LongLine

White oak is used on many boat transoms & kicker brackets. Any oak will turn black when in contact with iron & moisture due tanic acid content. ie nails. You have to use Brass fasteners. Tom B. (LongLine)

You have some good points there. Unfortunately, we’re not lawyers nor have the resources to do what you propose. The fishing club is a good idea –LOTSA had a drive supporting it and I applaud them for it. Others said: “we’ll see if we can get it on the next year’s agenda – in the meantime mail your dues to….†(The downward trend in the number of fishermen affects them too) There’s a lot more to the 3 rod discussion than just this thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14768 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9630 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8641 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8541 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8608 The poll & petition were done “passively†on purpose, to solicit honest reply of stakeholders from both sides. They were written from the “little guy†point of view. (Mine – purely recreational & 100% C&R). The DEC says they do not support it but they also say they do not oppose it. (Check out the above LOU links especially the post where the DEC proposed it a few yrs back & the fishing club that was put on the spot said no at the time.) Times change & the majority of stakeholders are now for it, per the poll on a stakeholders forum and on a couple other sites. (DEC, by law, must involve stakeholders in decision making) If you look at the petition (on “LOU for change†section), you’ll find the link. No negative comment has been deleted from the petition. No votes have been changed on the poll. A couple loud ones came in however the magnitude of negatives just didn’t come. Specifically as to solid numbers: The 2008 NYSDEC boat creel survey states 41% of the all boats seeking T&S (not anglers) had zero catch. (Sect 2 pg 37) It further states that the overall average boat seeking T&S had 2.98 anglers onboard. (Sect 2 pg 31) The average charter had 5.2 anglers per trip (Sect 2 pg 32). The non-charter boat average catch was 1.69 fish per trip and the charter average catch was 6.08 per trip. (Sect 2 pg 36) http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_ ... 8sec02.pdf Creel limits were established to prevent overfishing and protect the fish populations from exploitation. Lake Ontario fishermen are nowhere near the daily creel limits. In Sect 2 pg37, it states that the number of non-charter boats successfully catching their creel limit of T&S was 1.0% and for Charter anglers 1.8%. The NYSDEC fishing survey published this last summer (covering 7,500 lakes & 50k miles of streams) says that 81% of the angler days people spent fishing in NYS were on the Great lakes. http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_ ... rptsum.pdf It goes on to say that “approximately ½ of the fishermen†were satisfied with the quantity (49%) of fish they caught and 48% were satisfied with the size of the fish. As to the satisfaction part: more than half were not happy with their catch, thus indicating that “catching†is very important to the majority of fishermen. I have previously posted my personal meet-ups with dissatisfied fishermen at the launch. I’ll fish Lake Ontario again & again, but I really doubt they will, especially after they spent all that effort, time & money to give it a shot. Will an unsatisfied fisherman make a return trip to the same area??? Will he spend his time, effort and money in the same area?? Going back to the annual report, (Sect 2, pg 31) there’s a documented downward trend in the number of fishing trips taken on Lake Ontario. If anyone has been following NYS fishing license sales, they’ll also know about the decline in the last few years. We all know about the new license fees and some probably know how the charter fleet has declined in numbers over the years. Where did the fishermen go? Some have left the state. (obviously) Look at the satisfaction survey again. Some have gone inland (Oneida fishermen numbers have risen dramatically.) Fact is, they’re not returning to the Big-O. With declining participation, the state (& agencies) is going to be hard pressed to justify the level of spending on the Big-O fishery. (In fact all over) The petition states: , etc)That petition & poll were an attempt to help get the numbers of people fishing Lake Ontario back up using the DEC’s own data, 1 ½ yrs ago. Specifically, to get the little guy coming back. 3 rods does not mean people will catch more fish. It means “increasing the potential to catch a salmon or trout.†As for being statewide, I have no problem with that, now. At the time of the poll and petition writing, my thoughts were for the NYSDEC to follow Michigan’s example. I.E. try it on the open water, monitor it through the established boat survey then expand it statewide if found favorable. The DEC likes data and statistical analysis so I proposed a methodology for them to get it and to evaluate it. (Subsequently posted) Negative consequences: As for enforcing the laws, the DEC can’t enforce the 2 line rule now. A CO can’t see your lines unless he’s right on top of you. (mono, fluoro, etc) He could see your rods a mile away though. (As for 1 rod for this guy, 2 for that & 3 for that…it would be a nightmare for anyone to enforce & DEC would be totally against that.) As for the catch rate mortality issue: Yes, the more fish harvested the more die. A formal study was done by the Mich DNR and supported by USF&WS & SeaGrant on Lake Trout C&R, long recognized as being the most stressed fish upon capture in the open water of the Great Lakes as they come from great depths. Anyways, they showed minimal loss. http://nsgl.gso.uri.edu/nyext/nyextg87002.pdf What we really have to do is express our opinions to our legislatures. A single report can easily be trashed or deleted with a single stroke. Many letters takes more effort/strokes to trash and will get more attention. Tom B. (LongLine) edit reason - I copied/pasted a paragraph rather than cut/pasted. my oops

Make sure you wear a mask when working with the Blk Locust. It's mod-highly toxic. If you use oak, use the White, Red will split. (Been there, done that) Tom B. (LongLine)

Welcome to the site - Ray - Looks like a Cutthroat. Tom B. (LongLine)

Brian - you like the fast wobble or the slow wobble? I've found the direct tied work best for me. Tom B. (LongLine)

Already said it... but worth saying it again. Happy B'day guys. Tom B. (LongLine)

Hey Skipper - you 2. Tom B. (LongLine) (I just scrolled down)

Happy B'day 10th. Tom B. (LongLine)

Where do the antenna & planner board mast go? Tom B. (LongLine) great job Ray

I don't know about the belly rubbing part, but Hank definitely knows what he's doing with engines. Ray how do you miss Port Bay? There's one road on the east and one road on the west.... Tom B. (LongLine)

Stay safe stan. That cascading water down the slope is a little scary...mudslides. Tom B. (LongLine)

Happy B-day J. Tom B. (LongLine)

NYS has put in 50K every year for quite a while. 1/2 have been going off Hamlin, The rest off the SR. Tom B. (LongLine)

Lake Winni is a completely different ecosystem than Big-O. Ray – You hit it right. Lake Winni is puddle (size wise) compared to Big-O. Its entire volume would flow out the St Lawrence in 3 1/2 days. Lake Winni has a max depth of 180 Ft, average depth of 43 ft & over 244 islands. Big-O has an avg depth of 283 ft & max 802 ft and would take 6 years to empty out the St Lawrence. Seneca actually has more than 7 times the water than Lake Winni, a max depth of 630 ft and is considered only the second largest of the Finger Lakes. I guess this can be likened to fishing the tribs where there is virtually no water column and you can work your bait directly by line of sight to the fish, especially in crystal clear water. Interesting that NH doesn't know how many fishermen/charters are out there. Smelt were purposely introduced into Seneca 1909-1912. We all know that “journalists†never misquote their sources & never put their own slant on their writings. Anyways, I found it interesting that this journalist points out that 30% of the fish turned in had been “wounded.†He doesn’t say if previously wounded or not. If previously wounded, then it indicates to me that previously hooked & released fish do survive, are surviving and can be caught again in contrast to what some people claim that they don’t survive. If not previously wounded, then the slant he puts on his story is total BS because it means 30% of the fish were wounded during "catching" and kept (for weigh in). Tom B. (LongLine)

Again - Thanx guys. Tom B. (LongLine) shortstring huh....

Auh shucks... Thanx guys. My Dad once said "a man is judged by the company he keeps" - You guys on LOU are the best. Tom B. (LongLine)

No problem Glenn. For NY to declare Big-O a Marine District would mean that the Legislature would be giving us a 66% reduction in fees. We all know that fees, just like taxes, never go down in NY. The state wastes money, they don't lose it. They spend the money...it's just that sometimes they don't know what they spent it on or whether they got any value out of it. Also, the state can't use the the Federal Marine District law as an excuse to raise our fishing fees on Big-O because they already have a list of everyone that is on the lake, either by NYS fishing licenses or boat registrations. The Feds wanted a list of people who "hang out" on the coastal waters. The state used the Fed law to have the fishermen pay NYS thereby creating that list, rather than have the fishermen pay the Feds directly. Actually it was kind of a smart move as it gives the state more money. Hopefully not to waste - but who knows? - it's NY Tom B. (LongLine)

Just be very careful if you try to polish it. Real silver scratches awful easy. Tom B. (LongLine)

Did a little research on the Marine district licenses. Looks like we freshwater guys would save quite a chunk of money if they did declare Lake Ontario part of the marine district. Resident licenses are only $10, not the $29 a lot of us just paid. here's the link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/54950.html Also if you go more than 3 miles out, no license is required! What's that...200 FOW? Rest assured, there's NO WAY in HE[[ the state is going to declare Big-O a Marine district & lose funds. The Feds only care about the saltwater coast & were about to charge a federal fee in 2011 for being out there in the salt water, so good old NY decided to cut the feds off by getting an exemption thereby getting more money themselves. Tom B. (LongLine)

Not just "most guys", but the great majority. We'll also report violators. Tom B. (LongLine)

Musky - I'd like to know that too. I know for a fact that these NYSDEC people received letters from me along with a complete package of the petition for 3-rods: Judy Drabicki – Regional Director Reg 6 Keith Lynch – Regional Director Reg 7 Paul D'Amato – Regional Director Reg 8 Abby Snyder – Regional Director Reg 9 Shaun Keeler - Regulatory Agenda Contact for Sportfishing Regulations Pete Grannis - Commissioner NYSDEC Christopher Amato - Assistant Commissioner for Natural Resources Patricia Riexinger - Director Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources Steve LaPan – Head of the Lake Ontario Unit Tom B. (LongLine)

Larry, I don’t think many would argue against your stance for fishery money to go into the fishery. I believe every penny of fishery money should go back into the fishery. The problem I see is that if the number of fishermen declines even more, as is the general trend for quite a while then we’ll be lucky if it only goes up that $10 you refer to. Additionally, if the fees (and fines) go too high, I guess the “open water guys†will just have to start fishing only the tribs. (above the MRL). May be a lot of guys have already gone there?. Someone claimed in previous posts that: You want more crowds up there, right? BTW - How many rods are allowed in the RML now????? Tom B. (LongLine)

Here’s the link to the DEC directory: http://www.dec.ny.gov/about/558.html Just about every one of the directors, fisheries & habitat staff, plus a lot of their bosses have received calls/letters about the 3-rod rule which is why Larry got the reply he got. The reply Larry received isn’t a surprise: 1. Because the number of LINES fishermen can use is part of the Environmental Law that can only be changed by the Legislature. The DEC can recommend a change but can’t grant the change. Only the state legislature can. (NOTE: The NYSDEC is NOT against it) You need to write/call your assemblyman and state senators. 2. It costs the state money to maintain the quality level of fishing that we have. With less and less fishermen every year, the remainder WILL have to pay more to maintain it. Tom B. (LongLine)

I'll get the list on tonight. In the meantime - maybe the DEC is understaffed because the number of fishermen has been going down????? Maybe the politicians see a connection - IE if there's less interest and/or participation why spend as much money there? Tom B. (LongLine)