Another outdoor decision by Washington

[GAMBLER]

52 minutes ago, Gator said:

You and I have talked about this before, but I don't understand why we aren't employing more nuclear. I recall hearing that NYS, albeit slow out of the gate, is planning on developing a Gigawatt of nuclear power - unfortunately, it will be 2040 before this initiative pays off.

 

We're not Japan; we aren't going to have earthquakes and Godzilla lol. Well, apart from that one across the lake this week...

I hate to get political here but, the answer to that is pocket lining. Back door deals lining politician's pockets.  It's not about what best for the environment or the people, it's about what is best for politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle getting rich.   Solar panels are the new oil. 

[Gill-T]

I drove by the windmills off Buffalo today. Half were not working 

[Gator]

19 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

I hate to get political here but, the answer to that is pocket lining. Back door deals lining politician's pockets.  It's not about what best for the environment or the people, it's about what is best for politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle getting rich.   Solar panels are the new oil. 

 

It's not political to point out a fact: follow the money to identify the agenda. You'd don't get high up in the political food chain without making compromises, but more and more those compromises seem to be around ethical boundaries. Right, Left, it don't matter. The system is dysfunctional if not broken, and appears more and  more designed to serve a select few.

 

And I don't think that there's any doubt that wind and solar are making those select few very rich.

 

 

[GAMBLER]

14 hours ago, Gill-T said:

I drove by the windmills off Buffalo today. Half were not working 

And how well are those solar panels working covered in snow…. 

[HB2]

Did anyone see how much our electric bills went up ? 

 

Force everyone to go green by using electric and raise the price . 

 

North of Batavia and Bergen there are miles and hundreds of acres of farmland , now solar panels being installed . Hundreds of workers doing the installs . Quite the operation . Probably there because it is  away from an urban area , the lands cheaper , and the transmission lines are right there . 

 

Apparently  , the farmers give a 20 year lease . They make money on the land and don't have to farm it . Who can blame them ? 

 

 

[GAMBLER]

53 minutes ago, HB2 said:

Did anyone see how much our electric bills went up ? 

 

Force everyone to go green by using electric and raise the price . 

 

North of Batavia and Bergen there are miles and hundreds of acres of farmland , now solar panels being installed . Hundreds of workers doing the installs . Quite the operation . Probably there because it is  away from an urban area , the lands cheaper , and the transmission lines are right there . 

 

Apparently  , the farmers give a 20 year lease . They make money on the land and don't have to farm it . Who can blame them ? 

 

 

682 solar farms in NY that produce 1.9% of the power in NY.  Three working Nuke plants that produce 20% of the power in NY.   Which one is better?

[Gill-T]

I am all for placing solar on useless land such as landfills. I hate losing prime farmland for solar units. Nobody will be hunting around solar farms either. 

[LongLine]

I have no problem whatsoever with the farmers getting private lease deals for their land.  US farmers have out produced demand in the US for well over 100 years.  (Advances in fertilizer, techniques, better equipment, bigger farms, etc.)  

 

Back in the 50's the gov't created the "Soil Bank" which paid farmers not to plant crops. Wheat, corn, soybean, rice etc. (I had an aunt that made a lot of money on it.) It was replaced with the "Agricultural Act" which also limited production and provided farm subsidies. . The Gov't moved to put corn ethanol in gasoline. (Which we all love...yeah FN right!)   About that time the gov't bought crops to support the SNAP program. (which has just been restricted/cut) 

 

 Farmers found markets overseas.  In 2024, US exported $200 Billion worth of crops. In 2025, the US exported $170 Billion worth.  2026 looks to be lower. The big movers in 2024 were soybeans to China, Wheat and corn to Canada & Mexico. Rice to South America.  In 2024, the gov't gave $12 Billion to US farmers in subsidies.  Right now, thousands of tons of rice are rotting in silos on the Louisiana Delta because South America has found other sources. China is making deals with Canada for soybeans. US exports are frowned upon overseas due to current trade/tariff policies.  

 

This morning, I paid $3.49 for a loaf of bread.  I guess farmers have to get as much as they can where they can.  (I'm not really happy about that bread though.)

 

As to electricity, many are unaware that the counties on the east end and south shore of the lake are using mostly electricity produced in Canada.  (Of which they've threatened an excise tax on due to trade policies)

 

I'm all in favor of Nuclear.  A problem being that it requires a lot of water. I guess if they wanted to privately build one of those plants at Sandy Creek, I wouldn't object.  (I don't fish the nearshore there) It doesn't bother me if a farmer gets a private lease for a windfarm...just don't put that F/N thing in the lake!  
 

[fisherdude]

Being the United  States is a high-tech country and the want to be the number one leader of artificial intelligence the need of electricity huge. Not to forget the race to moon so man can go to Mars to colonize after they wipe out Earth... 

[GAMBLER]

On 2/2/2026 at 4:55 PM, LongLine said:

I have no problem whatsoever with the farmers getting private lease deals for their land.  US farmers have out produced demand in the US for well over 100 years.  (Advances in fertilizer, techniques, better equipment, bigger farms, etc.)  

 

Back in the 50's the gov't created the "Soil Bank" which paid farmers not to plant crops. Wheat, corn, soybean, rice etc. (I had an aunt that made a lot of money on it.) It was replaced with the "Agricultural Act" which also limited production and provided farm subsidies. . The Gov't moved to put corn ethanol in gasoline. (Which we all love...yeah FN right!)   About that time the gov't bought crops to support the SNAP program. (which has just been restricted/cut) 

 

 Farmers found markets overseas.  In 2024, US exported $200 Billion worth of crops. In 2025, the US exported $170 Billion worth.  2026 looks to be lower. The big movers in 2024 were soybeans to China, Wheat and corn to Canada & Mexico. Rice to South America.  In 2024, the gov't gave $12 Billion to US farmers in subsidies.  Right now, thousands of tons of rice are rotting in silos on the Louisiana Delta because South America has found other sources. China is making deals with Canada for soybeans. US exports are frowned upon overseas due to current trade/tariff policies.  

 

This morning, I paid $3.49 for a loaf of bread.  I guess farmers have to get as much as they can where they can.  (I'm not really happy about that bread though.)

 

As to electricity, many are unaware that the counties on the east end and south shore of the lake are using mostly electricity produced in Canada.  (Of which they've threatened an excise tax on due to trade policies)

 

I'm all in favor of Nuclear.  A problem being that it requires a lot of water. I guess if they wanted to privately build one of those plants at Sandy Creek, I wouldn't object.  (I don't fish the nearshore there) It doesn't bother me if a farmer gets a private lease for a windfarm...just don't put that F/N thing in the lake!  
 

You also pay $3.49 for a loaf of bread due to minimum wage increases.  When minimum wage jumped to $15.00 an hour, grocery and fast food prices jumped..  

[Gill-T]

Good dive into the world of oil with show Land Man.  Recommend watching. 

Edited February 4 by Gill-T

[LongLine]

 Labor cost can play a part, but Sunbeam bread is made in Mexico.  Stroehmann's bread which closed its Olean NY plant last October (operated by 80 employees) is owned by Grupo Bimbo Bakeries which is the largest bakery in the world. It's also in located in Mexico...oh well.  

 

Landman has a great Hollywood story line.  I can't wait to see the annual reports of Exon, BP etc. 
 

[HB2]

Anyone who is as ever owned a business can tell you that doing business , especially in this state is getting more and more costly. Regulation , insurance , getting employees that actually want to work , etc. etc. 

Make any money and get taxed  big time on it . And where is that money going ? The Minnesota  fiasco didn't make me confident . 

 

I'm really getting tired of hearing about the millionaires and billionaires . It's getting tired . There have always been the rich and yes , they run things , always have . 

 

 

[Gator]

22 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Good dive into the world of oil with show Land Man.  Recommend watching. 

Yes, sir!! My wife and I love it. The bits on the business of drilling are my favorite part. The female characters drive me nuts though.

 

Sheridan also does Lioness, which deep dives into Special Ops and provides some perspective on the politics around oil and narcotics. Similarly a great show.

[LongLine]

Sheridan also does Tulsa King and Mayor of Kingston.  Both about balancing criminals, corruption, bribery, drugs and the struggle to control it all for their own and their families' benefit. Pretty good storylines.

[HB2]

I just got my electric bill for my cottage . I winterized it this year ( it has minimal electric heat ) and Jan   bill was 59 $ . The electric part was 21$ , the delivery was 38 $ . So ain't that nice . It cost more to deliver it than the electric cost . Thanks Kathy . Ban gas stoves and lawn mowers , Electric buses and everything , then Jack the rates . 

 

If I didn't know better , I would think were getting set up to get fleeced . 

 

I spent 8$ for a loaf of bread the other day ( I like healthy stuff , whole grains and whole wheat . )  . Also spent 2.89 for a gallon of gas . What's your point ? 

 

 

[LongLine]

We were discussing farmers leasing their land for solar panels and not raising crops on prime land in order to make some money.  Farmers have also turned to exports to make money.  Wheat is a major export to Mexico. Wheat is the major component of breads.

 

It was offered that the $15 per hour labor rate was a driver in the cost of that bread.  It was pointed out that those breads (and I'm finding out many others) were baked in Mexico where the $15/hr doesn't apply.  The Mexican gov't is considering (per Reuters) raising their minimum to MXN $315 per day.  MXN$ is pesos and converts to US$17.27 per day. The NY labor rate only applies to New Yorkers.

 

As this thread is about decisions made in Washington DC (USA), I offer that the driver of the price increase is Donny's 25% tariff on imported Mexican bread that went into effect in March 2025. That tariff added over $0.80 to the cost of that bread.  Grupo Bimbo (the bread maker) has filed a lawsuit against Trump in December, but that tariff is still in effect.

  

As to gas, Gas Buddy says there are 10 stations in Monroe County that are under $2.75/gal for reg gas. Additionally, as I understand it, the gas stove ban (etc.) is only for new construction. 

[GAMBLER]

10 hours ago, LongLine said:

We were discussing farmers leasing their land for solar panels and not raising crops on prime land in order to make some money.  Farmers have also turned to exports to make money.  Wheat is a major export to Mexico. Wheat is the major component of breads.

 

It was offered that the $15 per hour labor rate was a driver in the cost of that bread.  It was pointed out that those breads (and I'm finding out many others) were baked in Mexico where the $15/hr doesn't apply.  The Mexican gov't is considering (per Reuters) raising their minimum to MXN $315 per day.  MXN$ is pesos and converts to US$17.27 per day. The NY labor rate only applies to New Yorkers.

As this thread is about decisions made in Washington DC (USA), I offer that the driver of the price increase is Donny's 25% tariff on imported Mexican bread that went into effect in March 2025. That tariff added over $0.80 to the cost of that bread.  Grupo Bimbo (the bread maker) has filed a lawsuit against Trump in December, but that tariff is still in effect.

  

As to gas, Gas Buddy says there are 10 stations in Monroe County that are under $2.75/gal for reg gas. Additionally, as I understand it, the gas stove ban (etc.) is only for new construction. 

Made in Mexico or not, $15 minimum wage affects price big time.  Grocery stores have to pay more to employee people to sell the bread.  They don't absorb the cost increase, they pass it on to the consumer.   Blame it on Tariffs Tom, but bread price inflation over the past couple of years went up 2.02% in 2021, 11.64% in 2022, 9,57% in 2023, 0,41% 2024, 0.64% in 2025 and 0.99% so far in 2026.  If tariffs were the issue, why did the price jump 11.64% and 9.57% well before tariffs and less once the tariffs were in place?  

Edited February 6 by GAMBLER

[fisherdude]

Negative 30 air temps wind torturing the house I'll be watching the football game with my electric heater blowing directly on me drinking a cold beer watching the football game. At this point I could  cares less how much it will cost me ....

[LongLine]

Brian:  That graph is in percentages.  

 

Here's the history of minimum wage in NYS from:
https://dol.ny.gov/history-minimum-wage-new-york-state  (Note: no increase in 2023)

 

If you do the calculations for NY percent yearly wage increases, you get this:

 

 

 These percentages do not coincide with the bread percentage graph whatsoever. If Min wage was the driver, then the bread cost graph would show a healthy increasing trend and not the ups and downs.  According to yearly percentages, the minimum wage is going down. According to real dollars, it's gone up. 

 

Would one prefer to have 7% of $100 or 3% of $300??????   This is exactly what the WH does when they claim inflation is going down.  They say 2.5% of an obscene price is less than 4% of a less obscene price so inflation must be going down.  

 

As to the Super Bowl, let's hope it's a good one. Trump not attending due to health reasons. Boo's would be so deafening he'd have a panic attack. 

[GAMBLER]

5 hours ago, LongLine said:

Brian:  That graph is in percentages.  

 

Here's the history of minimum wage in NYS from:
https://dol.ny.gov/history-minimum-wage-new-york-state  (Note: no increase in 2023)

 

If you do the calculations for NY percent yearly wage increases, you get this:

 

 

 These percentages do not coincide with the bread percentage graph whatsoever. If Min wage was the driver, then the bread cost graph would show a healthy increasing trend and not the ups and downs.  According to yearly percentages, the minimum wage is going down. According to real dollars, it's gone up. 

 

Would one prefer to have 7% of $100 or 3% of $300??????   This is exactly what the WH does when they claim inflation is going down.  They say 2.5% of an obscene price is less than 4% of a less obscene price so inflation must be going down.  

 

As to the Super Bowl, let's hope it's a good one. Trump not attending due to health reasons. Boo's would be so deafening he'd have a panic attack. 

So how did tariffs affect the price of bread when bread prices inflated way higher pre tariffs?  I'll put the graph up so you can see how the prices went up significantly before the tariffs were put in place.  2020-2024 prices soared.  The tariffs you keep mentioning didn't start until 2025......... Bread prices are actually falling now.   Hmmmm.....  Sorry Tom, you can't blame bread prices on tariffs.  Minimum wage increases cause prices to go up and NEVER down…..  

Edited February 7 by GAMBLER

[HB2]

I love the people who hate the tariffs . They  can no longer go to Walmart and buy  a widget for 25 ¢ from Chinese subsidised slave labor . And then they want everyone to be paid 

 30$ per hr + benefits . And now the countries that have been taking full advantage of us are mad that finally someone had the balls to put a stop to it . And hopefully it forces thing to be made in this country and the money stays in this country.And we force the ass sitters and welfare scum to work .  The American labor can be taxed and contribute to Social Security , workers comp ,etc and to  pay for the bloated gov , fraud , and to house and support all the illegals we now have . 

 

Yeah , Bad Bunny as halftime entertainment . I heard that someone free of charge , and I don't know how true this is , and I may look into it , will come to your house during halftime , and stick a knife in your eye . I would rather do that . 

 

Seems some of you suffer from what the Medical community have acknowledged is an actual mental affliction , TDS . 

Trump living in your head 24/7 . 

There is help available . The first step is admitting that you have a problem . 

 

 

[LongLine]

So I found that complete "un-scrunched" graph on FRED's website.  The notes say it's taken from "75 selected cites." (US) It shows the high was $2 per pound.   Also shows a drop from $2.00 to $1.80/lb beginning 2024 through 2025. The complete (not rescaled) graph shows the price of bread pretty constant from 2009 through 2020. A big jump occurs starting in 2020 which coincides with people eating more at home due to the pandemic. (I.E. demand up means prices up)

 

If you look up US minimum wage history: The Federal minimum wage was increased in 2009 to $7.25 and there are 21 states that still use that as their minimum.  (Including Texas, Georgia, etc.)

 

FRED's site also has minimum wage histories for all the states.  Adding up the numbers calculates an average US minimum wage for 2024 to be $11.40/hr.  In 2025 it's $11.69/hr and in 2026 it's $12.00/hr.   So US minimum wage increased and price of bread went down so obviously min wage is not the driver.  It'd go down a lot more if it wasn't for tariffs.

 

Some say that die-hard trumpers are sheep and that the Bible tells where the sheep ended up, but I won't.

[fisherdude]

So that why the price of a Big Mac went up due to the cost of the bun. I thought it was the 21.50 the 18 year old high school kid is now making per hour. Learn something everyday.

 

Edited February 7 by fisherdude
.

[HB2]

Lets look at McDonald's just for an example . 

If min wage increases say 5 $ . The actual cost of that with all taxes  and insurance etc is more like  7.50 . Go into any Mc D and there are 5 or 6 employees . So the increase per hr is 35$ min . Labor cost is usually 33 % of the cost of doing  business in a restaurant so to recoup that they need to sell 100$ more in product t.  So what happens ? They raise prices . Add if the same for the production of the food products  needed to make that hamburger and  we get bread made in Mexico and Americans at home unemployed , not contributing , but now getting food stamps and welfare . 

 

 

 

All the graphs and charts used to justify this ****  can't really top a little of Granny's backwood  wisdom and common sense . 

 

And now we find we have been being robbed blind . NYC is broke.People of means Dems hate are fleeing .  The money to bail them out is going to have to come from somewhere . And Kathy hates us up here . So let's hope our fun interests aren't targeted .All the taxes we pay and It's never enough  It's becoming blatantly  clear to me that our economy is nothing but a house of cards . And now I find out I'm going to hell . Well ain't that something .