario_Alewife.pdf