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Live Fire on Great Lakes Scraped


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In 1965, the Coast Guard was ordered to respond to Viet Nam. The only firearms training we had was 5 days in boot camp. It took them 2 months for firearms and self defense training to prepare them to go. If they aren't trained on a regular basis, how can you expect them to respond to the drug dealers, aliens entries, terrorist threats and the next war?

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As I said earlier, the story was really blown out of proportion when it first came out. Given the assets of the coast guard a "zone" could be shut down for a day or two very safely and with minimal impact on charters and recs. I heard one arguement that the lead would contaminate the lake, yet we all still use lead, hell, I lost a ball last summer. The Lake has withstood insults much worse than some lead and spent brass. Most of the posts so far imply the same sentiment, The world has changed folks, like it or not, there will be times when we need to put security before comfort. The Coast Guard will always be the object of jokes and ridicule, but should we ever find ourselves in trouble we all hope they do their job and respond in time. fwiw

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I was all in favor of the CG having their target practice on the Gr Lakes, but after reading some of the subsequent press releases, I can see the other side’s point of view. (not that I necessarily agree with it though)

The 9th dist said:

1 The public will be warned on channel 16.

2 Boaters must be aware of their Lat & Long

3 Boaters must listen to Channel 16

4 Boats will be boarded & cited if they violate the zones

5 34 zones & each will be 5 miles off shore

6 Exercises will be about 5 times a yr

7 Approx 3000 rounds will be fired each time

8 Required by Presidential order for Homeland security.

The group threatening the lawsuit claims potential environmental problems, safety concerns and said the CG conducted 24 live-fire exercises in 2006 w/o any public notice. (I don’t know that they did, but it is alleged in the suit)

It’s probably good to practice standing on a rolling boat, however I was reminded that the police don’t usually target practice on city streets & that surgeons generally practice on stiffs before hitting the real operating room.

I’m not a charter but scanning the VHF I’d probably hear any announcement but guys that sit on 2, 8, or scramble & squawk on 68 all day wouldn’t hear it. Quite a few boats don’t have VHFs and do go deep. Yes, those guys may be morons but usually the morons are problems.

Fishing recreational solo a lot and still trying to figure out my handheld GPS, I don’t know where I am most of the time. (FOW – always; E or W – most of the time; Long/Lat – rarely)

Motor lifeboat pilots must be certified, but they earn that cert only on the west coast. The lakes are 50 miles wide and they wanted to only go 5 miles off shore. It would be easier to warn the freighters out in the middle of the lake that have to report their positions every couple hours. It’s not like the Niagara River is a two day drive to Oswego so one zone would have sufficed.

A 7.62 slug weighs about 8 grams & equates to almost 9,000 lbs of unpainted/uncoated pure metal per year (2,080,000 grams). Quite a few cannonballs - and some places can’t use lead shot, lead paint on hulls, etc.

Homeland security vs illegal aliens, drugs, invading armies from the north and bonifide US citizens without a scanable passport. Don’t even go there.

Oh well, moot points - Come on Spring!

Tom B.


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Just out of curiousity I checked your math. 2,080,000/8 = 260,000 rds

3000 rds 5 times a year @ 8 grams/rd= 120,000 grams or about 520 pounds of metal I would dare say the black hole in the salmon river has that in lead from back in the day!

As for security during the shoot, patrol boats or helicopters could keep the area clear.

I am not trying to argue with you personally, but I think the good greatly out weighs the bad. A coastguardsman stationed on the bar this year could be reassigned to a more hazardous station with very little notice or time to re-train.

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I can see the other side’s point of view. (not that I necessarily agree with it though)

My bad: should be 4,080,000 grams. (5times/yr x 34 zones x 8g/rnd x 3000rnd/time & zone)

I totally agree that a machine gun (or any weapon for that matter) in the hands of someone not trained is not a good thing. They should be able to practice. Not arguing here, just trying to understand the logic/merit of the arguments against it and tried to present my understanding of them & a couple statements made to me when discussing the matter.

Merry Christmas

Tom B.


ps "Come on Spring!"

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http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_B ... /zones.htm

interesting link, only 3 zones were proposed for Lake Ontario.... This is what I mean when I say it was given too much press originally. Lots of miss information by liberal news organizations.

Longline, I apologize if my last post came across as a personal attack, wasn't meant that way.

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