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FishingFool34

Plumb kicker motor to main tank

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So there is a ton of info on google about this but it seems like there are multiple ways to do it. You can use a 'Y' fitting (not to be confused with a 'T' fitting) or use can use a 1 in 2 out water fuel separator. But some of the details are lacking, do I need a primer ball for the kicker? I only have the line that goes to the small tank that comes with it, will I need to order more line? The kicker is going to be a brand new 2018 Tohatsu 8hp four stroke just fyi.

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I added a fuel and water separator and have the one line in, two out. I am using a raycor 120r fuel and water separator. Make sure if you install one that you can get to it easily and remove the bowl at the bottom for cleaning and inspection.

 

I have fuel lines with the bulbs after the filter/separator for both my main motor and kicker, bought new lines to make sure it was all good. Also the bulbs should have check valves in them. That way I do not have to worry about switching a valve during rough water times and not worry about one motor sucking fuel or any related issues with that possible problem.

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Posted (edited)

So it looks like alot of the F/W separators have 4 ports on them, 1-in and 1-out on each side. So I would just plug one of the IN ports and use both OUT ports? Also looks like the kicker uses 3/8" fuel which is the same as my main motor, so if I use anti-siphon fittings I shouldn't have to worry about sucking fuel out of the motor not in use. So my parts list is

1 F/W separator
1 primer ball hose kit (for kicker)
2 1/4 NPT 3/8" anti siphon fuel barbs (OUTS F/W separator)
1 1/4 NPT 3/8" standard fuel barb (IN F/W separator)

Edited by FishingFool34

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Yup one port for each motor. Yeah I just used a plug or whatever the plumbing term or maybe it came with one. I can't remember. Also use pipe tape for gas on the threads.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, dukhnter8 said:

I added a fuel and water separator and have the one line in, two out. I am using a raycor 120r fuel and water separator. Make sure if you install one that you can get to it easily and remove the bowl at the bottom for cleaning and inspection.

 

I have fuel lines with the bulbs after the filter/separator for both my main motor and kicker, bought new lines to make sure it was all good. Also the bulbs should have check valves in them. That way I do not have to worry about switching a valve during rough water times and not worry about one motor sucking fuel or any related issues with that possible problem.

 

Can you post a picture of your setup with the fuel lines and F/W separater? I have a 2 stroke kicker and main motor, and my fuel for the main is pre-mixed because the VRO was disabled & removed by a previous owner. I want to avoid using a portable gas tank for the kicker since my main fuel tank is pre-mixed for both motors. I already have a F/W separater.

Edited by Todd in NY

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Posted (edited)

My boat is set up with the fuel primer bulb before the F/W separater. If I understand correctly, I would need to remove the primer bulb and relocate it to the other side of the F/W separater. Then add a 2nd line with primer bulb for the kicker motor?

 

This is how mine was setup when I bought it. My marina in Clayton put the primer bulb on the other (OUT) side of the new F/W sep and put on new fuel line.

 

IMG_20170925_115306508.thumb.jpg.84c2f98b508172c83ab8b375fb85f5b1.jpg

Edited by Todd in NY

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10 hours ago, FishingFool34 said:

So it looks like alot of the F/W separators have 4 ports on them, 1-in and 1-out on each side. So I would just plug one of the IN ports and use both OUT ports? Also looks like the kicker uses 3/8" fuel which is the same as my main motor, so if I use anti-siphon fittings I shouldn't have to worry about sucking fuel out of the motor not in use. So my parts list is

1 F/W separator
1 primer ball hose kit (for kicker)
2 1/4 NPT 3/8" anti siphon fuel barbs (OUTS F/W separator)
1 1/4 NPT 3/8" standard fuel barb (IN F/W separator)

 

Thanks for asking this question! I've been too busy rewiring my boat to think about this yet, but I want the same setup so I can avoid using a portable kicker tank.

 

Where are you getting your parts? I probably need a new F/W separater because I think mine only has one IN and one OUT. My F/W filter is new, so I just need the holder. I don't "need" the glass bowl because I change the filter every year.

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1 hour ago, Todd in NY said:

 

Thanks for asking this question! I've been too busy rewiring my boat to think about this yet, but I want the same setup so I can avoid using a portable kicker tank.

 

Where are you getting your parts? I probably need a new F/W separater because I think mine only has one IN and one OUT. My F/W filter is new, so I just need the holder. I don't "need" the glass bowl because I change the filter every year.

 

That was just a brainstorming session, I plan on pricing stuff out tomorrow though.  I will post what I find with part numbers and prices.

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Thanks. I'll be shopping around too, now that my boat is rewired. I wonder if I can leave the primer bulb where it's at. It seems to run fine the way it is now, and it's been there longer than I can guess.

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The way I understood is there is a check valve on the primer bulb, so you would want them after the separator. I can take a pic of my setup after work today. I added it and new lines to my boat after I bought it a few years ago and just added new lines as the old ones looked like they were getting bad along with it having a valve for switching the lines from main to kicker.

 

It was a few years ago but I think I got my parts from a plumbing/hardware store. The parts (nipples and plug) were safe for fuel and used the yellow pipe tape for the threads (gas safe).

 

The glass also lets you see if you have water in the fuel during the year, I do replace the filter every year but it is a nice piece of mind.

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I just bought my boat last November, and I've been wondering why the primer bulb is before the separater. I'm not a mechanic, and I wasn't going to try to fix anything during the winter. But, like fixing the electrical mess on my boat, I want everything done right, to include the fuel lines.

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Never heard of discountmarinesupplies.com but they seem to have the best prices on what I need. They are associated with paypal so I'm pretty confident in ordering from them. Here's what I found...

Capture.PNG

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Posted (edited)

Yes you can use a primer bulb as a valve so fuel doesn’t get pulled from the main motor, but I have a I/O it will take the fuel with the least resistance, I put a ball valve in. Maybe my bulb was weak or even bad. I just put a ball valve in the main motor line and I ran another line with a bulb on the kicker side of the water separator. Give the bulb a few squeezes and away you go with out the kicker draining your main.

Edited by pap

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, FishingFool34 said:

So it looks like alot of the F/W separators have 4 ports on them, 1-in and 1-out on each side. So I would just plug one of the IN ports and use both OUT ports? Also looks like the kicker uses 3/8" fuel which is the same as my main motor, so if I use anti-siphon fittings I shouldn't have to worry about sucking fuel out of the motor not in use. So my parts list is

1 F/W separator
1 primer ball hose kit (for kicker)
2 1/4 NPT 3/8" anti siphon fuel barbs (OUTS F/W separator)
1 1/4 NPT 3/8" standard fuel barb (IN F/W separator)

i did this last year . i have a 8 hp tohatsu and a i/o . i used a 3 way valve to stop each motor drawing air from each other .main gas to water separator  then to 3 way valve then to each motor . i have a primer bulb to the kicker after the three way valve . ( have read post on lou that can eliminate  the 3 way valve with the use of two primer bulbs . i went with the brass 3 way rather than relying on rubber parts ) ..now here how things went the first year with it . kicker ran prefect 3/4 of the season, until the kicker ran out of gas . it took me awhile to figure out why cause it was intermittent . turn out the fuel pump on the 8 hp tohatsu worn out didn't stop working all together but wasn't strong enough to pull from main nor just the 3 gal can. i replace the fuel pump and was back in business. so i got thinking it was to much work for the kicker fuel pump to pull from the main gas tank. so i went to the way i had my 2 stroke set up. ran another fuel to the kicker and used the 3 gal tank to the kicker and finish the season with no problems . i  left the 3 way set up as is . i saved  the original fuel pump to the tohatsu and order replacement diaphragms to have a spare pump . going to give the main tank a go again . if the fuel pump wears again i done running the kicker off the main fuel tank ........... 

Edited by fisherdude

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, fisherdude said:

i did this last year . i have a 8 hp tohatsu and a i/o . i used a 3 way valve to stop each motor drawing air from each other .main gas to water separator  then to 3 way valve then to each motor . i have a primer bulb to the kicker after the three way valve . ( have read post on lou that can eliminate  the 3 way valve with the use of two primer bulbs . i went with the brass 3 way rather than relying on rubber parts ) ..now here how things went the first year with it . kicker ran prefect 3/4 of the season, until the kicker ran out of gas . it took me awhile to figure out why cause it was intermittent . turn out the fuel pump on the 8 hp tohatsu worn out didn't stop working all together but wasn't strong enough to pull from main nor just the 3 gal can. i replace the fuel pump and was back in business. so i got thinking it was to much work for the kicker fuel pump to pull from the main gas tank. so i went to the way i had my 2 stroke set up. ran another fuel to the kicker and used the 3 gal tank to the kicker and finish the season with no problems . i  left the 3 way set up as is . i saved  the original fuel pump to the tohatsu and order replacement diaphragms to have a spare pump . going to give the main tank a go again . if the fuel pump wears again i done running the kicker off the main fuel tank ........... 


Won't that issue be solved by using anti-siphon valves on the outs of the F/W separator like I want to do? I'm trying to avoid having to manually open/close valves when switching between motors.

Edited by FishingFool34

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Out board to outboard with primer bulbs inline with each motor that stop that as the check ball is designed to do exactly that.

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17 minutes ago, pap said:

Out board to outboard with primer bulbs inline with each motor that stop that as the check ball is designed to do exactly that.


I read a few posts on other sites where guys that used the bulbs as anti-siphon (check) valves, had the kicker bulb sucked completely flat by the main motor. They ended up installing some kind of check valve before the bulb to avoid possibly breaking/splitting the bulb. Not to mention now there is air in the line up to the bulb that you would need to pump full of fuel before the kicker would start. I figure with a check at the F/W separator you wouldn't have that issue.

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A good quality check valve either inline or at the water separator and/or a simple inline shut off valve between the fuel source & the primer bulb to the kicker is the only fool proof way to do it in my opinion and the many others who have done severe damage or blown there main engine due to a lean mixture. Primer bulb will work and alot get away with it, BUT alot don't & thats where the trouble comes in. That primer bulb is designed for one thing and thats a very simple inexpensive internal check type ball or flapper to facilitate getting fuel a short distance from the tank to the engine only. Example is when you have to hold the bulb vertical with the arrow of flow pointing up to even get the valve to seal & draw fuel when your pumping up you outboard, now what is it doing when it laying horizontal or slightly angled down? You have no idea ;) . Every one has there own opinions when it comes to this but I've seen to many costly repairs to the main engine or engines that could of been avoided by doing it right the first time & not relying on an inexpensive primer bulb that wasent designed for that purpose to start with. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the feedback Hank!

Edited by Todd in NY

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1 minute ago, Todd in NY said:

This is getting more confusing and more difficult with each new post. Or is it just me?


Definitely a few different ways of doing it... I'm still going with my original plan though. Main tank IN to F/W separator with anti-siphon (check) valves on both OUTs, followed by individual primer balls to each motor.

The 3 way valves with a shutoff is probably the most fool-proof way to do it, but you have to manually switch the fuel on/off. Where I want to put my stuff isn't the easiest place to get to so I'm trying to avoid that. With the check valves on the F/W and inside the primer balls, there shouldn't be any issues sucking air/fuel from which ever motor is off at the time. I'm still doing a little research but seems like my plan should be ok.

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Posted (edited)

L&M replied right as I was typing my reply. I'm going to explore a few options before I make a decision.

Edited by Todd in NY

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Todd in NY said:

L&M replied right as I was typing my reply. I'm going to explore a few options before I make a decision. I might have to re-route the fuel lines in the splash well because of where my primer bulb is installed.


With your setup you are definitely going to want to switch the primer ball to the OUT side of the F/W. But you could save some money and keep the F/W you have now and just install a 3-way shutoff valve after the F/W then primer balls to both motors and you would be all set. Your setup looks pretty easy to access so a manual ON/OFF valve shouldn't be an issue for you.

Reason I want a 4 port F/W is because it doubles as a T letting me go 1 IN and 2 OUT, plus added benefit of the F/W itself.

Edited by FishingFool34

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2 hours ago, FishingFool34 said:


Won't that issue be solved by using anti-siphon valves on the outs of the F/W separator like I want to do? I'm trying to avoid having to manually open/close valves when switching between motors.

i also was looking at the ck valve to use .i was told that the in line anti-siphon has the potential to still draw air . so i played it safe and went with the shut off valve . Hank was one of the marina mechanics i talk to  before doing my install . how about a inline shut vale on the kicker fuel hose outside the transom .any ways i wish you good luck with the upcoming job .

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Posted (edited)

I finally just realized that the marina who fine tuned my motor and fuel system last October & November also relocated my primer bulb. Ive been so busy rewiring the boat that I didn't notice the new primer bulb location. This is what it looks like now. I'm working with Hank to add a kicker line now. Thanks for the great discussion on this topic! And yes, this water separater is easy to access from inside the boat.

 

IMG_20180417_120422000.thumb.jpg.656a3226ac9d3ed105aded1cdf290c02.jpg

Edited by Todd in NY

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I know that when I had my 18’ with a 88SPL V4 and my kicker 15hp Force, I tried everything to keep the kicker from drawing the fuel out of the main, that the kicker even sucked the primer ball flat on the main. We ran a T in the line from the tank with primer bulb in line to each motor. Younger and not in the know I just disconnected the main. Now I use a 3 way valve with a I/O I didn’t want to possibly damage the main fuel pump even though I took a plug out of the W/F separator that’s before my steel lines and the mains fuel pump. I personally don’t trust any check valve system, I’ve seen to many fail on the job, there’s even a check ball in your fuel tank that stuck and shut and closed the fuel off to my main. I know when I manually open or close a valve it is just that open or closed.

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