No Comm Agreement Proposal

[troubles]

Ok votes are in for Niagara. Looks like about 58% of the teams signed the agreement. That indicates the majority wants it closed but is a long way from 90%. I was told that if my team did not sign then we wouldn't get any respect or creditibility for any high placing in the tournaments. Hope this intimidation doesn't continue at the remainder of tournaments.First 90% is totally absurd.It doesn't take 90% of the vote to change elected officials or the president.How about no threats or intimidation tactics for the remainder of the year.How about the guys who picked up the ball on this get it changed to more than 50% for any tournament or at the end of the year for next year. We all joined the tournaments under a set of rules for 2011. Again I hope that those who are in favor of closed respect the opinion of those who have other opinions.

[troubles]

And lets try not to trash any friendships over this issue

[ray koziatek]

Capt. Pete ,

Thanks for your efforts .Despite the No Com. Many of the teams that finished "In the money" jumped on board with this and did very well..... Five outa seven in the ams were no com.. If the above list is complete...?

[dreamsteelie]

Hi Greg and Ray,

Ray, thanks for your thoughts.

Greg, I cannot speak for others of defend others who may have did what you mentioned. I personally did not and only offered the option with "hope" that others would jump aboard and support it. Obviously, this horse has been beaten and I do not believe that the Pro-Am Committee will add a non-com. rule and regardless of 58% or 99% participation in the voluntary agreement. They have their reasons to keep it open and we will leave it at that. The why's, what's, etc.. do not matter and it is their call to keep things the way they are. However, they provided a means for us allow on a voluntary basis.

That's a choice and may not be for everyone. So be it.

However, there has been enough people (Am and Pro) that desire it, so.... Here we go.

This agreement will be available at the Orleans Co. Pro-AM event with a slight modification to the start time for closed comm. (Proposed by Capt. Vince and others)

I also believe there will be a separate calcutta available for the teams that choose to sign the no comm. agreement.

Capt. Pete

VisionQuest

[troubles]

Let me get this clarified. A voluntary agreement on the start time? Or a rule change?

[ray koziatek]

Capt. Pete I Thought I was Gonna have to report another AM boat was giving clues as to what they were using...While passin another Am boat I saw this :mooning: ,my mind was torn between pullin our setup and changing to the" Proctoligst "or the "Crazy Bit@h' fly...then i turned to the crew for any info to the "browneye Spoon"?? But was informed this is a common greeting between competators during the derby.

To protect the "Gill-T" party i wont mention the team till further investagation .

[Gill-T]

"Mooning" is not communicating unless the cheeks are moved back and forth in a morse-code fashion OR if there is visual discharge.

[Shade]

GregDale,

I do not know where not sighning the no comm agreement targeted anyones credability. I am sure that was not the intent by Capt. Pete or Capt. Vince. Your credability will be questioned if you sign it and then go out and break it. All of us who support thr agreement are saying you can not communicate from the start of your division fishing time until the end(5:30am - 1pm for Am Division and 6am-2pm for the Pro Division). If there are some who disagree with this consept then that is there right and we have to respect that. There where teams who did not sign it because they feel the rules are in place and some who say that no comm gives the home team the advantage. No where does it say you can not talk to your buddy prior to the start of the event or even after the fishing times are completed wether your at the bar, out to dinner or snapin a cap at the boat you can communicate all ya want. If there are questions or concerns either way on this topic then contact Pete or Vince by email, pm or in person and voice your opinion but like ya said without trashing frienships or getting abusive. Let them gather all the pros and cons and see what can be agreed upon, but something has to change. I am talking from first hand experience of what I SAW while an Observer a few tournaments back. It is wrong, in my opinion, for a Pro Team to tell an Am Team where the fish are, what to use, how deep to fish and speed to run, nor is it right to get info from teams who are not in the event and an Am team helping a pro team with info as well. The Pro/Am is becomming a tournament of WHO YA KNOW NOT WHAT YA KNOW. Lets debate this as gentlemen and not trash anyones reasoning or believes and see what can be done to bring this event where it has the potential to grow.

Howie

[troubles]

Pete,

If the Pro Am wont change the rule about non communication they shouldn't about start time.

Shade,

Dont get me wrong I would sign but my teams majority doesn't agree. I am working to change that for the next tournament.

Just can't believe that the rule can't be changed if thats what the majority of teams want. Just wanted to point out that there should not be threats or intimidation tactics from those who have signed.

[Fishtails]

I was told that if my team did not sign then we wouldn't get any respect or creditibility for any high placing in the tournaments. Hope this intimidation doesn't continue at the remainder of tournaments

I hope that those who are in favor of closed respect the opinion of those who have other opinions.

Greg,

I thought that a lot teams really stepped up to the plate and made a statement, and those teams should hold their head high and take a bow! If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that you feel if your team didn't sign the no communication agreement but did better than some teams that did....you deserve equal or greater respect from your peers? That just isn't going to happen and I am sure you realize that. Since I fished the AM division in this event, I will direct my comments to that division only, and I thought the participation was outstanding! Pete made a comment earlier in this thread that sorta left out the AMs. This was addressed and the AM teams made their voice be heard!! There can be no doubt where the opinion of the "weekend warriors" lies on the communication issue.

Now, are you suggesting that a team such as our team, which was only one of the many teams that DID sign, and put ourselves at a serious disadvantage over the team that ultimately won, that we should respect their accomplishment in the same manner we would had a no communication team won? That just isn't going to happen because my understanding is that they openly thanked a pro team on stage for information that put them on the fish. Even had that not come out, it would have been assumed. The teams that didn't "man up", won't garner the same respect for an otherwise equal accomplishment from their peers...nor should they. They still collect their check and played by the rules set forth by the committee, so they get "crowned" winner of that event, as they should. IMO, there will always be an asterix though, but that is my opinion only.

I agree that friendships should not be lost over this!! That would be a real shame and it's a great point that you made Greg. Some close friends on the Pro side that I fish with found themselves in that very position. The captian wanted to sign, but a friend/teammate did not and the vote was split. IMO, he made the right choice in that event by NOT signing. Hurting a friendship would NEVER be worth it. Now, they will have more time to consider things and go from there.

Congrats to Ivan and team Get It Wet for winning the Pro Division AND signing the no communication agreement....job well done Ivan and crew !!!

[troubles]

Rod,

What I heard the Am team say was that the information was passed to them during pre fishing and not during tournament hours.Sure you have your facts straight? Because if that's true then Pro teams who signed already broke the agreement.

[Fishtails]

Greg, I never said "when" they said they got that information. If I am correct, the team they mentioned DID sign the no communication agreement, so it is obvious the information exchange was during non tournament hours....and IMO there is nothing wrong with that....we all do it !! All I am saying is that it will be assumed by some of their peers they probably used their phone during fishing hours to gather information that "may have" helped them catch their winning box of fish. Obviously, they have connections (by their own admission). They choose not to sign the agreement for a reason.

Don't get me wrong.... IMO anyone who wins a Pro Am, or even finishes in the $$ deserves much credit!! I do applaud the winners and I want to be clear on that. They beat some very tough teams and first place is not an easy task no matter what. They played fair and won by the rules. The reward is a big check and a trophy. All I implied was that in the eyes of their peers, there will be some credibility questions. That being said...they won fair and square

Peer pressure is how things get done Greg, just a fact of life.

[troubles]

Rod,

Glad you clarified your statement. Don't think all parties who want non-communication should give up at all on changing the rules.

[SCREAMER 1]

Hey Greg! Who had time to call or answer their phone this weekend anyway? Fishing was at it's best! The only time I looked at my phone was to see what time it was when the 12th fish hit the deck! Also my team does agree on changing the rule to no communication for next year. Then it will be 100 %! Then there won't be friendships lost!

[rolmops]

Which teams that are A-Tom-Mik sponsored did sign?

[Time Out]

Cornelis,

I see roughly 6 A-TOM-MIK sponsored teams that signed it. There maybe more. Just because a couple didn't, no need for calling out anybody. It was a teams decision to sign or not to sign the agreement. There were other sponsored teams from different manufacturers that didn't sign as well.

[rolmops]

Cornelis,

I see roughly 6 A-TOM-MIK sponsored teams that signed it. There maybe more. Just because a couple didn't, no need for calling out anybody. It was a teams decision to sign or not to sign the agreement. There were other sponsored teams from different manufacturers that didn't sign as well.

Thanks Jeff. That clears up what might have turned into a nasty rumor.

Cornelis.

[A-TOM-MIK]

Just an FYI

Greg, I heard much of what you had mentioned floating around while my stay in Wilson prior to this event, I agree with you that the pressures mentioned to me were not right IMO. On that note I did not or do not endorse this Closed Communication agreement. Even though Pete is a great friend who I admire and look up to I was clearly idle to the agreement and noted my feelings to Pete very clearly and belligerently of how the No Communication issue "should be handled"

I also feel for the "clear overwhelming majority" of teams that exert the energy, interest, commitment, involvement and investment into these events.

The 2nd biggest rumor I heard floating about before the event was the "wish" to add a box (that could be checked) on the registration form for those "for or against" closed communication, for the ultimate change of the current rule, my response was the same as it has been. You will never see it !! As it is not an option under current coordination.

To respond to the A-TOM-MIK mention, on the Pro side alone there were 11 Staffed, Associated or Sponsored A-TOM-MIK Teams who placed in the top 15, out of them 11 teams 8 signed. I can also add that 10 of the 11 teams would like nothing more than for the rule to be changed (and I am not so sure of just 1, they may as well)

Tom

[troubles]

Thanks to all who replied.My only intent on this post was to point out that we all should try to convince and not force our views on others. When the rule was changed years ago that opened communication I was a supporter. I was told by many who refused to fish the following year that it would hurt the tournament and not be a good thing. I was wrong and they were right based on the fact that the outcome of the event can change within 2 hrs of the finish. I have changed my view as have many others who have signed the agreement.Fact of the matter is all rules for all events should be reviewed and revised as required if the event is to survive and grow.Been fishing the Pro Ams since the mid 90's and I haven't see a great deal of growth hope it survives.And I'll never believe change can't happen.

[ray koziatek]

How about one of these handed out to each observer ?

http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-% ... _THUMBNAIL

[troubles]

You know Ray -I agree and thats a rule that should be reviewed also.

[dreamsteelie]

Ray,

That post was hilarious. I dont think mooning constitutes the form of comm. we are discussing.

These are all good comments without hard feelings. We must all understand that this is a "choice" that may not be for everyone altho my personal opinion is that "we" should do well in an event on our own and without outside influence.

The Pro-Am may never accept a no comm. rule. We know that but its cool that we as a group can choose to voluntarily do what we feel is right by NOT communicating. Democracy at it's best.

The success of many of the guys who signed it speaks for itself. Even if 50% agree and follow thru, we are better that 100% open comm. My personal opinion is that winning or doing well "on our own" is a sweet sense of satisfaction that "no one" can steal or taint by saying "they helped do it for them". But for the guys who want comm. or feel that help is desired or don't care, then so be it. This is about choice. Thats all and this is a peaceful avenue to do it in and we THANK the Pro-AM folks for opening the door for us.

Captain Pete

Vision Quest

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

The Bottom Line is most rules are created to make things as equitable as possible for contestants. Opening comm creates all kinds of inequity. Should come down to who did their homework, made the right decisions on their own accord, and execution.

[ladyblugill]

so really what is equitable anymore? it's just a fishing tournament. do you really think the people from the east end who come to fish the west end tournaments have the same advantage as the locals or visa-versa. how about the out of state fisherman who probably in the current times do more to support this fishery and these tournaments then the local residents, myself include. i don't fish these things but am tired of hearing all the crying.toughen it up and quit trying to promote your own agenda.

[Shade]

Ladybluegill,

before you comment read the agreement. There is nothing that says ya can not communicate before the event starting time or after first days event. All it says is ya can not communicate from your division starting times through finishing time. We are taling about 8 hours each day. The Niagara has the biggest draw then the other three and the non comm thread was started by a highly respected fishermen from the east end. The biggest numbers of teams who dropped out of the pro/am because of the comm rule change where from the east end.

Shade