Lucky13

While I am almost always at the RIT meetings, it is fishing season for some of us, so I attended in Pulaski, where there was a pretty good turnout, although the room would have certainly held more. I spoke with Dr. Weidel before the meeting, and he kind of summed things up by pointing out that we are using possibly the most finely tuned measurement system going for this kind of work, and then we all have to deal (over and over) with the disappointment of what it tells us. If these guys were just scientists, they would not care, as it is just the job of science to observe and measure change , regardless of its direction, but they appear to be as frustrated by what is coming back in the data as everyone else. If you missed the meeting, and have any interest at all in the fishery, lake or tributary (and a lot of guys at the motel had no interest in going because "the bait doesn't affect me, I only fish in the river") take the time to view the webinar, or watch the DEC website, as the power point slides might show up there, and give some careful thought to what all this data adds up to, both if the managers ignore it, as some are urging, and what they might have to do to restore balance to the system (to the minimal extent that the managers have control.)

That is assuming that the "drain" is capable of discharging at the same volume and rate that the " faucet" allows water in at. If the outlet does not have capacity to handle what is coming in, even with the drain wide open, the bathtub overflows all over the floor. This is also complicated by the people who live along the Saint Lawrence, and the people who live just downstream of the river, in Montreal and further downstream. When you build your house in the flood plain, once in a while you are going to have the floodplain on your house.

I don't need google to find the NYSDEC reports for Lake Ontario. I thought I would highlight that section of the boat report, because so few on this site appear to really read anything. Smaller numbers of harvested steel due to better king fishing was highlighted in the report, maybe you didn't read that? It is boat anglers who have indicated that steel do not release well in the heated surface waters in summer, tributary anglers are fishing vastly different thermal conditions, except maybe if they find that summer run Atlantic that you will apparently burn gas for the full 6 hours going after. It was Yankee Troller that suggested that no captain will keep " culling" if they can get three and head for shore. And none of you guys want the Lake Trout, or so I keep reading. " Unless the Bait rebounds." Well, at least one angler out there supports and believes the science even when it is not reporting the story you want to hear. Maybe you can talk to Captain Perlioni about that. And glad to hear that you scrupulously follow the regulations, but according to the bait data, nearly 10% of the creeled fish were undersized.

From the 2018 NYSDEC report to the GLFC: ( my bold) Rainbow Trout Catch and Harvest Rainbow trout was the third most commonly caught and harvested salmonine in 2018 and represented 7.1% and 5.9% of the total trout and salmon catch and harvest, respectively (Tables 1, A14a; Figure 10). Estimates of total catch and harvest peaked in 1989, declined to the lowest levels in the early 2000s, then improved from about 2008-2014. More recently, estimated catch was similar to levels observed in the early 2000s. Rainbow trout catch in 2018 was an estimated 18,047 (+32.3%) fish, 46.1% lower than the longterm average. Anglers harvested 8,411 (+39.3%) rainbow trout (46.6% of those caught), 60.3% lower than the long-term average. Reduced catch of rainbow trout in recent years (i.e., 2015-2016; Figure 10) was partly attributed to reduced population size after a prolonged rainbow trout mortality event related to thiamine deficiency in the Salmon River, NY from fall 2014 and into winter 2015 (Lantry and Eckert 2018). Another indication of a reduced population was the size of the run at the Ganaraska River. The rainbow trout run at the Ganaraska Fishway in Ontario has traditionally been used as an index of abundance, which was markedly lower 2014-2016. During spring of 2017 and 2018, however, the rainbow trout run at the Ganaraska River Fishway increased compared to the 2016 run size indicating a higher population level in 2017 and 2018 (OMNRF 2019). Rainbow trout catch in New York waters of Lake Ontario also increased in 2017; however, catch declined again in 2018 to levels lower than observed in 2015-2016. There have been no substantial reports of die-offs since 2014-2015, so reasons for the reduced catch in 2018 are unclear. Stocking of yearling rainbow trout in 2015 was 23% below target which may have impacted population abundance since those fish were age-4 in 2018 and fish from that age class represented 29% of the age structure on average from 20092018 (35% in 2018; Prindle and Bishop 2019). It is also possible that rainbow trout were targeted less by anglers in 2018 due to record high catch rates for Chinook salmon. Anglers will often target rainbow trout by going further offshore during periods when Chinook salmon are not available. In 2018, Chinook fishing was exceptional in May through September (Figure 7c). For 33 consecutive years (1986-2018), most rainbow trout were caught and harvested in the west area (Lantry and Eckert 2011; Table 14a). In 2018, 40.9%% of all rainbow trout caught and 35.4% of those harvested were from the west area, which is considerably lower than average (62.2% and 64.6% respectively). The majority of rainbow trout catch (43.2%) and harvest (49.4%) occurred during August (Table A14a). There have been significant downward trends (p<0.001) in the April/May percent contribution to harvest with April/May 2018 ranking 32nd out of 34 years; along with corresponding significant increases in percent contribution to total harvest in the other months, especially June/July (p=0.0235). Fishing Quality For seven consecutive years, from 2008 to 2014, anglers experienced the highest rainbow trout catch per boat trip in the history of the survey (average=0.77 fish per boat trip; Table A14b; Figure 10). The 2015 and 2016 catch rates (0.38 and 0.43 fish per boat trip), however, declined to the lowest since 2006. After catch rates temporarily improved in 2017, they dropped again in 2018 to 0.38 fish per boat trip which is 17.5% below the long-term average. In 2018, charter boats caught 39.3% of all rainbow trout caught by trout and salmon boats. Charter boats caught 0.61 rainbow trout per boat trip, 45.3% lower than the long-term average (Figure 10b). Charter boat catch per angler hour (0.02 fish per hour) was also well below (-40.4%) the long-term average. Anglers fishing onboard noncharter boats caught 0.30 rainbow trout per boat trip and 0.02 fish per angler hour (Table A14b). The 2018 lake-wide harvest rates among charter and non-charter boats followed similar trends as catch rates and were also well below long-term averages (Figure 10b, Table A14b). Rainbow trout monthly and geographical catch rate and harvest rate trends for most years showed monthly rates highest during the summer in the western end of the lake and lowest in the east area (Lantry and Eckert 2011; Table A14b; Figures 10c, 10d, A5). As compared to the long-term average, the 2018 rainbow trout monthly catch rates were below average in most months (April [-76.4%], May [-57.9%], June [-26.7%], July [-12.2%], September [-25.1%]) except in August when it was near average (+2.4%; Table A14b). Catch rate per boat trip in 2018 was especially low (-46.6%) in the west area. Seasonal catch rates in the west region are typically about 5 times higher than the average of the other three regions in a year but this was not the case in 2018. Lower rainbow trout catch rates in the west region may be partly due to exceptional Chinook fishing throughout the season which led to reduced targeting of rainbow trout during summer in the west. Catch rates per boat trip in the west/central area were 36.9% above average, near average in the east/central (0.3%) and 59.6% above average in east (Figure 10d). Biological Data Biological data analysis presented here includes fish processed during April 15 - September 30 (length: 1985-2018, weight: 1988-2018). Scale samples were collected from rainbow trout processed for biological data each year 1996-2018; however, they are not yet aged. Lengths of rainbow trout sampled from the open lake boat fishery were dependent on several factors including age and strain composition, stage of maturity, and fishing regulations (i.e. minimum size limit). The 2018 open lake season was the 12th year affected by the increased minimum harvestable length of rainbow trout from 15 in to 21 in. The average percent contribution of fish <21.0 in for the twelve years since the regulation (2007-2018) was 9.9%, and significantly lower than the twelve years prior to the increased minimum size limit (1996-2006) when 19.7% of rainbow trout processed were <21.0 inches (t=4.23; df=15, p-value = 0.0004). During 2018, 9.6% of harvested rainbow trout were shorter than the legal 21 in minimum harvestable size. Weight data were collected each year from 19882018 and rainbow trout condition was calculated as predicted weights of standard-length fish (Table A15). For each standard-length group (18- to 32in lengths, by 2-in size increments), predicted weights were variable but showed increasing trends from 1988 to about 2002-2003 (trends similar to those observed with Chinook and coho salmon), then generally declined to record and near record lows by 2006. Since then condition of rainbow trout has varied at a lower level resulting in significant downward trends among all 30 years. In 2018, predicted weight (condition) was below average for all inch groups evaluated relative to long-term averages. Relative to more recent years, condition of smaller fish (18-in, 20-in, and 22- in groups) ranged from +4.9% to 1.3% above previous ten-year averages. Condition of the larger fish (i.e., 24-, 26-, 28-, 30-, 32 in groups) were near or below previous ten-year averages (range: -0.3% to -5.4%). The 28 to 32-inch predicted weights in 2018 were the 3rd lowest in the time series for all groups. Below average temperatures and reduced preyfish population could have contributed to reduced growth and condition of rainbow trout. " So if it is not possible to release rainbows in July and August when most are being caught on the west end, what are you guys doing with the undersized fish? Aside from the questionable practice of using rigs that you know are going to kill fish that are not "desirable," either undersized or over limit fish, are you not putting a heavy hit on future populations of salmon and trout if the junk lines result in so much mortality. Maybe the solution is a three silvers any size, no release allowed and the rods get retired as soon as the limit is in the box. no "skipper" food for gulls then.

If it were not for DEC, you would not have " your" fishery. Left alone, Mother Natrure would still be providing a big pond full of alewife that ended up on the beaches every summer, maybe a few of the " native" lake trout would have come back, but all the rest of what you enjoy out there is there due to the efforts of DEC.

So I may not be the greatest fisherman out there, but I have not seen a 10 fish day in over 20 years on the tribs. The days of the huge numbers went with the arrival of the remainder of the country's anglers, and are long gone, except in go pro vids, or as reported for large parties, or if you happen to be in a spot where there is a big bunch moving through, once in a great while. Or you happen to have off the one day the Genesee goes down in two months of winter. 12 Silvers a day for parties of four 7 days a week (and not counting double trip days when you got the first group off the boat early and were able to get a second one out) is 84 silvers a week, plus however many were "rejected" because they were not desirable for the " legal limit" is still a lot of fish, if you are full time. And reading Bob's rant, he's implying at least some of you are not all that sporting, honest, and efficient, at least if there is money involved. Maybe its time to reconsider derbies and their impact on the fishery! And I read the same "16 for 35" reports that KD reports all the time, rec anglers who pay the big bux for the gas and boat and plan a full day on the lake are generally out there playing for as long as they have time and weather, not boxing and heading home after an hour because they caught the limit.

If you read, and you should, the regulations for the FL, you will find that stream name prominently displayed. No spot burn there.

Browns are not a very common find in the SR, and they are there mainly in fall. Chrome all winter, down low if you can afford it from now until the water gets cold, then upriver all winter as others have said. If you really want browns, Oak Orchard, or the Oz used to be very good, haven't really checked it in a few years.

DItto the above. I have an Old Town Sport boat, a square sterner built on Rangely boat lines, more like a guide boat but still a narrower beam than a small motor boat. It was rated for a five when they came out, but Old Town dropped the rating to three. And I have a 16' Raddison, not square, but has a side mount for a motor, it is also rated for three. The OT screams with a three on it, but the first time I used it, used to the wider beam, I almost "set a rod down" into the lake. If you are not hauling it around and having to get it back in off the road, and you are leaving it at your cottage, get the 14 footer and put your 9.9 on it, and if you still want a canoe, use it with paddles or oars, and take your wife for a nice ride once in a while.

The urban areas of New York have storm sewers to get rid of then runoff during rainstorms. Storm sewers clog very rapidly with cInders or sand, not so much with soluble road salt. I will wager that anywhere you have been and sand was being used, the road side conveyance was a ditch. It is very expensive to use a Vactor or other equipment to remove the sand from the piped system, not so much to clean a ditch with a backhoe.

I was replying to the Guilty Hooker... Oh, did I misspell that? I looked for a USGS gage that you could use to predict based on Temperature and flow, but there does not appear to be any flow monitoring by the feds on the river. I also checked the 18 Mile gage and the Kenyonville gages, but they don't monitor temperature at either.

I seem to recall a time when if you didn't have four downriggers hanging off the back of your ship, you were a hopeless dinosaur. Those of us who still pulled copper or dragged lead core were anachronisms best relegated to those small lakes where irregularity of bottom made downriggers impractical. How many junk lines do you run now? The times keep changing, and the old comes back as "new". Suttons were not invented yesterday, and if you could get the little Millers you would be pulling them. And I believe there is a diagram of a peanut and "fly" pulled behind a flasher in Earl Holdren's book, there's a real "modern" idea! .

One person's "saltiness" is another person's jocularity. Lighten up a little!

Whatever happened to Alpena diamonds? I remember they used to start working when the browns went to smaller bait. Of course, the goby probably changed everything.

Lower Niagara? Lower Salmon? Lower Genesee? Lower Credit? The mind reading installment course hasn't come in the mail yet. It's a big lake with lots rivers.