Skunked on Seneca Soth end today

[ac holmes]

To all those intrepid trollers out there,

I got up this AM and promised my wife an exciting fishing trip on Seneca South end, based I the way we have been hammering the trout and LLs for two weeks. We trolled for 5 hours in the same water with the same tackle and techniques and got skunked. About 8 miles north of Watkins on the West side I marked many, many fish, on the bottom, in 230-280 FOW. Maybe they were spawning there or having a big get together of some kind. I tryed spoons, cheaters, flashers, spin DRs and flys, top water, medium water and also fished deep with the riggers for an hour or so. Had my good sea wife not been bored to death by then, I would have tryed bouncing the bottom for the fish in deep water with jigs and spoons, a big sinker and a 3 way swivel.

Any feed back on this sudden shut down is appreciated...what do you think?

Best,

Andrew

[Trolling Keuka]

Andrew,

I was out with Chowder this morning , south end west side of Seneca and the fishing was hot. Copper was the hot rig followed by the dipsy and the riggers were very quiet.

[ac holmes]

Hi Mike,

May I ask what you mean when you say "copper?"

In the old days (1960s and 70s) when I fished Seneca before I moved away for 25 years, we fished copper exclusively (or sometimes a Seth Green rig). This was a method for trolling that went back to the 1800s on Seneca. Our use of copper was solid wire fished as a hand line on the bottom with a heavy spoon called a Pluger #4 and no leader at all. Later in the year, we fished black "twin minnows" with 10-15 feet of heavy leader, one again, on the bottom.

What is considered a "copper rig" these days?

Cheers,

Andrew

[Trolling Keuka]

I still use the Seth Green rig but not as much as I used to. I don't see to many people using the Seth Green rig these days. Do a search for copper on here an you will find tons of great info. A-TOM-MIK website also has some great info. It really blows to reel the stuff in because of the copper length but it really catches fish. I plan on having some on my boat next spring. It is a huge reel with lots of backing then copper then leader then your bait. We were using spin dr and flies this morning. The copper comes in lengths of 200ft, 300ft, 400ft, 500ft, and 600ft.

We would get the copper lines set out and about a minute later we were reeling the copper back in because we had a fish on.

[chowder]

AC, usually copper lines work best when the bite is "tough". The line itself is the delivery device. There is no rigger ball or dipsy creating that big sonic disturbance that often attracts fish. Long copper lines are considered stealth rigs because they are way back and there is no big "signature" from a delivery device. I usually deploy copper lines after I have given my dipsy and rigger lines a good opportunity to work. When I start to get the sense that the fish are not really interested in riggers or dipsies I start working copper into the program. Typically if I get a fish or 2 on the long coppers I can mimic the stealth effects of the copper by running long leads on the slide diver type dipsies and or running long rigger leads. Another trick that can some times work as well as the copper is to run a 2 or 3 color lead core line off the rigger. This puts the bait well below the ball, again reducing the effect of the balls "signature". Copper is generally not a slam dunk by any means. It's difficult to use and there are a number of other techniques that may work just as well.

[perch predator]

Some of us still use the old seth green, and even with all the advances in tackel the fish still hit them.

[jason]

copper does work great, but there are day when i smoke more fish off a rigger, or dypsy. plus im to lazy to want to crank in all that line.

[ac holmes]

Thanks for the feedback on fishing copper guys,

I had no idea how copper is used in deep water trolling currently.

It all makes sense concerning turbulence and a sonic signature of dipsies, downrigger balls, flashers, dodgers, spin drs, etc.,

however, the lure itself leaves a signature, but I guess the trick is to get that signature to mimic a bait fish and I suspect that has a lot

to do with speed and current according to specific lures or combos.

I always had the idea in "the old days" when we banged solid copper on the bottom with no leader and a heavy spoon, that the clicking

sound of the spoon on the rocks was transmitted through the wire to your fingers like a telegraph line and the wire brought fish in to the lure. About 1972-73, as I remember, green slime appeared on the bottom and the lure was soon a mess of bright green slime, so we kinda gave up on that kind of fishing. Seth green rigs continued to work of course. I have tryed the old copper technique in the last 2 years and have hooked a few fish but soon get a zebra mussel or two on the point of the hook.

I have seen a lot of ads for "black boxes" to control the electronic signature. What's the deal with that idea? Any solid evidence that they help

or harm in catching fish?

I am not complaning about Seneca Lake as I am catching a lot of fish quite regularly and some good sized ones as well. I am on the flat part of the learning curve now, but got my nose out of joint yesterday getting skunked after doing so well in the last month.

I plan to give it another whack in the AM if the weather is OK.

Cheers,

AC Holmes

[stinger]

Copper is generally not a slam dunk by any means. It's difficult to use and there are a number of other techniques that may work just as well.

You have to have a good set of arms when you play the COPPER game. Generally not much fun for the kids.

Lyteline got around that issue with this....> .......................> It's battery operated and semi-portable.

[lakebound88]

i have two seth green rigs, love my new cannons, but coppers always seems to work when everything fails..

[lyteline]

Well,well well.Stinger,you finally let the secret out with that fine fish catching machine that you just had to post.If anyone else feels they have to have one,they can be had by contacting Stinger @ THE RUG SHOP.He'll be more than happy to help.Tight lines and calm seas................Zeke & Cyn(Strike 3)

[stinger]

Well it's about time you saw that. Look at the date of my post............your slipping Z'