bulletbob

I use a Garmin much like yours, and the image looks like what I see all the time.. That was a school of bait suspended just above bottom... The mid depth clutter is a common sight as well.. It can be an area of fragmented chopped up vegetation suspended through the water column, on Cayuga it might be a concentration of fleas, or might even be an area of thinly dispersed small bait fish. I didn't see a lot of larger marks on the periphery of your "bait ball".. You might not have had many fish down there... OR, the bottom might have been paved with them, just lying on or near bottom totally inactive, and not eating, pursuing,, or even moving,.. lakers can and do shut down at times, like many other fish. As far as seeing your jig, I often can't as well, and other times, it is clear as a bell, and I can see its movement in detail not matter how slightly I may move it.. If your boat is perfectly motionless, and your jig is anywhere near the sonar cone, and you still can't see it, you may want to check your transducer angle/placement.. btw, A fish finder is a rough guide, NOT a magic bullet that can't miss.. I have had wonderful fishing on barren looking bottom with not a bait ball or fish echo in sight, and have had dead, dreary fishless days without ever getting even a touch with screens that were lit up like a Christmas tree with lots of bait, and big V marks all around it... Keep up what you are doing, find bait, look for fish near the bait, and before long, you'll hit it when the fish are active and chasing..... Then hang on.. bob

Do the majority of Walleyes suspend in Otisco, or are there usually sufficient enough numbers on or near bottom so they can be fished for with jigging, or bait/bottom fishing techniques?... bob

There was a wonderful salt water sport fishing writer that wrote several famous books on fresh and saltwater angling, and was a regular contributor/ writer in many outdoor mags and was an editor for Salt Water Sportsman magazine for 20 years... Name was Frank Woolner. Something he wrote about tournaments and angling in general many decades ago, has stuck in my mind for probably close to 45-50 years and I would like to share it,, very short and to the point- "Angling should be a contemplative sport, NOT a competitive sport"

To those that think bass tourneys are a "good" thing... Go to the weigh in/release area a day or two after, and look at all the dead bass.. BIG breeders... Do you REALLY think that a bass can stand being thrown into a livewell for hours and then smashed against the fiberglass as the boat rockets all over the lake at 50 MPH.??.. Cayuga was once considered one of the very best LMB lakes in the entire US.. For YEARS!... Then the tournaments started every year by the dozen... They decimated the northern end of that lake with the endless tournaments that are "good for the local economy".. Sorry NOT buying it. Whats good for the local economy is a good supply of fish that average people want to come and catch, and will support local businesses long term as they visit regularly... Tournaments one after another just destroy a bass fishery.. Its nonsense to think they help it in any way at all... bob

I know Chinooky was just having fun, but in reality if you see a few boats working an area with jigs, that typically could be a good starting point.. If I see a few guys jigging hard, and sticking around, I figure they might know something I don't... NEVER go right where they are fishing.. Go a couple hundred yards from where they are, and keep an eye on the screen for bait balls, and individual marks.. These days when you see more than one boat jigging an area say a half mile long, you can bet that its a zone that produces at least occasionally... The fish are not everywhere, and the more you fish the more productive spots you will find.. Always keep your distance, more than you think is correct, but also realize that good fishermen know where the fish are located, and use it to your advantage if you can do it without becoming obnoxious.

I can't offer specific advice for Canadice, but can tell you this- You will always have a better chance at picky lakes VERY early in the am.. I have seen them shut down at around 6:30 after hitting like crazy at 5-6 am...Just like someone shut off a light switch.. I have always found the lakers on Keuka, Seneca and Cayuga to hit best very early morning, and I mean first like first light twilight before the sun comes over the treetops... Of course you can catch lakers even at mid day, and some guys have the knack to get out at 10 am and still do great, but not me... Early morning has always been the best time, and in mid summer I have seen a hot bite shut down well before 7 am many times... Get out to your jigging spot where you know there are a few lakers,while its still a bit dark out one time, and see if you agree....bob

There are several articles on the net about this... Search "making a boat hard top"... Here's one... https://goneoutdoors.com/build-own-boat-hardtop-5498402.html

absolutely correct. The sawbellies were never supposed to be there in the first place. They are salt water invasives that came into this area initially through the Welland Canal. However, now that they are here, they are the main reason all the trollers can catch big trout and salmon in the great lakes as well as the finger lakes.. Without them, the fish would be smaller and less abundant, and its doubtful the populations would do as well as they do. I see them today as a "necessary evil". The fish in Keuka need a food source thats rich in calories... Landlocked alewives seem the best bet..If they get too abundant?- Do what all the southern states do to help control them-Put stripers in the lakes. NY has never had much interest in them, but a LOT of states do, and the anglers there love them. In any case, Keuka needs help.. Its astounding how depressed that entire fishery has become compared to 15-20 years ago. As I mentioned earlier, I don't even bother anymore.. Switched to Skaneateles when I don't fish Cayuga... For me anyway, the fishing has been better there... bob

big heads thin bodies on fish in any body of water anywhere is bad news.. Underfed fish, plain and simple as we all know... I still say the DEC needs to forget ciscoes and just load the lake back up with sawbellies, so these fish can eat.

Les gave a fine opinion based on long experience.. I am not a kid at 67, and am not native to the FL Region.. I moved here exactly 30 years ago. June 1991. I was amazed at the fishing. As stated, I sold a Wellcraft Center Console I used fishing the bays and ocean in NJ, simply because, i didn't need it to catch fish.. I recall working as a tech/mechanic in Ithaca, and running down to the lake mid day during my lunch hour, casting from shore, and catching big Browns, Salmon, Lakers, SMB, Pike, Pickerel, massive panfish,,, once in a while a 25 pound or better Carp, just wonderful fishing I thought would never end... Until it did... This is a great forum, and there are a lot of great guys that are wonderful, knowledgeable fishermen. The only regret I have is that a lot of guys think the lakes are fine as long as the stocked trout get fat on sawbellies, and hit their deep trolled lures in open water... Those of us that fish for panfish and species like Pike and Bass have noticed that some of these populations are in freefall. Invasives and over development are killing these lakes- its that simple.. More noticable in near shore habitats than in the cold water zones, and it seems to grow worse every year.. I hope things change for the better in my lifetime.... bob

I understand where you are coming from.. I agree with some of what you posted, but have some disagreements as well.. Sawbellies aren't native and don't belong in these lakes. agreed.. However, neither are browns or rainbows, and I think the landlocks are only native in Cayuga.. Once those species were introduced long ago, the natural balance of the lakes had to change as well. Nowadays, if the sawbellies collapse, so might the salmonid populations.. Smelt are decimated compared to years ago, Gobies have infested some of the lakes are have displaced many small bottom dwelling species that can't compete[Sculpins].. Bass and panfish don't need sawbellies and do fine without them.. Not sure this board would even exist without sawbellies in he Fingers and the Great Lakes, as this board is 95% trollers, and the first thing most of them do is find the bait concentrations, which in the modern age is sawbellies... I agree that these lakes would be better off without sawbellies, BUT, they might be useless to the multiple thousands of guys that troll these lakes for the stocked trout and salmon that feed exclusively on sawbellies these days.. yes the are eating gobies as well, but even with lakers, I find 100 sawbellies for every goby in thier stomachs.. All these lakes are not what they were a few decades ago... Invasives and over development have really taken their toll. There was a point in the 90's where I sols my boats, as I was catching all the fish I wanted just by fishing from shore. Yes even trout and landlocks, except for a few ,onths mid summer, and even then I caught a few... bass, big perch, Pike, quarter to half pound bluegills and rock bass, all day every day on both Cayuga and Seneca... Once the mussels, fleas, Gobies, rampant development came around, everything changed, especially around the shorelines.. I have told the story on these pages about how I stood on the shores of seneca with my kids in the 90's ... Tossed a few garden worms into the water and the second they started to sink, there were foot long flashes coming from every direction, just nice fish milling around everywhere.. These days, I do the exact same thing, and watch the worm sink unmolested, all the way to the bottom, where it just wigglkes around... On Cayuga, if I do the same, when the worm gets near the bottom, there are no foot long flashes anymore as the worm sinks, but when it get near bottom, it is torn into by hundreds of Gobies swarming from every direction... Yes the stocked sawbelly fattened trout trolling is still good, which I know is the focal point of this forum, but believe me, these lakes are not near what they should be .. The life in them is not what it was 20 years ago. I fear for their future,,, bob

Not looking to argue.. Too old for that crap!.. I am no fishery biologist, but know the fish need something to eat.... Just wondering why they can't stock sawbellies.. I suppose Ciscoes are native to the lake, but I don't think they are as prolific as the sawbellies..

If they want to stock something in the lake, they ought to keep dumping sawbellies in there, every year until they stick.. That lake needs a forage base... bob

To be honest, I Only fish at Keuka rarely these days.. I simply don't catch fish there anymore, and i just don't see any screens either... When I started fishing there about 16-17 years ago, I caught so many lakers I would get sick of looking at them.. 30 fish in a few hours was no big deal... They were small even then compared to other lakes... Screens would light up like a Christmas tree, with lakers up and down the water column... The bag limit even went to 5 fish on lakers before any of the other lakes if I recall. Past several years, I see no more fish on the color screen, and I just don't catch fish there anymore... I suppose I could always be there at the wrong time, or at the wrong place every time, or all the lures and techniques i used for years there to good effect are no longer valid, or something... I just no longer catch anything there, at least not enough to keep me going back... I might be missing something, and I know the bait is gone, but in my opinion so are a LOT of the lakers..... The screens simply don't lie,, areas I used to fish that were thick with lakers are now totally devoid of them... I usually fish from mid lake north,, I dunno, maybe the lakers have better feed at the south end, and thats why I don't see them ,, Also, I see a LOT less guys jigging for lakers than I did at one time, and thats always a tell tale sign,, Where there are fish available, you can be sure there will be fishermen after them... I simply don't see as many as I did years ago... Honestly it could all be on me.. Perhaps I have totally lost all my skill as a fisherman.. For me, Keuka has become a lost cause, I just can't catch lakers there any longer... Even the bass and panfish don't seem as good, but again, I have lost confidence there, and don't fish it as much as I used to..... I do NOT think taking more fish out of the lake is a long term solution..bob