But The Fishing Was So Good!

[Yankee Troller]

I'm sure I'll get roasted again for my concerns, but the stats just keep getting worse. All I'm asking for at this point is for someone "in charge" to care enough to study why. Isn't that a part of what biologist do? The data is right here, and it's also on the North shore derby leaderboard. Maybe there is nothing we can do about it. Maybe there is? This whole Great Lakes fishery was an experiment, and look what it turned into. Can we try something for Christ sakes?

 

[GAMBLER]

In the past, they didn't want to bring in new genetics because they didn't want to mess with the current strain that has adapted to naturally reproducing in Lake Ontario.  They could do Triploid salmon.  They are sterile so they wouldn't mess with the genetics.  Stock a percentage of the kings stocked as triploids.  We could have numbers of kings AND some giants lingering around.  We were told for years that the salmon size was down due to the bait biomass being smaller.  The last couple of years, the biomass has been way up.  By the logic of what we have been told for years, we should have giant kings again.  I'm with you 100%.  Something needs to be done.  

[BRsnow]

I agree, I loved the glory days and wish they could bring it back. When I can drive to South Dakota and catch the same size kings as you catch in Lake Ontario there has to be a problem:-)

[luckystrike]

Just guessing...but maybe cormorants reducing bait fish populations and way more fisherman days is part of the reason why there is steady downward trend in the heaviest salmon caught. I think the same general trend is happening on the north shore.       I was looking on the Lake Ontario Management Unit website and they have links to annual reports from 1991 to 2024 and a phone number and email contact info.   GLFC -- Lake Ontario Committee  The fisheries Biologists and Technicians should have some idea what is happening.    Personal observation...Fishing was still good on the north shore this summer, my biggest was 27 lbs but I do remember the glory days of catching 30 to 33 lb salmon  back around 1997 to 2002.

[BRsnow]

49 minutes ago, luckystrike said:

Just guessing...but maybe cormorants reducing bait fish populations and way more fisherman days is part of the reason why there is steady downward trend in the heaviest salmon caught. I think the same general trend is happening on the north shore.       I was looking on the Lake Ontario Management Unit website and they have links to annual reports from 1991 to 2024 and a phone number and email contact info.   GLFC -- Lake Ontario Committee  The fisheries Biologists and Technicians should have some idea what is happening.    Personal observation...Fishing was still good on the north shore this summer, my biggest was 27 lbs but I do remember the glory days of catching 30 to 33 lb salmon  back around 1997 to 2002.

I would be amazed if there are more fishing days targeting salmon than back in the day. It used to be bumper to bumper.

[chinook35]

14 hours ago, BRsnow said:

I would be amazed if there are more fishing days targeting salmon than back in the day. It used to be bumper to bumper.

 

[chinook35]

The 80’s , 90’s and early 2000’s we tried to count the number of boats in Mexico bay before dawn from our camp on Sandy Pond. The nav lights were in the 100’s 

there were far more fisherpeople on the water back then 

the line for the launch at Mexico Point was nearly back to Rt 104 most mornings and I got turned away because the parking lot was full

i don’t believe the cormorants are a serious threat to mature alewives because of the depth they usually haunt. Spring , when they are spawning may be a different story 

the kings ( at least many of them ) are returning to spawn early ( not 3 and 4 years)  that has got to have a lot to do with the size 

New genetics from pacific salmon are needed to get the size back 

[GAMBLER]

21 hours ago, luckystrike said:

Just guessing...but maybe cormorants reducing bait fish populations and way more fisherman days is part of the reason why there is steady downward trend in the heaviest salmon caught. I think the same general trend is happening on the north shore.       I was looking on the Lake Ontario Management Unit website and they have links to annual reports from 1991 to 2024 and a phone number and email contact info.   GLFC -- Lake Ontario Committee  The fisheries Biologists and Technicians should have some idea what is happening.    Personal observation...Fishing was still good on the north shore this summer, my biggest was 27 lbs but I do remember the glory days of catching 30 to 33 lb salmon  back around 1997 to 2002.

The baitfish population has been way higher the past couple of years compared to 10-15 years ago.  Fish were bigger back then with less bait.

[luckystrike]

 From the Great lakes sport fishing council, 2024 Special Report for Lake Ontario. (Report attached & dated April 2025 ) 

While Lake Ontario Alewife biomass has declined since the early 

1990s, survey data from other Great Lakes indicates Lake 

Ontario supports the greatest Alewife biomass. 

Chinook Salmon fishing was outstanding in 2024 with mean catch rates ranking the 2nd highest on record in 39 years 

of conducting the survey. From April-July, Chinook catch rates were nearly double the 10-year average in all four lake 

management areas. Although Chinook fishing cooled off in August and September due to unstable temperature and windy lake conditions, this fishing season will be recorded as one of 

the all-time best. 

  Salmon size has been trending lower recently, likely due to the high numbers of salmon and trout in the lake, 

however, mean weight of age-3 Chinook in August was still 

19.2 lbs. with some fish weighing over 30 lbs. A trophy 37 lb Chinook

was caught in June.

Lake-Ontario-Report.pdf

[BRsnow]

1 minute ago, luckystrike said:

 From the Great lakes sport fishing council, 2024 Special Report for Lake Ontario. (Report attached & dated April 2025 ) 

While Lake Ontario Alewife biomass has declined since the early 

1990s, survey data from other Great Lakes indicates Lake 

Ontario supports the greatest Alewife biomass. 

Chinook Salmon fishing was outstanding in 2024 with mean catch rates ranking the 2nd highest on record in 39 years 

of conducting the survey. From April-July, Chinook catch rates were nearly double the 10-year average in all four lake 

management areas. Although Chinook fishing cooled off in August and September due to unstable temperature and windy lake conditions, this fishing season will be recorded as one of 

the all-time best. 

  Salmon size has been trending lower recently, likely due to the high numbers of salmon and trout in the lake, 

however, mean weight of age-3 Chinook in August was still 

19.2 lbs. with some fish weighing over 30 lbs. A trophy 37 lb Chinook

was caught in June.

Lake-Ontario-Report.pdf 2.31 MB · 0 downloads

We used to catch many mid 30lbers per trip. Maybe not as many fish total, but it was amazing. We caught a 42lb that was not even top 10 for that week. Seems there is a disagreement on is less but bigger better or more but smaller.

[Gator]

I remember the '80s too. We were chartering at that point as I was growing up down in Bath, but the size of the kings was amazing. Unfortunately, the history of nearly every fishery where a new species is established in a prime environment suggests that this type of size is unsustainable. I don't believe that there is any possibility of our returning to those glory days.

 

However, that isn't to say that we can't balance size and numbers with a measured approach. I like Brian's idea of stocking some triploid fish - at least it would allow us to distinguish between the role of genetics versus environment on king size. The triploid population would need to be genetically distinct, optimally a throwback to the original strain, and since they're sterile, they wouldn't interfere with our naturalized strain. That having been said, there's a fair amount of data indicating that triploid fish are generally inferior to diploids, but it's worth a try.

 

I suspect LO fishermen would gladly help to survey their catch and provide data if it meant even a remote possibility for 40 lb salmon again. At the very least, it would look like DEC was listening to the stakeholders...