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Missdemeanor

.308 Ammo

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I just went through a bunch of different deer appropriate ammo this summer for my TC Venture 308 and the best groups I got are from Federal Premiums with the 165 grain Sierra GameKing bullets.  Not the cheapest ammo but it shoots fantastic for me.  I always liked the Hornady custom 150 grain with the SST bullets but they don't seem to make it anymore so I went looking for something else.  I didn't care for the Superformance or the American Whitetail Hornady makes.  Corelokts and Winchesters grouped OK but not like these Federals and these bullets should expand nicely. 

Edited by slipbob

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Factory loads can get expensive quick trying to find an accurate load that has the terminal performance your looking for. Do you know anyone who can hand load for you and get the custom load that works with the style bullet you want to use, as for deer and bear in a pointed soft point or round nose 150 or 180 grain like Sierra or Barnes and Winchester could offer?

Many times accuracy has to do with the case length and bullet seat dimensions for a particular bullet and it's weight. If one were to take that rifle and measure it for throat and bullet contact with the rifling you could get a custom hunting round that will outperform any factory round in accuracy for THAT rifle and have a bullet design that works for your hunting situation and game animal. It's a bit of trial and error and needs to be worked up in 5 round lots until that load is found.

I "smoke" a bullet I want to use with candle soot that is high seated in a non charged case of correct dimension of brass length. Then chamber it and examine the soot for rifling contact. I keep adjusting the seating die until I can only just see the soot scratches from the rifling. Then back the seat deeper about 1/8 turn or until the scratching is very very minute on the ogive of the bullet. There is where accuracy comes from with any particular loaded round. A bullet that engages rifling without a jump in the throat on launch, will be the most accurate. However it will need to be monitored for pressure signs like primer backing or cratered, hard ejection etc. Too much rifling contact and you raise pressure even on a mild or moderate load concoction.

Mark

Cent frum my notso smart fone

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Like I said Sierra match kings are more like fmj's. That is why the Geneva convention approved of them for warfare. They are used by snipers and special ops. They do not expand like other match grade or other types of hollow points. Trust me on this, do not use them on game. Any game, unless all you do is head shoot. Its not worth it.

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 Skipjack.....I believe you ....I will have to get some different types of the same grain bullets and give em a try. I intend on getting into reloading, but with the opening day not very far away, I'm probably going to have to try some factory ammo for this year. My intention is to get better glass for next season and get that sucker dialed in and do some long range shooting. I have access to some very long shooting area.

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I believe the Federal 168 gr BTHP are a Sierra Match King target bullet..... hollow points, thin jackets........not a hunting bullet...... expect dramatic expansion without alot of penetration on game..... I think they're a great bullet at the range, but there are better choices out there for a hunting bullet.....

 

Gentlemen,

 

I think the  Federal Matchkings are actually a non-expanding bullet (i.e. like a FMJ) and not an expanding bullet like for small game. Since they act like an FMJ, I believe they are unethical (and possibly illegal) for big game.

 

Matt - I shoot Federal Fusion 150g gr in .308 out of my Browning white gold and they are fantastic.

 

Good luck,

 

Chris

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I never did read the Geneva convention, but I did go to the Sierra website, and they specifically say......

 

MatchKing Bullets: This is the classification for Sierra's pre-eminent target bullets. The driving motivation for the design of each MatchKing bullet is accuracy. These bullets have very thin jackets drawn to an exacting concentricity standard of 0.0003 in maximum variation, and their weight is held to within ± 0.3 grain. All MatchKing have a hollow point design with a very small meplat for high ballistic coefficient. The majority of these bullets have a boat tail shape to further minimize drag and improve ballistic coefficient. They are manufactured to the very highest quality standards.  Their accuracy has been acclaimed worldwide, and they have been used to win more target competitions than all target bullets from other manufacturers combined. Although some of these bullets have been used for hunting, Sierra recommends them only for target shooting.

 

Thin Jackets equals dramatic expansion......... Take it with 168 grains of salt...........???

Edited by Mike Engle

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I never did read the Geneva convention, but I did go to the Sierra website, and they specifically say......

 

MatchKing Bullets: This is the classification for Sierra's pre-eminent target bullets. The driving motivation for the design of each MatchKing bullet is accuracy. These bullets have very thin jackets drawn to an exacting concentricity standard of 0.0003 in maximum variation, and their weight is held to within ± 0.3 grain. All MatchKing have a hollow point design with a very small meplat for high ballistic coefficient. The majority of these bullets have a boat tail shape to further minimize drag and improve ballistic coefficient. They are manufactured to the very highest quality standards.  Their accuracy has been acclaimed worldwide, and they have been used to win more target competitions than all target bullets from other manufacturers combined. Although some of these bullets have been used for hunting, Sierra recommends them only for target shooting.

 

Thin Jackets equals dramatic expansion......... Take it with 168 grains of salt...........???

 

Hollow Point is a bullet shape used for the MatchKing bullets as well as a number of Varminter, GameKing and Pro-Hunter bullets for hunting. The Hollow Point shape has an opening in the nose, which depending on the use of the bullet, may be designed for complete fragmentation, controlled expansion, or no expansion at all (MatchKing). With the wide range of Hollow Point bullet performance capabilities, proper bullet selection for a particular use is crucial to ensure the desired performance in the field.

 

This is taken directly from the Sierra website Mr. Engle. I'm not sure what this has to do with the Geneva Convention, but it supports my theory that Matchking bullets are not ethical for big game hunting.

 

Be safe in the field,

 

Chris

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I stand corrected.....

 

my experience with HP's and thin jackets has been dramatic expansion......

 

blow up's if you will, and "splashes" on predators.......... complete disintegration upon impact...... I've tried them when actually trying to minimize pelt damage. the theorey being that driven at extreme speeds, the projetile completely disintegrates inside the target..... like with frangibles...... which takes the thin jacket theorey one step further by making the core less stable.....

 

I agree that they are unethical in most circumstances..... as are FMJ's.....

 

Good luck, have fun, be safe.......

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Guys it's all in the name of the bullet Matchking meaning it's a match bullet for target practice.  Most off the shelf boxes will have a "recommended" animal on the side.  If there is one for this bullet I would venture a guess it has a bullseye on the side of the box or a prairie dog.  When I get home I will look at my Sierra reloading manual and tell you exactly what that bullet should be used for but in my experience anything with "Match" in the name means target bullet.

 

I would get something in the 170-180 range for that gun, it will be great when taking a deer or bear.  

 

Generally speaking the lighter the bullet the smaller the game.  

Edited by Chas0218

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Rules of Geneva convention state you can not use expanding bullets in warfare. But Sierra mk hpbt is allowed. Just look at the tip then at other hollow points you will see. The hole is only there for the process of making them nothing more.

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By the way I never read it either, but that's what my c.o. told me when I mentioned using them 20 year's ago. But like everything, that changed in time.

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Those rules were like telling us we could only have 7 rounds in our legally owned firearm and the criminals too...riiight! I had friends who put the X in the tip of fmj 5.56 to even the so called playing field with sub humans who could care less about rules.

Anyway. ..sigh...Matt you will find the right load and if your looking for sub minute of angle you will need a specific hand load to consistently do that. You should be able to get 5 rounds under an inch probably two at 100 yards with a factory load and that will be the best you can do from the shelf.

Cent frum my notso smart fone

Edited by skipper19

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For what its worth..... I shoot a 7mm08 and use the winchester silver ballistic tip rounds in 140 grain. Accurate round. Just harvested a doe and butchered her. The expansion of the round is very impressive.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

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For what its worth..... I shoot a 7mm08 and use the winchester silver ballistic tip rounds in 140 grain. Accurate round. Just harvested a doe and butchered her. The expansion of the round is very impressive.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

Those are a nosler bullet. Extremely expensive, compared to other over the shelf ammo but if they shoot well then it is worth the money.

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I tried a pile of different factory rounds. I went back to the Remington Core Lokt 180 gr. I was able to get them to hold a decent accurate 3 shot group. Went out Opening day and shot a Donkey Doe.....(Let a bunch of scrub bucks go). Shoulder shot at 150 yards and she fell like a stone....The Remington 180's did a brutal job on her.....Im going to put in some major bench time this summer and figure out the best grain and type of bullet my gun likes.....Thanks guys....

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Be sure to clean that gun really good at the end of the season or after you break in the barrel with some copper dissolving agent.  My buddy has a Savage 111 and he wants me to reload for him because his groups are maybe 2" at 100 yards and open up to 8" at 200. I have a feeling his barrel is fouled.  He was shooting winchester supremes and I guessing that plastic anti-fouling plating has fouled up his barrel badly.

Just an update he cleaned his barrel REALLY good and now is grouping 200 yard shots together at 2".  It sounds like he still has some cleaning to to do but is a lot better now.

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I do a fair amount of practical long range white tail hunting. For this task I use a Savage 11 Long Range Hunter special in 308. It's paired w/ Leupold optics. The rifle likes the Hornady 168 grain Amax Superformance Match rounds. My shots are typically 350-450 yds and the deer are generally DRT.

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I use 150 Grain Coreloks in my 270.  They are the cheapest ammo that I could buy.  Switched to using the Coreloks after seeing the success that my buddies had with these in their 30-06 s.  More expensive is not always better.  I have shot numerous deer with the coreloks and they work.  

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