LongLine

Yes, you're right. 2020 is the year the border was closed and no lampricide applied to Lk Ontario and Erie. (Although 6 tribs had been scheduled for each - North & South shores) Closure was from March '20 to Nov '21 for non-essential traffic and many sites deferred in 2021 on US side. https://sealamprey.org/pubs/slcp/annual_reports/ANNUAL_REPORT_2020.pdf Treatments normally done in spring. Numbers shown in 2021 link occurred in July/Aug '21. The Movie & scientists did a great job but I couldn't tell what the small fish were that survived while the lamprey died. They didn't look like juvenile salmonid to me. (I could be wrong) I'd like to know why the CD concern on that trib for steelhead.

Sea Lampreys are not like salmon in that they are not known to return to their natal streams to spawn. Rather than being guided by their sense of "smell" to where they were born or imprinted, they seek out flowing clean streams. Hence, they spread westward thru the Great Lakes thus caused greater damage in Huron & Superior and were first detected there than in Erie. Lampricide treatments are done every 3-5 years by GLFC, across all the lakes. (unlike Champlain where they occur every 2 years by NYSDEC and USF&WS) Ontario, Erie, Huron & Superior are Federal waters bound by treaties. GLFC is a joint venture and supported by both countries. The SR area of the lake is too important to the NY fishery and economy so DEC will protect it. (although they have to fight for state funds also) As to Lampricide treatment in Lake Ontario: In 2021: 8 CD tribs and 3 US tribs were treated. The 3 US were done by NYSDEC in the SR area. Other US tribs were deferred. In 2022: 6 CD and 9 US tribs were treated. In 2023: 0 CD and 4 US tribs were treated. Some of the reasons given for reduced treatment on CD side were low flow in a couple tribs and feared effects on steelhead. https://www.glfc.org/pubs/slcp/annual_reports/ANNUAL_REPORT_2021.pdf https://fr.glfc.org/pubs/slcp/annual_reports/ANNUAL_REPORT_2022.pdf https://lampreycontrol.org/pubs/slcp/annual_reports/ANNUAL_REPORT_2023.pdf If you read through the above links, you'll see CD went "hog-wild" with Lampricide in Superior & Huron. (2 and 3 times what US did.) Lampricide, although very good, is not the silver bullet/cure-all. You can also see the introduction of "Alternative Lamprey Control" that includes traps and migration barriers. On Lake Ontario, they installed and maintain 13 migration barriers on the North shore whereas only 3 on the US. (all on the east end) Some questions. Turning to "Alternative Control" do Lampreys build up some immunity? How effective are the barriers? Does the Lampricide affect steelhead? Regardless, Lamprey control efforts need to be supported. Congress has a "Great Lakes Task Force" that late last month submitted a bill to fund money for the Great Lakes. The NYS members are Tim Kennedy, Nick Langworthy, John Mannion, Joe Morelle and Claudia Tenney. Every state bordering the Great Lakes has members. They need to be contacted along with other representatives in your area to support the fishery.

There was no lampricide treatments on US side of Lake-O in 2020 but there was on the Canadian side. Canada has many more tribs and feeder creeks than US has. CA has over 350 whereas US has a little over 200. (Oswego River has at least 8) US treatment is mostly a federal program that extends over all the Great Lakes. An A1 Lamprey mark is defined as a Lake trout mark that has "no healing; fresh mark; with a definite opening through the skin into muscle." They don't count lesser wounds. According to this GLFC publication for Lake-O: https://www.glfc.org/pubs/pdfs/4.1.3 SL Status_Ontario (Mar 2023).pdf The average adult Lamprey Abundance index for 2020-2023 was 9,600. For 2023 it was 19,000. Back in '85, A1 marks count was 4.0 per 100 LT. For 2020, it was 0.5. In 2023 it was 3.0. It took 25 years to go from 4.0 down to 0.5. Marks on Browns and Salmon are not counted. (I've caught Kings in the last few years, as have many other guys, that have some kind of mark on them.) According to the GLFC documentary "The Fish Thief: a Great Lakes Mystery", The Sea Lamprey thrives & reproduces better in cleaner streams. And they say that is why destruction in Huron & Michigan was initially more severe than in Erie. Note that Lake-O and tribs have been getting cleaner and cleaner every year. It amazes me that some want to sit back and watch while a few fight for a resource for the watchers to enjoy.

2nd is AI.

A single sea lamprey can lay 100,000 eggs: Sea Lamprey (Petromyzon marinus) | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Potential of not treating our streams is not a lesson I want to learn the hard way. Just like some kids play with fire even though their parents told them not to. I guess kids just have to learn...oh well. What's a bunch of 3rd degree burns? oh well. The kid doesn't have to pay the hospital bills...oh well. Kind of hard to pay down debt when you reduce income. 6 figure-plus salaries for 19 yr olds...oh well. Million-dollar photo-ops at super bowl and nascar...oh well.

Thinking we're going to see a lot of 26-29 Lbr's but the money fish will be a 34 in the fall off the SR. Lakers will probably be huge though. Glad you like the puzzles. Have to get past the next snowstorm before I get the boat ready tho.

Very true. Back in the early 80's when there was a real push for corporate out-sourcing, companies shut down their US metal smelting/working and plating operations claiming expense and environmental rules. There was big movement away from metal and wood and towards plastic components in just about everything. Couple years ago I made some "ABU" spinners which were great for Pike. (shows my age) Wire, paint & hooks were US but beads, bodies & blades were not. My son has been carving some really good wood fishing plugs. Unfortunately Balsa doesn't grow in the US.

Fish shaped (as the fins help) first. Torpedoes 2nd.

Again back to fishing: What fishing gear that you use was made in the US? (Note: if the box says "made in US" means the box was made in the US) I know McCoy line is US, Eagle Claw hooks are US. St Croix rods are US. Penn reels (Senators only) are US. What else?

When's the last time your favorite gas station actually ran out of gas? Are you sure that the plastic over the handle didn't just mean the pump needed repair or reprogramming? Have you ever noticed when it's just announced that the price of a barrel is going to go up that the pump price immediately jumps. Yet when it's announced that the price has fallen, it takes a month or more for the pump price to go down? Gov't controls imports. (via tariffs & laws) Gov't can also control exports. i.e. executive orders forbidding selling chips to China, or arms to certain countries etc. There's never been a gov't restriction on oil exports.

Highly documented.! Back to fishing: A gas station in Irondequoit that I frequent, just raised their gas price by $.07/gal.

I would ask on iboats.com

Trad - Are you referring to getting "blown off".....(the lake?)

Wrink - you got it. I misplaced a circle on the first word. Should have been on the fifth space, not the sixth. (i.e hookers) oops, my bad.

I hope we'll be okay. I read in the USF&W article (linked in said article) that the annual cost is $1.4 million and that monitoring has occurred every 2 years for 16 uninterrupted years. (Treatments in Champlain) started prior to that. The graph (in linked USF&WS article) shows a reduction from 99 wounds per 100 fish (2016) to approx 35 per wounds per 100 (2022). They also utilized many barriers along with the lampricides. This is a pretty good reduction and took a long time to achieve. (Even though there were a couple of spikes in the data.) Our monitoring of Big-o shows lower numbers. However, the closing statement in the USF&WS article: "Without sustained sea lamprey control, native fish restoration successes will quickly succumb to sea lamprey parasitism and be lost, along with the social and economic benefits to local communities. Continued support of the Lake Champlain Sea Lamprey Control Program is foundational to the restoration gains made and is critical to sustaining the future of these native fish species in the region." Sea Lamprey Control in the Lake Champlain Basin | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service I hope we'll be okay. I don't know when our major tribs were last treated but I'm very leery of what one or two escaping year classes could do to the fishery. There was no treatment in 2020 and upward wound numbers in 2022. There have also been reports of guys catching fish with wounds and even live lampreys attached.

Spoon - Please accept my apology for interpreting personal hero worship commentary of a political figure as political in nature that deserved pushback. Gator - Someone asked if contributions could be made to sustain the program. I point to article that discussed cost of Lamprey control which would estimate how much private money would be required to keep said program going.

This article from the "journal of Great Lakes Research" (2021) discusses "suppression vs eradication" of the Sea Lamprey. The current program involves suppression. Eradication has a very low probability as eradication programs are never 100%; Lampreys are bust to boom creatures (exponential population growth - like gerbils or Quaggas) and Big-O is open to the sea. If you read the "Cost-Benefit Analysis" section, it states the Great Lakes suppression program has an estimated annual cost of $26 million with eradication approximately 15 times that. Eradication was attempted in Lake Superior years ago but failed. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0380133021000897#s0080 Cost is borne by the Feds, Canada and the bordering states. Timing is critical and the Feds are cutting funds, Canadians are pissed, and states don't know what the heck is going on. Yes, big time sportsman...obviously no reference to the endangered specie he's shot. The protected duck in Italy; the African elephant or the Argail Mountain sheep?

Let's hope this is another "oops." www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/trump-firings-hit-great-lakes-sea-lamprey-program-michigan-forestry

Something to work on after the shoveling done:

Gill-T, Heh, heh, heh. yes they do a good job. A3330 goal is to prevent anyone importing LIVE baitfish into NYS. i.e. LIVE minnows from out of state can't be used in NYS. Any live minnows have to have been from NYS waters. Also adds an enforcement/penalty. It was referred to the state assembly conservation committee. I believe we already have restrictions on live bait fish.

Gill-T, That's the Brandon Road project.

Gator - Thanx for the great info. I hope you're not affected. Both the Senate & house have a "Great Lakes Task Force." NY Senate members are Schumer & Gillibrand. NY House members are Kennedy, Langworthy, Morelli and Tenney. Email addresses follow this format: "morelli.house.gov" Think Spring!

The convict thing would have more than paid for itself and returned a "profit" if the fines had been paid. Those alone would have paid for the carp projects in Illinois and Indiana. So who really lost that money? It's "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." NOT "We the People of the United States, in Order to make profit..." Democracy is a political system whereas Capitalism is an economic system. I suppose you could ask a doctor about scheduling surgery but he'd probably refer you to a better source such as the hospital's scheduler. Having personally observed a few "buyouts," it's usually been the best people that take them. A lot of knowledge is always lost which can only be regained the hard way. How much fishing knowledge have you gained from reading/conversing to members of this site? I agree with "Those stinky fish are a waste." ..... or was the reference to the asian carp?

The carp project is at Brandon Road in Illinois. Illinois was promised $226 million by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law passed by Biden Admin. Last reported (yesterday) halted because federal funds have not been released. Federal gov't and State gov't are two different entities. Although there is some overlapping or "in conjunction with", some confuse which is doing what project and credit/blame one when the other is doing it. We Love Lake Ontario. It's world class fishery has a good payback. But does the Fed or the State deserve the most credit for the fishery we have today? Undoubtably both deserve credit. Feds brought in the first Pacific Salmon stocking after success was shown in Michigan. Unfortunately they've failed with Atlantic Salmon stocking since 1850. Feds reintroduced the Lake Trout which has been somewhat successful, however it doesn't seem to have really caught on with fishermen. Grand prizes in tournaments are always for the largest Salmon; very few fish the SR for Lakers; and I don't know of any charter boat websites that show significant numbers of lakers. (Although probably some.) Feds do Lamprey control throughout the Great Lakes, which IMO is a very good program even though there seems to be some yearly variation. Feds are bringing back the Bloater for which I hope is very successful. Feds monitor water quality. (Though I don't understand how they delisted the Rochester Embayment as an area of concern.) Feds research and publish the Prey fish assessment, for which I'm grateful for. Feds study & try to cure fish diseases, which IMO fully deserves support. Feds control the lake level. (Good luck trying to get out of Braddock's come late August.) Feds have Border Patrol. (Love their boats with 4 -350hp Mercury's on them!) Feds introduced the Asian Carp to the Mississippi and are now blocking funding to keep them out of the Great Lakes in Illinois. State maintains hatchery facility as well as collects eggs, nurtures and stocks the Salmon for which the Fishery is famous for (Browns and Steelhead included). State catches and prosecutes polluters. State sets pollution rules. State builds and maintains public launches as well as fishing access sites. State monitors fishing success and promotes fishing activities. State tries to balance predator-prey ratios. (with Fed data) State setup Pen Rearing to increase stocking survival and returns. State establishes the regulations and catches abusers. State sets up reports on state of the fisheries to fishermen. State is responsive to stakeholders desires (more so). State has been dredging many places along the lake. State has rebuilt many shoreline areas and installed many high-water protections. State tried to prevent invasives by restricting freighter ballast water exchange, but Washington said "NO!." (What's the payback on Fleas and Quaggas?) Both gov'ts deserve credit, but as to what I've listed (and I'm sure there's more) I'd rate today's Fishery 65-35 in favor of the State. BTW: Kathleen Sgmma (President of Western Energy Alliance and poster girl for 'drill, baby drill") has just been nominated as Director of BLM. How long before they have many more oil wells on public land in Utah?