seth green help

[ifishy]

so I was given a set of rods the other day by a faimly friend these are old shaksphere meat sticks that we used to snag with when it was leagl and later used to fish cod out of hampton beach.  they have diawa GLS 47s on them from the 80s and they are spooled with dacron.  I am thinking I can make a rig out of one not my normal type of fishing but always good to have some other options plus I love trying new things.  I am going to add some 30lb to prevent fleas with a barrel swivel every 10 feet for 100 feet or so and than make up a bunch of 12lb fluro leaders.  all my research I see talk of suttons and similar spoons at slow speeds.  most of my box is made up of Finger lakes tackle spoons or old northern kings or some DW super slims most of those spoons run better faster.  is a rig worth fishing at faster speeds say 1.8 up to 2.8 with those spoons? I really like keeping a mixed spread with a junk line or two for silver fish.  or if I'm gonna try a rig should I just go all slow and if i want to run another rod put out a cowbell or a dodger on a thumper or some such?  I'm just trying to cut the learning curve a bit so I have another option for days when i have a buddy or a kid with me and cant get my normal spread dialed in.  especially seneca as i can usually catch something but have never had a 20 fish day. 

 

also anyone seeing fleas yet I'm going sat evening and want to know if i have to put in my top shot of 30lb on the rigger lines for the fleas

 

 

 

[apb]

No fleas quite yet. I have run a meat rod with flx tackle and super slims at faster speeds but I only put 3 leads out instead of 5. Obviously more weight would help as well. You may want to just go with beads(barrels) every 20 ft instead of ten. When you consider blowback 10 ft intervals will be pretty tight. There are folks on here that were draggin these rods long before me so I am sure they will pipe in with a bit more info!!! Best of luck!

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[Sk8man]

Basically you can do "all of the above" with a rig. The Sutton's are quite speed sensitive and if you're after lakers trolling slowly at 1.5-2.2 seems to work pretty well but they can be caught at higher speeds too and some Sutton's like the #88's will run at high speed and catch good fish if run together (e.g. 5 of them) and not with smaller spoons and they generate some torque too and you can tell when they are at the top of the range by your rod tip (bobs up and down in rhythm). One of the reasons the #44 is popular is because it tolerates speed pretty well. The Finger Lakes Tackle spoons should run fine on rigs but I would be running them together rather than mixed with other stuff if you plan to troll at the upper part of the range and want to get the most out of them. When "prospecting" using a mixture of spoons and sizes can be productive and then change out to all similar size/color spoons that caught fish on one of the rigs (if running more than one).  I would recommend ss stranded wire for a main line but it requires a roller tip too. The dacron is OK but has quite a bit of drag in the water...if used go with a heavier sinker (36-40oz. vs. 32 with wire). I tried 50 lb Power Pro braid for rig lines twice and both times it cut off by going over the side of the roller soI gave up on that but some of my friends still use it...but braid sucks in flea season. 30 lb Big Game mono works fine for rig lines...I usually set mine up with 12 ft. intervals so that if a I fish shallow (less than 100 ft.) I can put 5 short leaders on (say 10 ft long) or if I go deep I can set them up for 24 or 36 (three leader) Nice to have options. Although I've used leaders up to 40 ft. without major problems my preference is about 15-18 ft (if winter/cold weather fishing 12 ft.)and if you use 24 ft intervals and your motor conks out they don't tangle together that way. By the way you can troll at just about any speed with rigs if you stay compatible with lure choices but varying your speed is essential. When I'm after rainbows specifically I often run at 2.5-3.2 but I make sure my lures work there and are compatible with the others on that rig. You can also run cowbells or dodgers or even spin docs/flys (best singly) on your rig. I used to run cowbells and peanuts at the bottom with four leader above it but there is a lot of "drag". I've even run dipseys with flasher/fly off mine before. They are very versatile and the most common complaint regarding rigs is that they are "too heavy  and you can't feel the fish as well" Try saying that as you hand line in multiple big rainbows or landlocks....it easily dispels that myth There are a number of good rig fishermen on here so maybe they have other ways or additional things to add too.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Sk8man

[ifishy]

thanks for the advice I will set longer leads between lures for the blow back my thought was just to run lures on the rig all of similar color looking more for depth but would like to run another rod off the other side of the boat.  I love handlineing pike through the ice so handlineing a trout on the boat has some appeal to me plus I always like to have other options.  I have trouble making myself go slower than about 1.8 so its good to know they can work at higher speeds I hear you on the blow back I used to run a dacron dipsey till I was able to purchase some wire I will say fleas will saw off of dacron real easy but there is definatly drag plus I think the white line scares some fish away.  Sounds like there is a lot more options than I originally thought so should be fun to play with.  i also go my hands on some automatic reels with monel wire so I might set up a rig on one of those and do a pure hand line I just like the thought  of a rod and real for stroage. i own no suttons but have a large variety of NKs on long term loan from my father so looking to use what I have first.  my flt spoons and super slims have caught a lot of fish the last few years so it would be tough not to have them out running at higher speeds lets me keep them out on short cores which is my favorit presentation

[ifishy]

sk8man I re-read your post a couple times lots of good info to absorb thank you if I decide I like rig fishing and invest in wire for those rods can i get away with a twilli tip like i have on my dipsyes? or should I just go straight to roller tips?  will probalby use the dacron to start as i hate to throw away  good line but if i get into the technique will definatly upgrade to improve the performance especially through the summer

[Frogger]

Don't short your span of success with going fast the majority of the time. Unless of course your strictly after the salmon / rainbows. Let the fish your catching dictate your liked speed, if your only catching lakers, try bumping it up a notch, if only salmon you could knock it down a smidgen. There was good advice on the leader spread especially if you like going fast. Other things to remember is how many your going to put out and the weight. Some like 32 oz others go heavier. Be careful having a different set up on each side of your boat, it can make a mess on a turn they way they will behave differently due to drag and such. I've had the best success with keeping all of the same style spoons on the Rigs to prevent spinning or no action as mentioned previously, and from the guys before me, they have put some Seneca slime on the floor as much as anyone so there's some good advice there giving.

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[Dick]

I run leader rigs most of the time. I always use darcon as my backing becuse it is cheap, and it never wears out. very strong and I can use markers to color the line as to when I hit bottom when troling at a depth. I have two rigs, one for slow speed, and one for fast. the differance is the distance between the bead chain. slow about 20ft. fast, 27ft. i did a simple chart with angles, and depth to see where my lures would run with differant speeds, or weights. I always run 30lb line from the dacron to the first bead chain, then my spacing for the next 5 bead chains. and 3ft down to the snap swivel for the weight. My leaders are never the same length becuse i keep retying them. I start with 15 ft, so I can get my rod as far foward as i can with fish on and take leaders off and try to get the net under the fish. 12 ft is avarage. also like Sk8man they can hang and not tangle! It can get to be a handfull when 2 to 3 fish are on at once!

Hope the helps everyone does it differant, but its fun.

Dick B

[ifishy]

i'll be out this afternoon evening either at sampson or out of roys unless we really get into them with my normal spread I will try rig fishing the more I think about handlining in those fish the more appealing it sounds.  thanks for the advice so far guys I will definatly use it to set up this rig.

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

I run 5 leader rigs almost all the time. I pull at least 3, sometimes 5 rigs. I wrap my rigs on a board when finished with them. I always tie the rigs with 3 arm lengths of line between each leader, and 3 "short" arm lengths for the leaders. I've tried removable leaders, but takes too much time to get the fish up and the rig back into the water, so I prefer to handline them up and slide them back in. Ideally the leader should be just short of the mainline, by inches. I also use 25# main line and 15# leaders and sinker drop. I want to lose the sinker if it hangs and not the whole rig. As far as dacron, it can be hard to handline, I would stick to mono filament. I use 32 oz sinkers for rigs that are not at the boat and 60 oz sinkers at the boat ( they can be a bear to pull if not use to them). i've used this set up for over 30 years and have fine tuned it over those years. I am always re tieing my rigs to keep them fresh, so if you want, I can show you how I tie them if your interested. Just pm me and I can set something up with you. 

 

Jason

[Sk8man]

Ifishy - the twillis are fine for dipsey wire rigs etc. but you really can't go wrong with roller tips (don't really need all rollers (expensive too) especially if you decide to go to wire. Some of my buddies use braid for their Seth Greens but I hate it after trying two rig lines with it (50 lb Power Pro) both cut off somehow when they pinched off at the side of the roller. I've never had a problem like that with the wire to mono approach. Al my Seth Green rigs and dipsey rigs are wire and roller tipped. There is less friction with roller tips and they come in pretty easy.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Sk8man

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Yes, definitely wire. Another thing worth mentioning is different color mainline than leader. I find it easier to clear knots when I can distinguish mainline from leader. Getting to be in my mid 40's my eyes can't judge the line by diameter anymore.

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[ifishy]

thanks i've been thinking about this since my last trip whenever i get it in my head to learn a new technique i have trouble letting go untill i get the hang of it.  next week is my anneversery so its gonna be two weeks before i'm back on the water i'm dying to use some of the tips ive been sent.  Probably gonna hold off on wire till next year (budget) i spent this years extra fishing budgent on a homemade rocket launcher planer mast system it still needs pole holders.